Rocky Marciano vrs Archie Moore-Just Seconds Away from KO?

[Caractacus]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg


yeah,just a mere seven seconds (you count 'em)elapsed after Marciano hit the canvas from that short right hand,got up and then Moore threw
that big "uppercut from hell" at him,
Moore miscalculating the timing of that punch is really what was probably eating at him all those years afterward,
because that punch just may have KO'd the Rock (possibly-who knows ?)

[yancey]

Wow, you've been reduced to this type of behaviour.

Weird how at home you are among Henry, Brutu and Caractacus, the forum loons.

You don't like it because I point out the truth.

Simple as that.

Simple is the word for you. The numbers you're using come from Henry, village idiot and notorious forum remedial. You have found your level.

No, a simpleton is someone who continually misses the larger points being made.

Which defines you, pal.

Whether the number of punches and percentage landed by Marciano in the Moore fight was 691/70% or something different is french pastry, the larger point being made was that Rocky was really and truly an attrition puncher, not some awesome one shot knockout specialist that dopes like you imagine him to have been.

[Tuan_Jim]

You can't point to a single example of me saying Marciano was a one-shot puncher because I have never made such a remark.

That being said, if a punch count for Marciano/Moore existed it would require extreme scrutiny, as the Mongoose was quite adept at evading the fullest impact of a punch.

[Caractacus]

Archie Moore had written the lyrics to this song from a few years earlier.
(do you think that is his voice at the end of it ?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrlQLCz5Xio

[Caractacus]

Where you doin' your "jive' back in '55 ?

[Caractacus]

for comparative purposes here are some Archie Moore-Tale of the Tape(s)

(in September 1955)

age 38
wt.185 lbs
ht 5 ft 11 in.
reach 75.5
chest 40 in (expanded 42 in)
waist 32 in.
biceps 16 in.
forearm 12.5 in
neck 17 in.

(in July 1956)

age:39
wt .185 lbs
ht. 6 ft.
reach:72.5 in
chest:42 in."(expanded 44 in)
waist 33.5 in.
thigh 21.5 "
calf 16 in.
biceps 16.5
forearm 12.5
neck 17 in

(in December 1958)
age 41 yrs
weight 175 lbs
ht. 5 ft 11 and three-quarters in.
reach 73 inches
chest 42 in.
chest expanded 44 inches
waist 35.5 in.
thigh 22.5 in.
calf 16.5

biceps 16.5 in.
forearm 13.5
neck 17 in.

Rocky Marciano was actually 5 ft. 10 and one-quarter inch tall,so Moore did have a height advantage too.

[Tony1244]

for comparative purposes here are some Archie Moore-Tale of the Tape(s)

(in September 1955)

age 38
wt.185 lbs
ht 5 ft 11 in.
reach 75.5
chest 40 in (expanded 42 in)
waist 32 in.
biceps 16 in.
forearm 12.5 in
neck 17 in.

(in July 1956)

age:39
wt .185 lbs
ht. 6 ft.
reach:72.5 in
chest:42 in."(expanded 44 in)
waist 33.5 in.
thigh 21.5 "
calf 16 in.
biceps 16.5
forearm 12.5
neck 17 in

(in December 1958)
age 41 yrs
weight 175 lbs
ht. 5 ft 11 and three-quarters in.
reach 73 inches
chest 42 in.
chest expanded 44 inches
waist 35.5 in.
thigh 22.5 in.
calf 16.5

biceps 16.5 in.
forearm 13.5
neck 17 in.

Is that all supposed to be Archie Moore? I get how his age, bicep, and weight change, but his height changes too?

[Caractacus]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg


yeah,just a mere seven seconds (you count 'em)elapsed after Marciano hit the canvas from that short right hand,got up and then Moore threw
that big "uppercut from hell" at him,
Moore miscalculating the timing of that punch is really what was probably eating at him all those years afterward,
because that punch just may have KO'd the Rock (possibly-who knows ?)[/quote]

But I sort of doubt that vicious uppercut (if if it had even landed,would have KO'd the Rock.
what do you think Al Perno ?

[Kalan]

Back in the 1970's,watching old boxing filmed bouts was just not available for the average boxing fan to watch.
But I remember around 1978 reading an article/interview about Archie Moore in one of the Sunday newspaper supplement magazines,
were he had claimed that the referee Harry Kessler had interfered and got in his way of a sure knock out of Rocky Marciano
when Moore had knocked Marciano down in round Two of their title fight.
Apparently the standing 8 count had been waved for the fight for some reason.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg

There was no standing 8 for that fight.. I believe that rule didn't come in for Heavyweight Title Fights until after the 1st Patterson-Johansson Fight.. Marciano got up immediately on being knocked down and he was unhurt.. The announcer called it a "4-count" was full of it.. The time keeper kept counting after Marciano rose until he realized there was no standing 8 for the fight.. Marciano got hit with a lot of sharp countering rights hands from Moore, including the one that decked him -- but Moore got hit with about everything.. Moore was hit with slews of punches by Marciano, Patterson, Charles, and Clay.. Archie's cross-armed defense was riddled with holes.

Marciano left hook wasn't a formidable weapon.. It wasn't sharp or deadly.. Great right hand counterpunchers like Schmeling, Wladimir, Haye, and Tunney would have eaten Rocky alive.. Joshua's right counters already look very polished.. Foreman couldn't get his right hand on real good boxers, but any fighter who gave George his head to shoot at---as Marciano did---George would kill him with right uppercuts and hooks. I wouldn't rank Rocky with the top Heavyweight Champions by any stretch. He didn't have any good Heavyweights to fight until Patterson came up.

[Caractacus]

THE ROCK beats 'em all,Man !
Because he had the "X" factor.

[Caractacus]

All I can say is FEEL FREE to count the punches yourself in that fight. It sounds incredible, hard to believe, but in those nine rounds Marciano nearly threw 700 punches. A great deal of those were power punches, and a great deal of them landed. Don't take my own word for it, do the counting yourself. As of YET I have seen nobody wanting to combat the number of punches throw tally that I have put out. Why? Maybe cus of laziness. Or maybe cus nobody wants to see that I am right.

maybe someone can count the number that at least look like they may have hurt.
(like the right hand at 22:34 looked like it hurt).

[Caractacus]

was the 'slip" at 27:49 another knockdown possibly from the right hand ?
Marciano hits Moore on the left shoulder and he goes down.

[Kalan]

Nothing to get too excited about - a guy throwing 700 punches at an old Light Heavyweight over 9 rounds is it??? ... How many punches do you suppose Mike Tyson would need to dispatch Moore if Archie were in there with him instead of 212-pound Lineal Heavyweight Champion Michael Spinks??? ... It would have been Liston-Patterson all over again... Seriously Caractacus, old Archie Moore wouldn't stay conscious long enough to hear the bell ending the 1st round.

[Caractacus]

Nothing to get too excited about - a guy throwing 700 punches at an old Light Heavyweight over 9 rounds is it??? ... How many punches do you suppose Mike Tyson would need to dispatch Moore if Archie were in there with him instead of 212-pound Lineal Heavyweight Champion Michael Spinks??? ... It would have been Liston-Patterson all over again... Seriously Caractacus, old Archie Moore wouldn't stay conscious long enough to hear the bell ending the 1st round.

Tell that to Boxbuzz

[Kalan]

BuzzBox????? ... He's vacuous

[Controversial]

Nothing to get too excited about - a guy throwing 700 punches at an old Light Heavyweight over 9 rounds is it??? ... How many punches do you suppose Mike Tyson would need to dispatch Moore if Archie were in there with him instead of 212-pound Lineal Heavyweight Champion Michael Spinks??? ... It would have been Liston-Patterson all over again... Seriously Caractacus, old Archie Moore wouldn't stay conscious long enough to hear the bell ending the 1st round.

This is the problem comparing eras and why fighters should be judged on their achievements at the time, not how they would compare against others many years later. Using tennis as an example, Bjorn Borg is considered one of the greatest tennis players of all time, he retired aged just 28 and won 11 grand slams in 10 years. Would he dominate today if he were around? Unlikely. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great tennis player. Marciano and Moore would be a cruiserweights if around today, small ones at that. Give it another 60 years and the HW champ could be 7' tall, 300lbs and highly skilled, then people would saying the same thing about Tyson not lasting a round.

[Caractacus]

for comparative purposes here are some Archie Moore-Tale of the Tape(s)

(in September 1955)

age 38
wt.185 lbs
ht 5 ft 11 in.
reach 75.5
chest 40 in (expanded 42 in)
waist 32 in.
biceps 16 in.
forearm 12.5 in
neck 17 in.

(in July 1956)

age:39
wt .185 lbs
ht. 6 ft.
reach:72.5 in
chest:42 in."(expanded 44 in)
waist 33.5 in.
thigh 21.5 "
calf 16 in.
biceps 16.5
forearm 12.5
neck 17 in

(in December 1958)
age 41 yrs
weight 175 lbs
ht. 5 ft 11 and three-quarters in.
reach 73 inches
chest 42 in.
chest expanded 44 inches
waist 35.5 in.
thigh 22.5 in.
calf 16.5

biceps 16.5 in.
forearm 13.5
neck 17 in.

-Rocky Marciano-Tale-of-the-Tape

weight 188 lbs
reach-67 in.
chest-39 in (N)
chest-42 in (E)
waist-32 in
neck- 16 and three-fourths in.
Biceps-14 in.
Forearm-12 in
Thigh-22 in.
calf -14 and three-fourth in.
ankle-10 in.
wrist-7.5 in.
Fist-11.5 in.

[BoxBuzz]

BuzzBox????? ... He's vacuous

Kalan, what you lack in pith, you make up for, with your benign sidebar entertainment. Don't ever change.

[Kalan]

Nothing to get too excited about - a guy throwing 700 punches at an old Light Heavyweight over 9 rounds is it??? ... How many punches do you suppose Mike Tyson would need to dispatch Moore if Archie were in there with him instead of 212-pound Lineal Heavyweight Champion Michael Spinks??? ... It would have been Liston-Patterson all over again... Seriously Caractacus, old Archie Moore wouldn't stay conscious long enough to hear the bell ending the 1st round.

This is the problem comparing eras and why fighters should be judged on their achievements at the time, not how they would compare against others many years later. Using tennis as an example, Bjorn Borg is considered one of the greatest tennis players of all time, he retired aged just 28 and won 11 grand slams in 10 years. Would he dominate today if he were around? Unlikely. That doesn't mean he wasn't a great tennis player. Marciano and Moore would be a cruiserweights if around today, small ones at that. Give it another 60 years and the HW champ could be 7' tall, 300lbs and highly skilled, then people would saying the same thing about Tyson not lasting a round.

If your vision of Boxing's future plays out like you describe, he wouldn't last a round... Mike lasted a few rounds against the much bigger, stronger, and more skilled Buster Douglas and Lennox Lewis, but he got knocked out ... Those guys were only 6'4" X 232 and 6'5" X 249 -- But I doubt that in 2 generations skilled heavyweights are going to be that much bigger and taller than today... Maybe an inch or 2 taller at the most... There were many big, tall Heavyweights after the turn of the 19th Century -- but no big and good ones when Marciano held the title many years later.

[Caractacus]

I remember on a dvd of YOU BET YOUR LIFE with Groucho Marx.
They had as a guest Archie Moore who said that there was going to be a re-match with Rocky Marciano
in England the following June I think.

I remember reading in a book that Ingemar Johansson approached Archie Moore
at the Eppsom Downs racetrack in England not too long after the Marciano fight
and asked if Moore wanted to fight him in Sweden for big money,but Moore turned Johansson down.

[Caractacus]

Just thought it would be intersting to view some of Archie Moore fights that were leading up to his shot for the Heavyweight Championship of the World in September 1955.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7qFsEmK1gE

[BoxBuzz]

Great fight, these guys were all skill and class. Archie shuts him out.

But he wasn't that much better than Harold...just happenstance between two greats.

Same with the difference between Charles and Moore.

Thanks Caractacus......

[Caractacus]

you can see how much centrifical force that Archie Moore put into his punches with that miss at 1:50 of the clip.
btw listening to Rocky Marciano speak there,he sounds much more rougher then usual like a real baddasss.
If I picked up to answer the phone and heard that voice I would like hang up immediately.

[Kalan]

Didn't sound bad-ass to me... Sounded rehearsed and programmed...like an uneducated mug with a stuffy nose reading from a script...

Frank Bruno sounded bad-assed.. Like he was talking from the bottom of a well... Lennox Lewis sounded namby pamby like Mike Tyson. I don't go by the voice.

[Kalan]

I'm a big Moore fan and not a Marciano fan at all... But I thought Marciano was getting screwed slightly here... He was knocked down at 7:39 of this video and was up at the count of 2 unhurt.. Why the timekeeper continued to tole off 3 and 4 I have no idea...Rocky was up. The referee didn't even wipe Marciano's gloves off he resumed the action so fast.. You don't see that too often. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg