BoxRec

Trolls out in force here these days. Used to be the intelligent forum, this one.

The difference is numerous people in this thread have provided salient, intelligent examples of the greater talent winning out over the bigger man. This is especially relevant when the bigger man in question has - without being as disrespectful to fighters as you are - poor stamina, a poor chin, no history of getting up off the floor to win, and apparently no plan B if he doesn't smoke you early.

The fact that you can watch and not see the skill of Floyd Patterson, and that you cannot shift your narrow focus from weight & height despite all these counter arguments, says it all. In fact, it says it all without having to resort to name calling or using any of these emoticons you love so much.

loaded_gloves wrote:The difference is numerous people in this thread have provided salient, intelligent examples of the greater talent winning out over the bigger man. This is especially relevant when the bigger man in question has - without being as disrespectful to fighters as you are - poor stamina, a poor chin, no history of getting up off the floor to win, and apparently no plan B if he doesn't smoke you early.

The fact that you can watch and not see the skill of Floyd Patterson, and that you cannot shift your narrow focus from weight & height despite all these counter arguments, says it all. In fact, it says it all without having to resort to name calling or using any of these emoticons you love so much.

How fricking ancient do you have to be to convinced Floyd could have prospered in the modern era? :)

foxy, I had indeed forgotten that "we are not talking about someone as athletic as Jones" when we speak of Floyd.

As well as the gulf between their opponents.

foxy01 wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:foxy, I had indeed forgotten that "we are not talking about someone as athletic as Jones" when we speak of Floyd.

As well as the gulf between their opponents.

I can only assume you mean the Gulf of Mexico, as NO ONE could be stupid enough to put the WBA's pet dog, and class in the same paragraph.

That said I'd also take him to destroy the little Patterson, plus David Haye, and come to that the majority of Heavy title holders since Liston.

Out of curiosity, which ones since Liston do you think could have beaten Sanders? Obviously Rahman and Tubbs, but there must have been others as well. Oh wait, that's the wrong Tubbs.

Anyway, who else since Liston takes out the Sniper?

What an ugly thread. Corrie Sanders..........

he was absolutely the best Corey/Corrie Sanders HW of all time.

Rahman Amen.

Stop avoiding the question Foxy.

Who does beat Corrie Sanders since Patterson?

Using your logic, it takes a man who is 6'3 and 250lbs or higher to beat him.

So, John Tate squashes him but he massacres Larry Holmes. Applying your own logic presented in this thread, Corrie Sanders is the favourite over virtually every single heavyweight champion until Lewis and the K Brothers. Wladimir, using your logic, demolishes him.

loaded_gloves wrote:Stop avoiding the question Foxy.

Who does beat Corrie Sanders since Patterson?

Using your logic, it takes a man who is 6'3 and 250lbs or higher to beat him.

So, John Tate squashes him but he massacres Larry Holmes. Applying your own logic presented in this thread, Corrie Sanders is the favourite over virtually every single heavyweight champion until Lewis and the K Brothers. Wladimir, using your logic, demolishes him.

Well actually Bonecrusher was quite a bit bigger than Sanders, and also had pretty quick hands. Probably slightly slower than Sanders, but Bone was all muscle and actually fought quite a few top HWs, with wins over a few of them.

foxy01 wrote:I'm saying you could make a case for any Heavy title holder since and including Liston to beat Sanders.

But it won't be a physically weak, sh!t chinned, static, east to hit, little 195 pounder like Patterson

If that isn't clear enough for you, what is?

Yes, that's a very clear statement. Leon Spinks could beat The Sniper, but Patterson has no chance. Thanks for the clarification.

Patterson was knocked down 19 times in his career I've read. Fair enough he got back up 17 of those times, but still would anyone put their house on him beating Corey Sanders? Lol

polecateddy wrote:Patterson was knocked down 19 times in his career I've read. Fair enough he got back up 17 of those times, but still would anyone put their house on him beating Corey Sanders? Lol

I certainly wouldn't bet the house, no. But to say Patterson had no chance is pretty silly considering the fact that Sanders was the poster boy for one hit wonder HWs.

foxy01 wrote:So Spinks could beat Ali, but he couldn't beat Patterson, eh? I love people clutching at straws when their nationalistic crap is exposed.

I didn't say anything about Patterson beating Spinks. Is this getting too complicated for you to follow?

Well....the more popular sentiment of this rather educated group is that Patterson is MORE LIKELY going to get past Corrie with a win.

Yep Corries big, Yep he's the sniper, Yep he can be cagey, Yep FP gets decked a lot, Yep FP is smaller and....yep....the smart money leans to the smaller faster guy in this case.

I wouldn't bet the house, but I'd bet a few sawbucks.

polecateddy wrote:Patterson was knocked down 19 times in his career I've read. Fair enough he got back up 17 of those times, but still would anyone put their house on him beating Corey Sanders? Lol

Knock downs are pretty irrelevant, many of them were of the flash variety in fights he won handily. A more significant stat is that he was stopped five times. Twice by Ali, twice by Liston and once by Ingo. That doesn't leave much hope for a fighter the caliber of Sanders to finish him. Sure he could knock him down, Sonny Banks will always be able to say he floored Ali and Kevin Isaac can say the same about Holmes, beating him is the question at hand. And his hopes aren't high when the main thing his backers are touting is a size advantage.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Patterson was knocked down 19 times in his career I've read. Fair enough he got back up 17 of those times, but still would anyone put their house on him beating Corey Sanders? Lol

Knock downs are pretty irrelevant, many of them were of the flash variety in fights he won handily. A more significant stat is that he was stopped five times. Twice by Ali, twice by Liston and once by Ingo. That doesn't lead much hope for a fighter the caliber of Sanders to finish him. Sure he could knock him down, Sonny Banks will always be able to say he floored Ali and Kevin Isaac can say the same about Holmes, beating him is the question at hand. And his hopes aren't high when the main thing his backers are touting is a size advantage.

You're forgetting his short game and his accuracy with long irons.

When you've suffered a one-punch, clean knockout against the obese, passive non-puncher Nate Tubbs, you're suspect against any top class heavyweight.

When you gas after a few rounds, and look fat even at 225lbs, you're suspect against the bulked up 193lb Roy Jones who whipped Ruiz, let alone the natural, strong, fit 195lb Patterson who handled himself among the heavyweight gods.

To argue against this certainly isn't 'delusional', it just demonstrates very poor powers of comprehension as regards to boxing and its long history. Throw in counter arguments of nationalism and playground namecalling and you have yourself a troll.

I just watched Guillermo tool up a much bigger man.

I know that when any two competent boxers get in the ring, just about anything can happen but the odds just seem long for Corrie who seems to be getting a lot of sentiment in this discussion. Floyd has some very serious skills. Maybe the statement that I take greatest exception to is that Floyd was "static and easy to hit." Was he really?

Floyd's balls got in the way of his brain, but he was quite skilled defensively. It's not like a game plan would be difficult to decipher. Use your speed and box for 5 or 10 minutes until he starts gasping for air and holding his gloves at his knees.....knock the bum out and we'll hit the bar.

What can I say to that? Your right! It's elementary. Thanks for all the fish!

I can now be done with the burden of thinkin' and puzzlin' over this stuff. Now that you're here, I'm just gonna bask in your light for a while, maybe get a tan and enjoy the cool breeze of knowledge blowing in every time you log on.

Can't wait for the next lesson son!

Once you work out the final clumsy kinks of your "unified theory" (which I assume will provide clear answers to all boxing questions, both big and small,) we won't need the akashic record any longer! We can just have us a book burnin' party!

Please forgive me if I chime in now and again, just to "sense the resonance" regarding the fundamental powerful undertow of clarity that you are willing to provide the rest of us!

If you ask me, you are worth perhaps twice (and then some) what you are being paid to provide this enlightenment!

BoxBuzz wrote:What can I say to that? Your right! It's elementary. Thanks for all the fish!

I can now be done with the burden of thinkin' and puzzlin' over this stuff. Now that you're here, I'm just gonna bask in your light for a while, maybe get a tan and enjoy the cool breeze of knowledge blowing in every time you log on.

Can't wait for the next lesson son!

Once you work out the final clumsy kinks of your "unified theory" (which I assume will provide clear answers to all boxing questions, both big and small,) we won't need the akashic record any longer! We can just have us a book burnin' party!

Please forgive me if I chime in now and again, just to "sense the resonance" regarding the fundamental powerful undertow of clarity that you are willing to provide the rest of us!
If you ask me, you are worth perhaps twice (and then some) what you are being paid to provide this enlightenment!

The two positions seem very entrenched now. Its getting boring and circular. I do recall watching Patterson getting bounced all over the place by Ali, who although clearly great wasn't a big puncher. With a peak Sanders - and granted it would have to be the peak version, conditioned for 12 good rounds - I personally would be surprised if Floyd managed to survive the early rounds.

polecateddy wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:What can I say to that? Your right! It's elementary. Thanks for all the fish!

I can now be done with the burden of thinkin' and puzzlin' over this stuff. Now that you're here, I'm just gonna bask in your light for a while, maybe get a tan and enjoy the cool breeze of knowledge blowing in every time you log on.

Can't wait for the next lesson son!

Once you work out the final clumsy kinks of your "unified theory" (which I assume will provide clear answers to all boxing questions, both big and small,) we won't need the akashic record any longer! We can just have us a book burnin' party!

Please forgive me if I chime in now and again, just to "sense the resonance" regarding the fundamental powerful undertow of clarity that you are willing to provide the rest of us!
If you ask me, you are worth perhaps twice (and then some) what you are being paid to provide this enlightenment!

The two positions seem very entrenched now. Its getting boring and circular. I do recall watching Patterson getting bounced all over the place by Ali, who although clearly great wasn't a big puncher. With a peak Sanders - and granted it would have to be the peak version, conditioned for 12 good rounds - I personally would be surprised if Floyd managed to survive the early rounds.

Sanders was never conditioned for 12 rounds, not once in his career. I'm all good with taking a fighter at his best, like Bowe in the first Holyfield fight. Mythical fights certainly aren't about resume. But you can't just invent traits that were nonexistent.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

polecateddy wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:What can I say to that? Your right! It's elementary. Thanks for all the fish!

I can now be done with the burden of thinkin' and puzzlin' over this stuff. Now that you're here, I'm just gonna bask in your light for a while, maybe get a tan and enjoy the cool breeze of knowledge blowing in every time you log on.

Can't wait for the next lesson son!

Once you work out the final clumsy kinks of your "unified theory" (which I assume will provide clear answers to all boxing questions, both big and small,) we won't need the akashic record any longer! We can just have us a book burnin' party!

Please forgive me if I chime in now and again, just to "sense the resonance" regarding the fundamental powerful undertow of clarity that you are willing to provide the rest of us!
If you ask me, you are worth perhaps twice (and then some) what you are being paid to provide this enlightenment!

The two positions seem very entrenched now. Its getting boring and circular. I do recall watching Patterson getting bounced all over the place by Ali, who although clearly great wasn't a big puncher. With a peak Sanders - and granted it would have to be the peak version, conditioned for 12 good rounds - I personally would be surprised if Floyd managed to survive the early rounds.

Sanders was never conditioned for 12 rounds, not once in his career. I'm all good with taking a fighter at his best, like Bowe in the first Holyfield fight. Mythical fights certainly aren't about resume. But you can't just invent traits that were nonexistent.

I would suggest that Sanders was very well conditioned in some of his earlier, less well known fights such as against Johnny Du Plooy back in 1991. He had a long amateur and pro career. In all likelihood his peak was years before the upset of the younger Klitschko.

I got the impression Lennox Lewis had quite a bit of respect for Corrie, and although its generally not recognised I think he gave the big South African a slight swerve. It no doubt helped that Corrie's credibility never recovered from that Nate Tubbs upset, and pundits were inclined not to think too highly of his abilities. Potentially he was in fact the best heavyweight puncher of his generation.

foxy01 wrote:You mentioned Spinks, and ended up with egg on your face because he beat Ali, whereas Patterson didn't. Nothing at all complicated about that. Next time you try to show your so called superior knowledge pick a better example.

You mean when the 197 lb Spinks, who was the same size as a peak Floyd, beat the 224 lb Ali, who was the same size as Sanders and with faster hands than The Sniper? Most wouldn't consider this relevant, but since you brought it up perhaps you would like to comment?

And no, I didn't mention anything about Patterson beating Spinks, I mentioned Spinks because you stated

foxy01 wrote:I'm saying you could make a case for any Heavy title holder since and including Liston to beat Sanders.

Your leap to the following

foxy01 wrote:So Spinks could beat Ali, but he couldn't beat Patterson, eh?

Can only indicate either some type of confusion or perhaps sub standard mental capabilities. Which is it?