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Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 11:59
by Rover
loaded_gloves wrote:Rover wrote:BarryWashington wrote:Cooper with better management and training staff probably could have been a much more remembered fighter. For instance even if I had trained him I would have done a better job with managing his weight and progressing his cardio and foot work, dude was so dangerous early in fights, but, always had a poor gas tank.
Remind me, what was Cooper's best win?
He knocked out Orlin Norris who was the top 10 ranked NABF champ at the time, and very good. His best performance was probably his 12 rd punch out with an in-shape Ray Mercer. He came off the floor to bust Mercer's jaw in a world class war. He had Michael Moorer down thrice in a thriller. He had Holyfield in bigger trouble than Tyson or Lewis could ever get him in. He was dangerous on his night.
Of course, he wasn't 16-0 with a paper title he only defended in his hometown, so many of the Boxrec generation would automatically dismiss him as an easy opponent.
Ah, so it was indeed heavyweight Orlin Norris. That was his best win.
I've seen him fight many times.
Cooper was a very good LOSER.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 12:01
by Rover
loaded_gloves wrote:Rover wrote:Randall did not best Chavez twice. I had Chavez ahead 76-75 at the time of the stoppage in Fight 2. And Randall didn't even have a belt when Oscar fought Chavez.
If you had Randall ahead you are in a tiny minority. Refer back to the media the time.
Randall didn't have a belt when Oscar fought chavez. Your point being? That doesn't make the worldwide media opinion that he bested Chavez twice redundant does it? So Chavez really cannot be considered the top dog when Oscar fought him.
Rover wrote:As for Holyfield, if you count Cooper as being matched tough, Chavez counts. Was Czyz a tough opponent? How about Vaughn Bean?
That's not the point. Cooper is just an example of how some of Holyfield's scant few lesser opponents being far more dangerous than many people's wins over 25-0 alpha titlists who couldn't fight. It was a throwaway point at the end.
1. I was speaking for myself, not "worldwide media."
2. Which media? And don't cite American media, as Randall was an American fighter.
3. Randall didn't have a belt because he'd lost it to Coggi.
4. Regarding Cooper, he was a good loser. When a guy's best win in his career is heavyweight Orlin Norris, says it all.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 12:04
by Rover
loaded_gloves wrote:I'm starting to understand why so many posters make full length threads mocking this guy 'Rover'.
Wow, what a troll.
Why? Because I had Chavez up a point over Randall in the second fight? Or because I dare to put little value in a win over a career loser of almost every big fight he ever was in, with the exception of a win over heavyweight Orlin Norris?
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 12:22
by Rover
BarryWashington wrote:I said if he had better management he could have been remembered better due to his power. Talking in strictly hypothetical.
Oh, I know. I wasn't taking a position on that either way. I was discussing with loaded_gloves what he actually accomplished in his career, which pretty much consists of a bunch of losses to top heavies--except for Orlin Norris.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 12:37
by Controversial
loaded_gloves wrote:Rover wrote:BarryWashington wrote:
Of course, he wasn't 16-0 with a paper title he only defended in his hometown, so many of the Boxrec generation would automatically dismiss him as an easy opponent.
Do you honestly think DLH didn't have a tough resume?
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 12:39
by Rover
I detest DLH but concede he had one. It isn't that complicated--except for some.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 12:43
by SaadOffTheDeck
loaded_gloves wrote:Rover wrote:Randall did not best Chavez twice. I had Chavez ahead 76-75 at the time of the stoppage in Fight 2. And Randall didn't even have a belt when Oscar fought Chavez.
If you had Randall ahead you are in a tiny minority. Refer back to the media the time.
Randall didn't have a belt when Oscar fought chavez. Your point being? That doesn't make the worldwide media opinion that he bested Chavez twice redundant does it? So Chavez really cannot be considered the top dog when Oscar fought him.
Rover wrote:As for Holyfield, if you count Cooper as being matched tough, Chavez counts. Was Czyz a tough opponent? How about Vaughn Bean?
That's not the point. Cooper is just an example of how some of Holyfield's scant few lesser opponents being far more dangerous than many people's wins over 25-0 alpha titlists who couldn't fight. It was a throwaway point at the end.
Randall was clearly beating Chavez, and that was as blatant a display of corruption as I've ever seen when the corner was clearly notified that the decision was in the bag and Julio should quit.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 13:08
by Rover
What exactly was said to Chavez's corner?
Exact quote, please.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 13:09
by SaadOffTheDeck
Rover wrote:What exactly was said to Chavez's corner?
Exact quote, please.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 13:11
by Rover
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rover wrote:What exactly was said to Chavez's corner?
Exact quote, please.
In other words, you have nothing, just like with Richard Steele and Don King. Typical conspiracy theorist.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 13:16
by SaadOffTheDeck
Rover wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rover wrote:What exactly was said to Chavez's corner?
Exact quote, please.
In other words, you have nothing, just like with Ricdhard Steele and Don King. Typical conspiracy theorist.
Typical Rover, if you didn't hear it then it never happened. This would also be Richard Steele & Don King little buddy.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 13:21
by Rover
In other words, you have nothing besides your pathetic conspiracy theories.
Prove your charge.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 14:14
by Bricks
One of the strongest candidates at the b level below the elite was LLOYD HONEYGHAN.
Check out his run of
Gianfranco Rosi (future IBF champ who would make 19 defences)
Sylvestor Mittee (was top 5 at the time in world)
Don Curry ( p4p no 1)
Johhny Bumphus (former champ)
Maurice Blocker (Future champ)
Gene Hatcher
Jorge Vaca x 2
Yung Kil Cheung
Marlon Starling
Mark Breland
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 14:19
by Rover
mugabi wrote:One of the strongest candidates at the b level below the elite was LLOYD HONEYGHAN.
Check out his run of
Gianfranco Rosi (future IBF champ who would make 19 defences)
Sylvestor Mittee (was top 5 at the time in world)
Don Curry ( p4p no 1)
Johhny Bumphus (former champ)
Maurice Blocker (Future champ)
Gene Hatcher
Jorge Vaca x 2
Yung Kil Cheung
Marlon Starling
Mark Breland
Not bad at all.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 14:21
by King Carlos
I'm pretty sure frankenfrank considers Orlin Norris one of his all time top 10 pound for pound.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 14:23
by Expug
Scrap Iron Johnson lotta tough fights. A respected guy.
Foreman
Liston
Frazier
Quarry
Lyle
Spencer
Machen
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 14:41
by Rover
King Carlos wrote:I'm pretty sure frankenfrank considers Orlin Norris one of his all time top 10 pound for pound.
Tell me you're joking.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:11
by King Carlos
Rover wrote:King Carlos wrote:I'm pretty sure frankenfrank considers Orlin Norris one of his all time top 10 pound for pound.
Tell me you're joking.
That's Frank for ya.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:20
by SaadOffTheDeck
He was an underrated fighter.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:22
by Rover
King Carlos wrote:Rover wrote:King Carlos wrote:I'm pretty sure frankenfrank considers Orlin Norris one of his all time top 10 pound for pound.
Tell me you're joking.
That's Frank for ya.
Glad he hasn't been around lately. He also argued that Leo Gamez might be greater than Wilfred Benitez, even though he's seen one Gamez fight even though many are available.
Speaking of fighters matched tough and Benitez, I'd say fighting Antonio Cervantes at 17 is being matched tough.
He also fought Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Palomino, etc.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 15:43
by King Carlos
Benitez was given the business his entire life.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 18:39
by Controversial
Surprised no one has mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 19:50
by Rover
Controversial wrote:Surprised no one has mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard
Good call.
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 19:54
by MEISINGER
Controversial wrote:Surprised no one has mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard
i will only mention leonard when it is in negative light
i am a hater
no it was a good call leonard had a hell of a resume
but i am still a hater
Re: Fighters Who Were Matched Tough Their Whole Career.
Posted: 26 Mar 2013, 19:56
by Rover
MEISINGER wrote:Controversial wrote:Surprised no one has mentioned Sugar Ray Leonard
i will only mention leonard when it is in negative light
i am a hater
no it was a good call leonard had a hell of a resume
but i am still a hater