BoxRec

hurlock wrote:On paper he has done great things & malinaggi is a master stroke to claim a championship at welter & he can then face a tight at the weight Garcia who is proven I'm under no illusion he is a Henry Armstrong.
My reservations of broner jumping up is that his power gives him a lot of time & his punches are not as quick & stinging as mayweather who is blessed with the best timing I've ever witnessed.
I'm not saying he won't struggle but he defenetly has enough skill to see off paulie imo

Who can compare to Henry Armstrong these days................different era.

Paulie is the taster fight for Broner. Paulie has nothing that can bother Broner. Paulie is way past his best, has no power and i doubt come fight night he will much size advantage, if any at all. Ricky Hatton was a pretty predictable come forward fighter who dealt comfortably with Paulie, so Broner will have no problem. Broner will still have speed and precision and i feel he will carry his power up to 147lbs and mature at the weight. We will learn more about Adrien Broner after the Malignaggi fight.

to put you right about what you said, Hurlock stated that he thought broner was an elite fighter - you replied in the very next post that you agreed with that statement - go back and have a look before claiming you never said any such thing!

so whats it to be? is he an elite fighter (as you said to Hurlock) or isn't he? (as you said to me)

I don't wanna argue with you - just to clear up your views of AB whose talents you analysed so well

misterpunch wrote:to put you right about what you said, Hurlock stated that he thought broner was an elite fighter - you replied in the very next post that you agreed with that statement - go back and have a look before claiming you never said any such thing!

so whats it to be? is he an elite fighter (as you said to Hurlock) or isn't he? (as you said to me)

I don't wanna argue with you - just to clear up your views of AB whose talents you analysed so well

First off, thanks for compliment about the analysis

I should have been more specific when i replied to Hurlock. The part i was referring to was when Hurlock said that he had done well up to this point in his career, but was still a work in progress. I never actually wrote that Broner was an elite fighter myself, though Hurlock included that line in his post. However, i would say that Broner is on the way to being an elite fighter. I think he has to fight a few named fighters of note to gain that title without other people scoffing. I would say that he would have to beat say a Marquez or Bradley before the title of an elite fighte can truely be pronounced.

totally agree - Bradley would be a very good fight

Quixall wrote:

hurlock wrote:On paper he has done great things & malinaggi is a master stroke to claim a championship at welter & he can then face a tight at the weight Garcia who is proven I'm under no illusion he is a Henry Armstrong.
My reservations of broner jumping up is that his power gives him a lot of time & his punches are not as quick & stinging as mayweather who is blessed with the best timing I've ever witnessed.
I'm not saying he won't struggle but he defenetly has enough skill to see off paulie imo

Who can compare to Henry Armstrong these days................different era.

Paulie is the taster fight for Broner. Paulie has nothing that can bother Broner. Paulie is way past his best, has no power and i doubt come fight night he will much size advantage, if any at all. Ricky Hatton was a pretty predictable come forward fighter who dealt comfortably with Paulie, so Broner will have no problem. Broner will still have speed and precision and i feel he will carry his power up to 147lbs and mature at the weight. We will learn more about Adrien Broner after the Malignaggi fight.

Floyd mayweather can compare to Armstrong as paquio & dlh I.e winning championships through the divisions.
& if you really want to be fussy you could say the latter apart from manny grew through the divisions rather the jump up like Roy jones

He has not been tested enough yet. Pauline is an easy touch at welter. I''ll reserve judgement until he fights Mathysse.

hurlock wrote:

Quixall wrote:

hurlock wrote:On paper he has done great things & malinaggi is a master stroke to claim a championship at welter & he can then face a tight at the weight Garcia who is proven I'm under no illusion he is a Henry Armstrong.
My reservations of broner jumping up is that his power gives him a lot of time & his punches are not as quick & stinging as mayweather who is blessed with the best timing I've ever witnessed.
I'm not saying he won't struggle but he defenetly has enough skill to see off paulie imo

Who can compare to Henry Armstrong these days................different era.

Paulie is the taster fight for Broner. Paulie has nothing that can bother Broner. Paulie is way past his best, has no power and i doubt come fight night he will much size advantage, if any at all. Ricky Hatton was a pretty predictable come forward fighter who dealt comfortably with Paulie, so Broner will have no problem. Broner will still have speed and precision and i feel he will carry his power up to 147lbs and mature at the weight. We will learn more about Adrien Broner after the Malignaggi fight.

Floyd mayweather can compare to Armstrong as paquio & dlh I.e winning championships through the divisions.
& if you really want to be fussy you could say the latter apart from manny grew through the divisions rather the jump up like Roy jones

For me they are different era's and i don't think you can make the comparison. Just my opinion.

well , so much for pfp status. way overrated. a younger amir khan did a far more impressive job on paulie. broner is nothing special. just a hype job. three world titles, and none of them worth a fukk. if this guy is the new boxing superstar no wonder boxing is going down the toilet. when he faces a puncher his own size, he s going down. just like khan hes a pure fake. looks great bullying people , but when matched with his peers he will fall to pieces.

ps kell brook would destroy him

He is a very talented boxer and is not as good as he thinks he is. Cotto, Hatton and Khan beat Paulie with more panache and style and showed more class afterward. I do not think that Brook would beat him as Kell is unproven at that level and was life and death with Carson Jones (even accepting the situation/excuses). There are some very good boxers with speed and power at welter and it speaks volumes that Broner went for Paulie who is not the hardest hitter. Broner said he would do this and that to Paulie and he wasn't able to do it; the referee was lenient toward him and the commentary was very biased, he has the advantages and is very good and keeps busy so will be a big draw - Matthyse or Maidana would be an excellent next bout - lets see if he can take a solid punch and what he does then.

bear in mind it was his first fight up at this weight. not a bad win.

but not great either and i think he's going to be the next guzman, great when he had the size advantages, then stuck fighting bigger men due to weight issues. he probably is neither fast enough on his feet, nor a hard enough hitter, to be brilliant up at welter. that was kind of an illusion of brilliance at super feather and lightweight, great for the short time he could make the weight...he'll really have to try and settle into welter, grow into it, get his game right. no, i don't think he can be a superstar. he'll win some TV fights, make a lot of noise and the performances probably will never match the hype from now on.

As soon as he faces a guy who is the same size and can punch he's losing.

As crazy as this may sound I'd maybe back Khan to beat him as well.

Overhyped, always was.

And as much as I like interesting characters this guy is a grade 1 bellend

Wrists wrote:As soon as he faces a guy who is the same size and can punch he's losing.

As crazy as this may sound I'd maybe back Khan to beat him as well.

Overhyped, always was.

And as much as I like interesting characters this guy is a grade 1 bellend

I agree with everything you say

jimcook wrote:well , so much for pfp status. way overrated. a younger amir khan did a far more impressive job on paulie. broner is nothing special. just a hype job. three world titles, and none of them worth a fukk. if this guy is the new boxing superstar no wonder boxing is going down the toilet. when he faces a puncher his own size, he s going down. just like khan hes a pure fake. looks great bullying people , but when matched with his peers he will fall to pieces.

Was Khan coming up two weights when he faced Paulie ?

Broner is still only 23 years of age and he is a three weight three times champion, so i wouldn't say that he was "nothing special". Has Khan achieved what Broner has achieved ? Was he nothing special because he didn't knock out Paulie out ? Paulie is known for his durability and this was a tester fight at 147lbs for Broner. The only thing that Broner did wrong in the fight was to start too slowly which is what he has done in all his fights up to now and he needs to improve on the volume of punches he throws per round. You think that Floyd is the superstar fighter, right ? Look at his fights with Judah and Castillo in their first fight. It seems to me that if a guy has a name and he doesn't knock someone out or god forbid gets hit a few times, then he's over-hyped. Pure fake ? Not a bad achievement so far in his career for a fake. Broner still has to prove himself against the very best in either the 140lbs or 147lbs divisions, but people seem to be hell bent on pushing him off the mountain whilst he tries to get there.

jimcook wrote:well , so much for pfp status. way overrated. a younger amir khan did a far more impressive job on paulie. broner is nothing special. just a hype job. three world titles, and none of them worth a fukk. if this guy is the new boxing superstar no wonder boxing is going down the toilet. when he faces a puncher his own size, he s going down. just like khan hes a pure fake. looks great bullying people , but when matched with his peers he will fall to pieces.

I'll second that.

jimcook wrote:ps kell brook would destroy him

What attributes has Kell Brook got to do that ?

Is he an experienced fighter at world level ? Is he a world chamion ? Has he fought for a world title belt ?

Wrists wrote: As crazy as this may sound I'd maybe back Khan to beat him as well.

Does'nt sound crazy at all, i'd bet heavy on it.

palooka wrote:He is a very talented boxer and is not as good as he thinks he is. Cotto, Hatton and Khan beat Paulie with more panache and style and showed more class afterward. I do not think that Brook would beat him as Kell is unproven at that level and was life and death with Carson Jones (even accepting the situation/excuses). There are some very good boxers with speed and power at welter and it speaks volumes that Broner went for Paulie who is not the hardest hitter. Broner said he would do this and that to Paulie and he wasn't able to do it; the referee was lenient toward him and the commentary was very biased, he has the advantages and is very good and keeps busy so will be a big draw - Matthyse or Maidana would be an excellent next bout - lets see if he can take a solid punch and what he does then.

I think Broner will get this all the time. People convincing themselves that he will lose in a few more fights, just you see, i told you first, type thing. Broner or his team are businessmen, so it's obvious that they would have gone for Paulie. Had enough fo a name, a world title belt to give Broner bargaining power, he was 32 and didn't have any power. You say that Broner wasn't able to do what he said he was going to do, which i take as knocking him out ? Didn't Paulie get stopped on his feet in the Khan and Hatton fights ? This is a durable fighter. Paulie didn't or couldn't do the things he said he was going to do either. Broner walked him down all night. Broner never looked in trouble, he blocked a lot of the shots that Paulie threw at him, but his main weakness is that he starts slow and doesn't do enough work in terms of punch volume in any given round. Broner's main weakness is his work rate. He was supremely accurate and did all the quality work. Paulie looked busy but his percentages landed were poor in comparison. The 117 poinst margin was way out but Broner won that fight clearly in my eyes. Broner still needs to fight the true elite fighters of the division. People talk about "proving" himself by fighting Bradley. The same Bradley who got a gift against Pacquaio and was on the verge of defeat against his last opponent, who's name i can't remember. So is Bradley a busted flush, a hype job ? Boxing is a strange business.

Wrists wrote:As soon as he faces a guy who is the same size and can punch he's losing.

As crazy as this may sound I'd maybe back Khan to beat him as well.

Overhyped, always was.

And as much as I like interesting characters this guy is a grade 1 bellend

What has Khan got to trouble Broner ?

Khan has a weak chin. Khan can't box on the inside. Khan can't box on the back foot. Khan doesn't know how to manourve himself off the ropes. He is one dimensional in how he fights. He doesn't have a defence. Broner is an offensive fighter, he comes forward. He knows how to cut off a ring. He has power and speed and is an excellent counter puncher. He would corner Khan or get him on the ropes. Khan wouldn't know how to deal with that and so would do what he normally does, which is attack and trade. So there he is on the ropes trading with Broner. He may be a bellend, but Khan would be ideal for Broner.

Autobarn wrote:bear in mind it was his first fight up at this weight. not a bad win.

but not great either and i think he's going to be the next guzman, great when he had the size advantages, then stuck fighting bigger men due to weight issues. he probably is neither fast enough on his feet, nor a hard enough hitter, to be brilliant up at welter. that was kind of an illusion of brilliance at super feather and lightweight, great for the short time he could make the weight...he'll really have to try and settle into welter, grow into it, get his game right. no, i don't think he can be a superstar. he'll win some TV fights, make a lot of noise and the performances probably will never match the hype from now on.

He came up two weights, is still maturing as a fighter at 23 years of age. I think people are overlooking the fact that Paulie is a durable fighter. He hasn't been on the canvas many times at all in his career. Was it against Cotto in the second round ? Against Hatton and Khan he was stopped on his feet. So the fact that Broner didn't knock him out or stop him doesn't neccessarily suggest that he doesn't have power at 147lbs. He has time to grow into the division. Mayweather doesn't stop many of his opponents either, but i think that people have concentrated on power as a major weapon for Broner. He is still a work in progress. I noticed a slight change last night. Broner started to use the shoulder defence at the start of the fight, but as it wore on, he only used that defensive style when Paulie threw combination shots. When he came forward, he adopted a more hands high style, so he is learning, because offensively, if you want to be busy with jabs and counters, the shoulder role style with a wide stance doesn't really work. He has relied on this up untill now because he has been convinced he will stop all his opponents. He needs to keep to what he was doing defensive wise in the secon part of the fight, switching from the shoulder to hands high and needs to work more from the jab. He needs to shorten his stance and up his work rate. All these things will make him a better and more all round fighter imo.

Quixall wrote:

jimcook wrote:ps kell brook would destroy him

What attributes has Kell Brook got to do that ?

Is he an experienced fighter at world level ? Is he a world chamion ? Has he fought for a world title belt ?

as paulie said, there are a lot of good guys out there who dont get the opportunities, or are too over the hill by the time they arise , or are simply not given paper champs for soft titles. we already went through all this shit with khan. by the time he had to fight live opponents he has been continually exposed as just another good fighter. get him in with the real top fighters of the divisions and his 0 will disappear. they can all look good against paulie cos of his limited power. id like to see broner against the pacman, he wouldnt last 2 rounds.

Quixall wrote:

Wrists wrote:As soon as he faces a guy who is the same size and can punch he's losing.

As crazy as this may sound I'd maybe back Khan to beat him as well.

Overhyped, always was.

And as much as I like interesting characters this guy is a grade 1 bellend

What has Khan got to trouble Broner ?

Khan has a weak chin. Khan can't box on the inside. Khan can't box on the back foot. Khan doesn't know how to manourve himself off the ropes. He is one dimensional in how he fights. He doesn't have a defence. Broner is an offensive fighter, he comes forward. He knows how to cut off a ring. He has power and speed and is an excellent counter puncher. He would corner Khan or get him on the ropes. Khan wouldn't know how to deal with that and so would do what he normally does, which is attack and trade. So there he is on the ropes trading with Broner. He may be a bellend, but Khan would be ideal for Broner.

Completely agree. Can't see how anyone takes Khan over Broner. I'd put serious wedge on Broner to do him early.

I think the point is that if Broner was as good as some are claiming he is he would have won last night with ease. Khan, Hatton and Cotto all completely dominated Malignaggi. Hatton took him apart at his (i.e. Paulie's) peak and as you note a few posts back this is far from a peak Malignaggi.

I dont think the comparisons with Mayweather against Judah or Castillo quite work either. Castillo was the best LW in the world and on many people's P4P list and Judah, in spite of his surprise loss to Baldomir, was regarded as one of the best welterweights in the world. Malignaggi is no-where near in the class of those two.

Broner is NOT the 2nd coming of anything. Did Paulie break his hand? He did not throw to the head at all.
I had it 114-114.

jimcook wrote:

Quixall wrote:

jimcook wrote:ps kell brook would destroy him

What attributes has Kell Brook got to do that ?

Is he an experienced fighter at world level ? Is he a world chamion ? Has he fought for a world title belt ?

as paulie said, there are a lot of good guys out there who dont get the opportunities, or are too over the hill by the time they arise , or are simply not given paper champs for soft titles. we already went through all this poo with khan. by the time he had to fight live opponents he has been continually exposed as just another good fighter. get him in with the real top fighters of the divisions and his 0 will disappear. they can all look good against paulie cos of his limited power. id like to see broner against the pacman, he wouldnt last 2 rounds.

According to FW, Brook was offered a world title fight two and a half years ago. It's on you tube where he says it. You really think that Broner would only last two rounds with Pacquaio ? On what grounds ? The simple fact is that we don't know how good Broner is going to be until he fights an elite fighter. My point about Bradley highlights this. People say that Bradley is strong at 147lbs and yet he was gifted a decision win against Pacquaio and then nearly got stuffed in that last fight agaisnt a guy a who's name i can't even remember. So is Bradley a busted flush ? or is he still an "elite" fighter ? Style's make fights and Pacquaio has suddenly stopped being able to roll over guys since the Hatton win. He couldn't dent Bradley, so why would he dent Broner ? I'm not saying Broner would win, but all this "he will be gone in two rounds" is way out imo. As fro Brook, forget it. He's have all on beating Alexander if or when he gets the chance. Khan would dismantle Brook and that is saying something.