BoxRec

ScottDetonator wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:Maloney could have got Tom Dallas to 25-0 by now if he'd have kept matching him against tumbling latvians instead of stepping up the quality of opposition, but ultimately what would have been the point ?

I partly agree with you but surely there are plus points in building a fighter such as to gain more experience with fights and decent sparring, gain confidence, build a bigger fan base and make more money. Look what happened to Dallas after he got thrown in against Price. It totally shattered him as a fighter.

Not everyone will be a world champion.

Agreed. I always thought the general idea was a gradual step up in class, and Friday's fall guy was abysmal. I appreciate you can't always get an incrementally better opponent that the previous one, and I also appreciate that no harm is done to the prospect's development if the occasional bum gets blown away in dramatic fashion. My point with Cornish is that the focus seems to be on padding out his record. I may well be wrong, its just my opinion. Billy Nelson's identified a lot of technical shortcomings with Cornish and if it was as easy as lining up a load of bums then every fighter could be world champ. Learning is done in testing fights against opponents who will fight back and try to win. Is Maloney doing Cornish any good putting him in against inept imports with records like 7-22 and 4-18-3 ? Accepted, facing bums is part of the process but Cornish fought guys with those records last year, and this year he's dropped by a 40 year old Portuguese loser, so is he really being developed and is he really improving from fight to fight or are they just padding out his record ?

I'm not knocking the guy and I'm not on my soapbox saying they're getting it badly wrong with him. I just think a 14-0 heavyweight prospect who's that big should be matched better at this point in his career, regardless of his amateur inexperience and even if he is Scottish.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

ScottDetonator wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:Maloney could have got Tom Dallas to 25-0 by now if he'd have kept matching him against tumbling latvians instead of stepping up the quality of opposition, but ultimately what would have been the point ?

I partly agree with you but surely there are plus points in building a fighter such as to gain more experience with fights and decent sparring, gain confidence, build a bigger fan base and make more money. Look what happened to Dallas after he got thrown in against Price. It totally shattered him as a fighter.

Not everyone will be a world champion.

Dallas would never hace been a world champion, but Price was far too big of a step for him, but fair play to Tom for taking the fight and to Uncle Frank for putting it on.

After Zack Page, Dallas needed a lot more learning fights.

Na he just wasnt good enough.

Dallas would never hace been a world champion, but Price was far too big of a step for him, but fair play to Tom for taking the fight and to Uncle Frank for putting it on.

After Zack Page, Dallas needed a lot more learning fights.[/quote]

He was thrown to the wolves against Price but I seem to remember sky put a gun to Maloney's head and he was pressured to matching his two unbeaten heavies after a late withdrawal for Price. Or something like that. I couldn't see the sense in the fight, and I think Maloney felt the same way.

After Dallas fought Page, yep they should have taken some more learning fights and maybe gone for a rematch a year later to test his development.

Cornish has zero input into who he's fighting at this juncture. To say he's not learning from these fights is ridiculous. The fact that he was dropped by a big left hook is in itself a superb lesson. There are plenty of British heavyweights who are without titles. It's a question as to whether they remain active and are willing to spar/fight.

And as for individuals having some kind of super powered ability to identify technical weaknesses in a fighter, news flash.........it isn't rocket science FFS. As I have said before, the list of prominent fighters who could be added to the 'technically deficient' roll call are vast in number.

It's how to go about minimising the prevelance of any such deficiency during training and ultimately during the fight that counts.

Cornishes full potential will be realised, not sacrificed for the sceptics.

Did I read a suggestion in this thread that Tommy Gilmour doesn't know what he's doing? He's certainly managed to get title fights for many of his fighters down through the years and I certainly wouldn't put money on Cornish NOT eventually getting a British title contest down the line.

dalcumly wrote:Did I read a suggestion in this thread that Tommy Gilmour doesn't know what he's doing? He's certainly managed to get title fights for many of his fighters down through the years and I certainly wouldn't put money on Cornish NOT eventually getting a British title contest down the line.

What would be interesting is see what percentage of Tommys fighters say in the last 5 years have won there first attempt at say the British title I'd bet it's pretty low because yes there's no doubt he can get your title shot but your generally the opponent the same has what Gary will be IF he actually reaches that level.
Don't be fooled my friend,I suggested Tommy's not the best judge of reading a fight,just my opinion of coarse

naturalmass wrote:Cornish has zero input into who he's fighting at this juncture. To say he's not learning from these fights is ridiculous. The fact that he was dropped by a big left hook is in itself a superb lesson. There are plenty of British heavyweights who are without titles. It's a question as to whether they remain active and are willing to spar/fight.

And as for individuals having some kind of super powered ability to identify technical weaknesses in a fighter, news flash.........it isn't rocket science FFS. As I have said before, the list of prominent fighters who could be added to the 'technically deficient' roll call are vast in number.

It's how to go about minimising the prevelance of any such deficiency during training and ultimately during the fight that counts.

Cornishes full potential will be realised, not sacrificed for the sceptics.

Mate no doubt your a friend of Gary's but please watch him fight and spot the flaws,bad balance,low hands,chin in the air,poor feet work.
please remember the guy he fought can't punch at that weight and put Gary down,who was more surprised by the knock down Gary or the opponent it was hard to tell.
Gary needs bundles of quality sparring and would do well to base himself in a top gym in London were he will get just that,otherwise the lights will be turned out

JimJim2009 wrote:Fighting guys 5ft10" and 16 stone he could be 100-0 and still not ready for domestic honours

Billy, a serious question - if Cornish's camp asked you to train him, would you ? I don't think a Scottish heavyweight has ever gone unbeaten into double figures, and he must be doing something right to get to 14-0 even against bums. Nobody can question your credentials and credibility as a trainer, would you take him on ?[/quote]No

Like I say Billy, anyone with an interest in boxing can spot flaws. It's irradicating said flaws that will be the primary exercise. Bundles of quality sparring indeed. We are on the hunt.

naturalmass wrote:Like I say Billy, anyone with an interest in boxing can spot flaws. It's irradicating said flaws that will be the primary exercise. Bundles of quality sparring indeed. We are on the hunt.

I would presume you're actually involved in the coaching of Gary with your username, probably his pad-man/strength and conditioning coach.

Does Gary still work full-time? How understanding is Gary's work towards potential sparring trips? It's been mentioned on numerous occasions about the opportunities to go work with the Klitschko's in their training camps but nothing has ever materialised.

It'll be near on impossible to get decent sparring to make the trip north to Inverness unless you can find a suitable backer willing to put up the money to accommodate the fighter.

Lots of food for thought indeed.

Aye that's me. No problem getting time to travel. Last sparring trip was with David Price, before that John Lewis Dickenson. It's happening and the quest continues. Cheers Moose? ;)

Best of luck with it all Naturalmass, I'm just a boxing fan spouting off random thoughts on a forum

Billy, a serious question - if Cornish's camp asked you to train him, would you ? I don't think a Scottish heavyweight has ever gone unbeaten into double figures, and he must be doing something right to get to 14-0 even against bums. Nobody can question your credentials and credibility as a trainer, would you take him on ?[/quote]No[/quote]


Just curious Billy, and I know its none of my business, but is it for political reasons that you wouldn't train him ?

I'd have thought you might be interested in training a raw heavyweight who's a fellow scot, for the sake of scottish boxing. 20 years ago english heavyweights were considered a joke outside of europe, but a lot has happened since then. scotland doesn't seem to have produced any heavyweight of note.. ever. I know its a small country and all that, but if I were a scot and I was watching a raw heavyweight like Cornish I'd really want you to train him. I realise its a very simplistic thing to say but there you go

JimJim2009 wrote:Billy, a serious question - if Cornish's camp asked you to train him, would you ? I don't think a Scottish heavyweight has ever gone unbeaten into double figures, and he must be doing something right to get to 14-0 even against bums. Nobody can question your credentials and credibility as a trainer, would you take him on ?

No[/quote]


Just curious Billy, and I know its none of my business, but is it for political reasons that you wouldn't train him ?

I'd have thought you might be interested in training a raw heavyweight who's a fellow scot, for the sake of scottish boxing. 20 years ago english heavyweights were considered a joke outside of europe, but a lot has happened since then. scotland doesn't seem to have produced any heavyweight of note.. ever. I know its a small country and all that, but if I were a scot and I was watching a raw heavyweight like Cornish I'd really want you to train him. I realise its a very simplistic thing to say but there you go[/quote]I wouldnt train a Tommy Gimour fighter mate, were not on the same wavelength lol

I wouldnt train a Tommy Gimour fighter mate, were not on the same wavelength lol[/quote]#

Well thats a straight answer !

If I were Cornish, after Friday night's fight I would ask myself if I'd go further with Gilmour as my manager or Nelson as my trainer. No disrepect to Cornish's current trainers is intended.

Finally saw Cornish fight. Considering he had only 8 or 9 amateur contests, he looks like a major work in progress. He showed a few good things, particularly some power in his right, but he does carry his hands low and he definitely needs to work on his left jab. Too many novice pros fail to work behind their jab. Heavyweights have always been known to take longer to develop. It shows the shallowness of the weight class that anyone with 14 or 15 fights is having success against C-level opponents. I mean, look at 40-year olds still being competitive in what, more than any other sport, is a young man's game. Very sad.

Cap