BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:This is his first proper "title" fight in my eyes.

But even now it's still a paper title.

And Froch's WBA?

SNG wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:This is his first proper "title" fight in my eyes.

But even now it's still a paper title.

And Froch's WBA?

Again, paper title. Everyone knows Ward is the man at 168.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:This is his first proper "title" fight in my eyes.

But even now it's still a paper title.

True.

SNG wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:This is his first proper "title" fight in my eyes.

But even now it's still a paper title.

And Froch's WBA?

Paper title. Thing is, Froch is at a level where he no longer needs titles, be them paper or genuine. Incidentally he has had plenty of genuine title fights and wins.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:This is his first proper "title" fight in my eyes.

But even now it's still a paper title.

You really are an idiot.

Make that a Pair of idiots.

Awwwww

Some people don't half get touchy ( 'current sceney?' ) about certain fighters.

I like Nathan and hope he wins this fight. Nobody can convince me he won a genuine world title though. It's the epitome of a paper title

lillywhite14 wrote:

Awwwww

Some people don't half get touchy ( 'current sceney?' ) about certain fighters.

I'd say the same thing about you regarding Clev. You've been at this paper title stuff since he became WBO champ two years ago. The champion was stripped and Clev was upgraded to champion from interim status, pretty standard affair really.

lillywhite14 wrote: Paper title. Thing is, Froch is at a level where he no longer needs titles, be them paper or genuine. Incidentally he has had plenty of genuine title fights and wins.

You say paper title, but then that he has had plenty of 'genuine title fights and wins'. Which is it?

People have different notions of what the concept of world titles actually means. They say things like 'genuine world title fight' to try and elevate one alphabet body above another based on some arbitrary perception. For me, there can only be one world champion per division. The concept of having more than one is silly. Ward vs Froch was the fight that was universally recognised as the contest to reveal who 'the man' was at 168. Froch lost. It doesn't matter to me what belts he picks up from other fighters subsequently.

taffytoon wrote: You really are an idiot.

OK, so you don't understand why it's a paper title because you want to believe so desperately that your beloved Nate is the best light heavyweight in the world, despite him having proved nothing.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote: Paper title. Thing is, Froch is at a level where he no longer needs titles, be them paper or genuine. Incidentally he has had plenty of genuine title fights and wins.

You say paper title, but then that he has had plenty of 'genuine title fights and wins'. Which is it?

People have different notions of what the concept of world titles actually means. They say things like 'genuine world title fight' to try and elevate one alphabet body above another based on some arbitrary perception. For me, there can only be one world champion per division. The concept of having more than one is silly. Ward vs Froch was the fight that was universally recognised as the contest to reveal who 'the man' was at 168. Froch lost. It doesn't matter to me what belts he picks up from other fighters subsequently.

It's worse than just picking up titles subsequently, it's the fact that Ward is the recognised WBA champ and now Froch has a WBA strap too, they have several title holders of some status in quite a few divisions. They're by far the worst of the main four in my opinion.

lillywhite14 wrote:

SNG wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:But even now it's still a paper title.

And Froch's WBA?

Paper title.

Yup same with Haye's WBA belt too.

Good luck to Cleverly hope he does the business, but let's not fool ourselves that everyone with a alphabet belt is a legit world champion.

its not going to be a calzaghe v lacy repeat because in the calzaghe v lacy fight there were two genuine world champions in the ring, this fight doesnt even have 1 genuine world champion.

Carl beat Pascal for a world title which had been vacated by Calzaghe after he moved up. He defended it against Taylor and Dirrell. Also fought Ward and Kessler of course. All 'proper' world title fights.

The WBA are a bit of a joke with their super champs but unfortunately that's modern boxing.

Cleverly is a "strap holder/paper titlist"

Remember how Enzo won his WBO strap? Similar way. Didn't he win it against Mark Hobson? Allegedly worked Clev his strap. Beating the likes of Kov will legitimise his claim to be a champ though.

lillywhite14 wrote:

handsofstone wrote:I love Cleverly and im expecting to open up a can of whoop ass(sorry ) on Kovalev but i wish he would stop banging on about Hopkins,he,s been going on about these big fights with Bernard for years now and it doesnt wash when your fighting the Tommy Karpencys and Tony Bellews of this world,fair enough you want B-Hop but just stop it now,even just mention unification fights thats a start mate

And before anyone says anything about Bellew,yes he,s a decent fighter who,s done well to earn a title shot but he didnt deserve one against Nathan at that time,thats all

I don't really understand your last point mate. Cleverly is the most 'paperist' of champions in the entire sport. It's not as if Nathan even won his title legitimately. He was handed it on a plate. Neither him or Bellew had any right to be contesting an alleged world title that night.

This is his first proper "title" fight in my eyes.

I was referring to Bellews supposed upcoming shot at Adonis Stevenson

I predict this will pan out like Eamonn Loughran coming up against Jose Luis Lopez. Painful defeat for Clev against a rising star.

This fight is going to be a sell out by the looks of the live seat viewer on Eventim

crusader wrote:Ok, I understand that point, which is much different from suggesting one must be good if they fought in America.

I don't think the Kovalev hype is that excessive given his recent performances, and I think many of the predictions of him winning easily are based as much on perceptions of Clev's limitations as on Kovalev's strengths. I don't think these perceptions stem largely from where the fighters have competed though; I think recent opposition is the main factor, with people associating Clev's mediocre opposition with a lack of ability, and Kovalev's impressive knockouts of better fighters with more ability. Moreover, Kovalev's strengths (mainly his power) make a much stronger visual impact than Clev's (good stamina, work rate, and chin) do.

Fair do,s mate it was just a tongue in cheek comment about Cleverlys perception to a lot of posters because he hasnt fought the best of opposition,people say he cant fight regardless of whether he holds a title or not,admitidley Kovalevs CV might be slightly better,im just thinking if both men were fighting for the vacant belt,Nathan might get his dues,i think some people are quick to criticise just because he hasnt defended against top notch opposition,he must be crap and prefer he lose coz Kovalevs paid his dues as such,Whether Cleverlys the champ or not,he,d still have the same ability going into this bout and people should forget about the standard of his opponents so far and just judge him on talent and ability

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:This fight is going to be a sell out by the looks of the live seat viewer on Eventim

It's 5,000 capacity.

But Cardiff being away for first Premier league match won't have helped.

handsofstone wrote:

crusader wrote:Ok, I understand that point, which is much different from suggesting one must be good if they fought in America.

I don't think the Kovalev hype is that excessive given his recent performances, and I think many of the predictions of him winning easily are based as much on perceptions of Clev's limitations as on Kovalev's strengths. I don't think these perceptions stem largely from where the fighters have competed though; I think recent opposition is the main factor, with people associating Clev's mediocre opposition with a lack of ability, and Kovalev's impressive knockouts of better fighters with more ability. Moreover, Kovalev's strengths (mainly his power) make a much stronger visual impact than Clev's (good stamina, work rate, and chin) do.

Fair do,s mate it was just a tongue in cheek comment about Cleverlys perception to a lot of posters because he hasnt fought the best of opposition,people say he cant fight regardless of whether he holds a title or not,admitidley Kovalevs CV might be slightly better,im just thinking if both men were fighting for the vacant belt,Nathan might get his dues,i think some people are quick to criticise just because he hasnt defended against top notch opposition,he must be crap and prefer he lose coz Kovalevs paid his dues as such,Whether Cleverlys the champ or not,he,d still have the same ability going into this bout and people should forget about the standard of his opponents so far and just judge him on talent and ability

But the reason FW hasn't put him in with any real threats is a measure of Clev's ability, the level Frank perceives him to be. And Warren is a pretty good judge of a fighter's level.

When Ricky Hatton was with Frank, I'm sure Warren knew he was capable of matching up to the world's best, but due to Hatton's fanbase he could make a lot of money putting Ricky in with sub-standard foes. The difference here is it's Cleverly's ability that dictates a lower level of opponent. When you go life and death with Tony Bellew it's a wake-up call as to the level you are operating on. Also, FW is not making nearly as much money with Cleverly so now he's 'rolling the dice' on Kovalev and seeing if Nate can swim or if he will sink, as there's nothing much to lose, Clev needed a challenge at some point and here it is.

Nothing personal against anyone here who are obviously big fans of the guy, but I believe Clev is going down hard!

G0mez wrote:

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:This fight is going to be a sell out by the looks of the live seat viewer on Eventim

It's 5,000 capacity.

But Cardiff being away for first Premier league match won't have helped.

It hasn't made much of a difference. Cardiff can only take a relatively small number of fans to West Ham because of police restrictions.

When Nath fought Karpency it sold out and it was on the biggest weekend of sport in Wales for a long, long time. Wales had England in the 6 Nations on the same day and Cardiff were setting off to Wembley the next morning for the Carling Cup final.

So, Cardiff being away to West Ham is a relatively small issue compared to last February.

Kovalev, to me, smothers his own work & whilst obviously a hurtful puncher--& despite what JDJ has to say!--never quite seems to have his feet underneath him properly, for me. He also lacks head movement. The Campillo win was great, far better than anything Nathan has on his record but how much did the Venezuelan/Spaniard (I can never remember if he was born in one & fought out the other or what) have left after the wars with Cloud & the two with Shumenov? The boy was certainly no stranger to the canvas & maybe he'd gone to the well one too many times.

Cleverly's the better athlete of the two & has got faster hands, imo. Dunno why but he looks much bigger at the weight than Kovalev. For all his glaring defensive lapses he does have a great engine, & that's leading me to believe he's going to grind out the win here.

thought it would have of sold out to be honest

Can't see it my self. Kovalev is legitimate from what I've watched of him. Cleverly will get carried away at some point and end up on his backside. Thing is, once Cleverly is hurt, Kov will finish him off. You can't be messing around with a man like Kov, his power is vicious. Cleverly will not be able to fool around like he has in the past, and start taking shots.

I'm pumped for this fight. The fight is a pick em, none of them are really proven, so were going to find out who is the real deal. If Cleverly wins, then he's right in the mix.

whiteboy wrote:thought it would have of sold out to be honest

It just about has, and will. Not bad for a kid with almost exclusive coverage on a tv station with a tiny audience.

Genuine pick em fight.

I have changed my mind a few times this week already.

Kovalev for me. At minute anyway.