BoxRec

This fight would be a lot bigger if Groves had a title to make it a unification fight.

It's too early, this fight should be built up first.

the mando is a big fight itself - ticks all the boxes, this fight.

british boxing loves a high profile domestic.

won't be hard to hype it up and build serious interest.

if it's even fairly competitive, and does well, then degale would also be an option, one day.

if you can make a big event at home, do it. if you can enhance carl's pulling power, then he brings more to negotiations vs overseas fighters.

It's much better than Burns vs Crolla, but it is still an underwhelming opponent for Froch.

Doesn't Groves' team fancy him against Bika or Stieglitz? If they don't then that would be their most obvious motivation for making this fight now, instead of after beating one of those two first and making Froch vs Groves a much bigger fight.

Did Groves join Matchroom on a 3 fight deal? I seem to remember someone suggesting his fight in March against Balmaceda was fight one, he'd be on the undercard of Froch Vs. Kessler and his final fight of the deal would see him headline a show in September.

Another interesting thing I remember was the Bunce Boxing Hour that was on after Groves joined Matchroom. Warren was in the studio and suggested he is still on good terms with Groves and Booth. Warren went on to say he has agreed to speak with Groves again in September about his boxing future.

Yes - Eddie Hearn confirmed when Groves signed that it was only a short term deal; and would be reviewed/renewed after those first few (3 from memory not including the Balmaceda fight on BN).

Means we've got more chance of seeing this fight IMO since Groves is free to go elsewhere and demand the fight gets made, or he fights for the vacant title should Froch vacate.

Edit: Not Balmaceda - whoever the fella was he knocked over in Germany two weeks after Balmaceda...

If the fight gets made then there's no way that Eddie won't have options should Groves win.

Parson Cross wrote:If the fight gets made then there's no way that Eddie won't have options should Groves win.

Booth would have to agree to options first though surely.

I'll take groves to win on points

I can't think of any fight of this magnitude put on by any UK Promotor that didn't involve options for the three fights after.
Of course those options would have to be agreed but with respect do you think any of the vested interests want this going to purse bids ?

James,
Easy tiger ! How much do you think Carl's purse would have to be for this fight ?
How much do you think Groves purse will have to be ?
I haven't said it will be ppv but if its just a Matchroom date on Sky then it loses money for the Promotor. If Eddie wants to do that fair enough.

Parson Cross wrote:I can't think of any fight of this magnitude put on by any UK Promotor that didn't involve options for the three fights after.
Of course those options would have to be agreed but with respect do you think any of the vested interests want this going to purse bids ?

James,
Easy tiger ! How much do you think Carl's purse would have to be for this fight ?
How much do you think Groves purse will have to be ?
I haven't said it will be ppv but if its just a Matchroom date on Sky then it loses money for the Promotor. If Eddie wants to do that fair enough.

Quite a bit less than a million each with Carl getting quite a bit more. I don't know enough about how much Carl earned for say the Bute or Yusaf Mack fights to judge. But I'd imagine both guys would earn around about what Carl did for those kind of fights, he certainly wasn't getting the 2-3 million quid that he got for the Kessler fight. And it would be able to be made in the O2 arena or somewhere that size because Carl now has that kind of fanbase and Groves also has his following in London too. So I don't see Matchroom making a loss on this bill even without PPV.

Obviously if it went to purse bids there would be no debate about what each guy is earning.

James,
Let's say the joint purse is 1.5 mill. Add on the cost of the undercard the cost of the arena ancillary costs etc. Now take off ticket revenue and Sky fee and whichever way you play it its a loss. If Eddie wants to do that great but if he can swing ppv he'd be daft not to.

Parson Cross wrote:James,
Let's say the joint purse is 1.5 mill. Add on the cost of the undercard the cost of the arena ancillary costs etc. Now take off ticket revenue and Sky fee and whichever way you play it its a loss. If Eddie wants to do that great but if he can swing ppv he'd be daft not to.

sponsorship aswell.

G0mez wrote:Slightly too soon for Groves in my opinion.

I would have liked George to have a couple of stern tests before Froch, because fighters like Noe Gonzales is certainly no preparation. Groves has skills and power, but lacks experience on how to pace himself against someone like Carl. A combination of nerves and not pacing himself right, would see him unravel after the half-way point and he will walk onto a heavy shot.

Another consideration - if Matchroom don't tie up a deal for this fight - then anyone could bid for this fight as it will be thrown out for purse bids.

You could see Allegedly Channel or Channel Five throw their bid into the hat.

x2

my thoughts exactly why try and hurry groves hes not ready..why arent they making oothuiezen or rodriquez mandatory?

Parson Cross wrote:If the fight gets made then there's no way that Eddie won't have options should Groves win.

That's what I think too however that's only on the basis terms can be agreed without the need to go to purse bids.

We know is there is a 3 fight deal between Groves and Matchroom. Warren, Groves and Booth have all come out stating the split was amicable and all parties are on good terms. So lets say, hypothetically, Groves has not enjoyed his time at Matchroom and is thinking of meeting with Warren in September to move back to his stable. Groves could play hardball with Matchroom, when negotiating fight terms, forcing the fight to go to purse bids. Warren then comes in with a massive bid to stage the fight and wins promotional rights. Froch refuses to fight on a Warren promoted show on allegedly and drops the title. Warren sweet talks the IBF into keeping the fight open with Groves facing their next available opponent. Groves picks up the win, leaves Matchroom with Carl's belt, and re-joins Warren. Groves then has bragging rights that Froch ducked him. It then becomes very easy for Warren to make Groves Vs. Stieglitz in a unification fight.

Okay I admit that scenario is very unlikely, but not impossible. Adam Booth is very much a fan of low risk high reward situations. This would allow Groves, should he win, to become one of the very top Super Middleweights within 6 months. Due to allegedly deal with Sauerland fights against the likes of Arthur Abraham and Mikkel Kessler would be very easy to make.

Newport Daz wrote:http://news.boxrec.com/news/2013/ibf-or ... ace-groves

http://www.BS.com/carl-froch-v ... ibf--67235

Well, Froch said he'd fight Groves if it was ordered. So there you go. I personally like this fight and you can guarantee if it happens it'll be another PPV that Eddie loves.

I think it'll be close for a few rounds but Froch will grind groves down in the later rounds for a stoppage win.

Is the IBF taking lessons from the WBA on how to burn a fighter out? How many 12 round fights do they want Froch to fight in one year?

Parson Cross wrote:James,
Let's say the joint purse is 1.5 mill. Add on the cost of the undercard the cost of the arena ancillary costs etc. Now take off ticket revenue and Sky fee and whichever way you play it its a loss. If Eddie wants to do that great but if he can swing ppv he'd be daft not to.

Like I say, I don't think the joint purse would be 1.5mill, I don't even think it would be 1 million. And there is more income than just the seating and sky tv, there would be income from sponsorship and foreign tv as well. Not saying it would be Showtime or HBO in America or huge channels in other European countries but they would come in with money.

I'm not a boxing promoter, but I'm quite willing to accept that Eddie Hearn knows how to make a profit on this bill.

jameswilson wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:James,
Let's say the joint purse is 1.5 mill. Add on the cost of the undercard the cost of the arena ancillary costs etc. Now take off ticket revenue and Sky fee and whichever way you play it its a loss. If Eddie wants to do that great but if he can swing ppv he'd be daft not to.

Like I say, I don't think the joint purse would be 1.5mill, I don't even think it would be 1 million. And there is more income than just the seating and sky tv, there would be income from sponsorship and foreign tv as well. Not saying it would be Showtime or HBO in America or huge channels in other European countries but they would come in with money.

I'm not a boxing promoter, but I'm quite willing to accept that Eddie Hearn knows how to make a profit on this bill.

He does. He will put it on PPV!

jameswilson wrote: I'm not a boxing promoter, but I'm quite willing to accept that Eddie Hearn knows how to make a profit on this bill.

SKY Sports are broadcasting a Premiership game and Football League game free to air on the 17th August to showcase SKY Sports and their football coverage. The games will be available to almost ever home in the UK via Freeview, Freesat, SKY and Virgin Media.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013 ... ague-match

Maybe to push SKY's coverage of boxing Froch Vs. Groves could be broadcast 1 month later in the same fashion. The fight would become the most viewed ever via the SKY platform. The reach alone of the fight on that day should push up advertising revenue significantly. What better way for Eddie to showcase 2 of his fighters, Matchroom Sports and SKY's boxing coverage than to make it free to the whole of the UK?

mickey1975 wrote:

jameswilson wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:James,
Let's say the joint purse is 1.5 mill. Add on the cost of the undercard the cost of the arena ancillary costs etc. Now take off ticket revenue and Sky fee and whichever way you play it its a loss. If Eddie wants to do that great but if he can swing ppv he'd be daft not to.

Like I say, I don't think the joint purse would be 1.5mill, I don't even think it would be 1 million. And there is more income than just the seating and sky tv, there would be income from sponsorship and foreign tv as well. Not saying it would be Showtime or HBO in America or huge channels in other European countries but they would come in with money.

I'm not a boxing promoter, but I'm quite willing to accept that Eddie Hearn knows how to make a profit on this bill.

He does. He will put it on PPV!

No he won't.

mickey1975 wrote:

jameswilson wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:James,
Let's say the joint purse is 1.5 mill. Add on the cost of the undercard the cost of the arena ancillary costs etc. Now take off ticket revenue and Sky fee and whichever way you play it its a loss. If Eddie wants to do that great but if he can swing ppv he'd be daft not to.

Like I say, I don't think the joint purse would be 1.5mill, I don't even think it would be 1 million. And there is more income than just the seating and sky tv, there would be income from sponsorship and foreign tv as well. Not saying it would be Showtime or HBO in America or huge channels in other European countries but they would come in with money.

I'm not a boxing promoter, but I'm quite willing to accept that Eddie Hearn knows how to make a profit on this bill.

He does. He will put it on PPV!

That wont be his decision, Sky will decided.

Like I say, I don't think the joint purse would be 1.5mill, I don't even think it would be 1 million. And there is more income than just the seating and sky tv, there would be income from sponsorship and foreign tv as well. Not saying it would be Showtime or HBO in America or huge channels in other European countries but they would come in with money.

I'm not a boxing promoter, but I'm quite willing to accept that Eddie Hearn knows how to make a profit on this bill.[/quote]
He does. He will put it on PPV![/quote]

they'll run the numbers to see what makes the most money. He admitted Froch/Kessler couldn't have happened without PPV and Haye/Fury is all about PPV, they may well take a gamble on the extra revenue that PPV brings in. The problem with this fight is that HBO very possibly won't be that interested in it so there's a loss of revenue there , who cares about George Groves?? - obviously though, if Froch makes a unification fight or a big fight otherwise the IBF will let him skip the mandatory - Kessler 3 which seems to be where they've been heading all along might fit that bill?

Did you not see the Barry Hearn interview...ops!!! He basically said Sky do not push for PPV, they have been stung before, look at the back lash they got from Haye v Harrison. I would imagine Matchroom have to guarantee a percentage successful or not.

zero wrote:Did you not see the Barry Hearn interview...ops!!! He basically said Sky do not push for PPV, they have been stung before, look at the back lash they got from Haye v Harrison. I would imagine Matchroom have to guarantee a percentage successful or not.

yep but basically once you go onto PPV Platform you are adding to your income. Basically Sky have a budget for boxing that they allocate over a year/season and the bigger they allocate to one particular fight, it means the others' suffer, so lets imagine they've sat down with Matchroom and said what are the big fights we might get this year - they will allocate a budget to that, Matchroom will work out all the other potential income (syndication / gate / HBO / sponsorship etc) but in order to make the purses big enough for the fighters to agree and for them to make their cut they need to bring in every possible penny - and if they have the chance to make it PPV - that gives them money on top of the budget.

So being conservative - say they get 100,000 PPV's (Froch/Kessler rumoured 275-300k) at 15 per PPV - take off VAT and costs and imagine that leaves an extra £1,000,000 in the pot - obviously Sky get some but bottom line is it increases the budget by £1,000,000.

So lets face it, Froch won't want to dip to under £1m per fight now, Groves would get probably £200k maybe for this fight as the challenger bringing virtually nothing to the table (still a great purse) - all that's much more realistic with PPV.

Froch Kessler had international money, Denmark PPV, sold to other countries - Groves doesn't bring that interest. HBO might show it but certainly would play hardball about what they were going to pay etc.

Froch fights Hopkins / Ward - the money is on a different level. Same as when Joe fought people like RJJ and Hopkins (who at the time seemed to be way past his peak but has come again incredibly) because their names still brought $$$$$$$ - this is like Joe taking Froch instead of those big names.

Possible reasons for doing this - 1; Eddie thinking he can launch Groves off the back of it, 2 - IMHO, an easy fight for Froch but still can generate excitement and profile domestically because 2 UK fighters, still leaving Froch that one big payday next Summer with a huge fight againts Ward/Hopkins/Kessler

Personally with so few fights to go I'd be looking at going out against big names and refusing to be used as a stepladder for Fast Eddie and his hoped for next generation.

Imagine if Groves did win (which he wouldn't), where would Eddie be immediately after the fight? Running over to Groves like he's his new best friend?

goldenears wrote:So lets face it, Froch won't want to dip to under £1m per fight now, Groves would get probably £200k maybe for this fight as the challenger bringing virtually nothing to the table (still a great purse) - all that's much more realistic with PPV.

Froch Kessler had international money, Denmark PPV, sold to other countries - Groves doesn't bring that interest. HBO might show it but certainly would play hardball about what they were going to pay etc.

On your first point none of us know how much Froch is willing to take per fight now. I think it's off to suggest that because he earnt £2million+ or whatever he got for the Kessler fight that he now will only take £1 million paydays. I don't think there are many £1million paydays available to Froch. I think Kessler, Hopkins, Ward and some of the other 175 belt holders. Possibly Stieglitz as well.

Also on your second paragraph here whilst it won't attract the big PPVs from other countries it would be televised in other countries and that would bring in quite a bit of money.

Serious question, you've mentioned your involvement with music, are you also involved with boxing because you seem to be mentioning fairly precise purse figures that you think each guy will get? Is this based on any recent experience within boxing promoting?

jameswilson wrote:

goldenears wrote:So lets face it, Froch won't want to dip to under £1m per fight now, Groves would get probably £200k maybe for this fight as the challenger bringing virtually nothing to the table (still a great purse) - all that's much more realistic with PPV.

Froch Kessler had international money, Denmark PPV, sold to other countries - Groves doesn't bring that interest. HBO might show it but certainly would play hardball about what they were going to pay etc.

On your first point none of us know how much Froch is willing to take per fight now. I think it's off to suggest that because he earnt £2million+ or whatever he got for the Kessler fight that he now will only take £1 million paydays. I don't think there are many £1million paydays available to Froch. I think Kessler, Hopkins, Ward and some of the other 175 belt holders. Possibly Stieglitz as well.

Also on your second paragraph here whilst it won't attract the big PPVs from other countries it would be televised in other countries and that would bring in quite a bit of money.

Serious question, you've mentioned your involvement with music, are you also involved with boxing because you seem to be mentioning fairly precise purse figures that you think each guy will get? Is this based on any recent experience within boxing promoting?

Boxing purses are freely available online - especially US fights - and I'm coupling that with just business common sense. Carl has, maybe, 3/4 fights left? Of course he's only going to fight the money fights - just like Joe did - and why the hell not - his market value has never been higher and to not take advantage of that when you're setting yourself for life in a brutal game would be a pretty stupid move. If you were in a career like boxing and you knew you were at your peak in terms of earning power and you were reaching the end, your priority would be to milk the last few fights for financial security - that's just obvious. What's the point in Froch at 34/35 taking a step down in earnings when there's not many paydays left and there are better financial options out there? He's won belts - if someone came in with huge money, at this point, I'm guessing he'd drop a belt - like Pac/Marquez for example.

Like I say, no involvement, but a little bit of reading and you can find out purses pretty easily - they publish the purses for all US fights the day before (not including PPV splits) - Floyd Guerrero was $32m to Floyd, $3m to RG.

http://www.badlefthook.com/boxing-purse-reports - just first one i found on google