Outcome of Cleverly-Kovalev?

[freddydoesdallas]

The thing is, people picking Cleverly are basically saying he'll have a good enough defence to evade Kovalev's shots all night and win the fight off the back foot. He's already proven to have a sub-par defence against the scrubs he's beaten, what happens when he steps up a level or two here? Do people think he'll become a slickster overnight?

Like Froch, Kovalev will struggle against slick boxers who have tight defences and can land fast shots and stay on the move. Clev is fast but he is just not slick at all, he's tactically naive and I would question his accuracy too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNokhPAGwOM

13:44 - what the announcer says and the chuckle after he says it, followed by his fellow announcers chuckling in agreement, tells you everything lol.

Full agreement from me here. When Khan was stepping up in levels and getting dropped by a number of people on the way up, people were quick (rightly so) to say that unless he sorted his defence, he would get dropped by the better quality fighters.

Same with Hatton to a certain extent, defended with his face and got heavily sparked by the best fighters he faced.

I do think the Welsh are overly protective of their own fighters, they will never hear a bad word said against them even if it is a flaw which is clear.

[dookus]

Gone for Kovalev KO without specifying a time; Cleverly's chin appears to be good enough to last a while, but I don't see him surviving the whole fight with Kovalev due to his leaky defence.

[youngrell]

I do think the Welsh are overly protective of their own fighters, they will never hear a bad word said against them even if it is a flaw which is clear.

That's not entirely true mate. I'm more than capable at looking at Welsh fighters as objectively as anyone, as I have shown by picking Kovalev by KO.

It's more likely that Welsh fighters get more flack and that's why they then get more backing from their supporters in resistance.

It's typical ignorance like this that gets Welsh people's backs up. It's the same with stupid reality TV shows like X Factor or Big Brother - the amount of times I've heard 'oh so and so will get all of the Welsh votes cos they're Welsh' as if Wales is just a small city in England or something. We are just as capable as you of judging someone by their personality/talent/skills and not their nationality.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I do think the Welsh are overly protective of their own fighters, they will never hear a bad word said against them even if it is a flaw which is clear.

That's not entirely true mate. I'm more than capable at looking at Welsh fighters as objectively as anyone, as I have shown by picking Kovalev by KO.

It's more likely that Welsh fighters get more flack and that's why they then get more backing from their supporters in resistance.

It's typical ignorance like this that gets Welsh people's backs up. It's the same with stupid reality TV shows like X Factor or Big Brother - the amount of times I've heard 'oh so and so will get all of the Welsh votes cos they're Welsh' as if Wales is just a small city in England or something. We are just as capable as you of judging someone by their personality/talent/skills and not their nationality.

I agree with this. It happens with everyone. A lot of US posters think we Brits are all nationalistic because of a select few trolls. In return, I think a lot more Brits proportionally feel US posters think the boxing world revolves around America when in reality the best American posters are some of the most well-informed, knowledgable and unbiased boxing fans in the world.

I think you're a really good poster and it's a shame that the other thread has so many nationalistic Welsh trolls who are incapable of reasonable debate. I'm probably guilty of inciting them somewhat by not preceding every post with 'Look, I think Clev is great and no offence here, and I'm sure he'll come again, but I just have a FEELING, hope I'm wrong as I want him to do it for Wales but...'

[Gazmac81]

Could this be similar to the Martinez vs Burns , or Katsidas Burns fight where pretty much everyone oustide of Billy Nelsons Tracksuit bottoms thought Burns would get caught and stopped at some point due to his lack of Pop.

i havent saw Kovalev fight other than the couple of knockout reel clips which make him look good and get the juices flowing for the fight.

[youngrell]

I do think the Welsh are overly protective of their own fighters, they will never hear a bad word said against them even if it is a flaw which is clear.

That's not entirely true mate. I'm more than capable at looking at Welsh fighters as objectively as anyone, as I have shown by picking Kovalev by KO.

It's more likely that Welsh fighters get more flack and that's why they then get more backing from their supporters in resistance.

It's typical ignorance like this that gets Welsh people's backs up. It's the same with stupid reality TV shows like X Factor or Big Brother - the amount of times I've heard 'oh so and so will get all of the Welsh votes cos they're Welsh' as if Wales is just a small city in England or something. We are just as capable as you of judging someone by their personality/talent/skills and not their nationality.

I agree with this. It happens with everyone. A lot of US posters think we Brits are all nationalistic because of a select few trolls. In return, I think a lot more Brits proportionally feel US posters think the boxing world revolves around America when in reality the best American posters are some of the most well-informed, knowledgable and unbiased boxing fans in the world.

I think you're a really good poster and it's a shame that the other thread has so many nationalistic Welsh trolls who are incapable of reasonable debate. I'm probably guilty of inciting them somewhat by not preceding every post with 'Look, I think Clev is great and no offence here, and I'm sure he'll come again, but I just have a FEELING, hope I'm wrong as I want him to do it for Wales but...'

Thanks. People do tend to get overly defensive of their favourite fighters and I've seen your back and forth with the Welsh boys who are getting a little emotional before the fight, that just shows me that they realise Clev is up against it, but I admire their defiance too.

I'm really rooting for Nathan, I just find it really difficult to gauge where he's at skill wise as after a decent domestic apprenticeship his career has nose-dived, and I'm not sure if he's been fighting down to his poor opponent's level or if he's just not going to be good enough for the top level.

I have a feeling he's got extra gears and can box more cautiously when needed, like he will need to tomorrow, but we'll find that out very soon!

[lefty]

Necks on the line lads. Me? Clev to win wide on points, big overhand rights pinging off Kovalev's head all night.

Kovalev by stoppage victory inside three rounds. This is how it will pan out:

Rd 1. Cleverly comes out bobbing and feinting. Has a look for the first ten seconds. Kovalev comes forward, throws some jabs and misses with a couple of right hands. Cleverly lands a couple of cuffing shots. Kovalev has felt Cleverly's lack of power and ups his assault. He backs Cleverly up. Cleverly's output drops almost instantly. Kovalev measures him with the jab and lands a crunching body shot. Cleverly gets on his bike. Kovalev stalks him and lands a combo in the corner. Cleverly waves at him (bravado wave). Kovalev throws another combo and clips Cleverly in the corner. Cleverly down at the end of the round. Gets up at 8. Saved by the bell.

Rd 2. Cleverly still doesn't look fully recovered from the knockdown. Kovalev senses it and rushes forward, throwing combos, but not landing much clean. Cleverly gets brave and tries to trade, lands one straight right hand which Kovalev shrugs off. Kovalev marches forward again and clips Cleverly with a big right hand, which puts him down. Cleverly rises again, looks hurt. EL TEL has a long look, sends him back in, but Kovalev swarms him and Clev goes down again, he rises bravely but his legs are gone and it's stopped.

It's entirely possible that I'm being way too kind on Nate and it's all over in the first.
Kovalev will go on to take a fight with Bernard Hopkins and lose a decision in a bad style matchup for him.

You're too modest in your analysis.

[Bard of Boxrec]

OK, so I get excited. I'm sorry. I'm just so pumped for this fight (mostly for money reasons I have to admit, but a good enough reason as any).

[gobbles]

Kovalev looks a plodder to me. If Cleverly can keep the pressure on Kovalev won't be able to land his big shots and could tire.
This looks a big step-up in quality for Kovalev. At least Cleverly has fought Bellew.

[freddydoesdallas]

I do think the Welsh are overly protective of their own fighters, they will never hear a bad word said against them even if it is a flaw which is clear.

That's not entirely true mate. I'm more than capable at looking at Welsh fighters as objectively as anyone, as I have shown by picking Kovalev by KO.

It's more likely that Welsh fighters get more flack and that's why they then get more backing from their supporters in resistance.

It's typical ignorance like this that gets Welsh people's backs up. It's the same with stupid reality TV shows like X Factor or Big Brother - the amount of times I've heard 'oh so and so will get all of the Welsh votes cos they're Welsh' as if Wales is just a small city in England or something. We are just as capable as you of judging someone by their personality/talent/skills and not their nationality.

You're right, this doesn't apply to the nation as a whole, there are obviously people who can be rational about this. Even so, you've been very defensive of this straight away when there is clearly of lot of Welsh folk on here who are overtly nationalistic when it comes to their fighters. It's an observation i've made based on that, not outside in the real world.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Kovalev looks a plodder to me. If Cleverly can keep the pressure on Kovalev won't be able to land his big shots and could tire.
This looks a big step-up in quality for Kovalev. At least Cleverly has fought Bellew.

Campillo > Bellew.
Cornelius White > Bellew.

[palooka]

All the talk about how rubbish Cleverlys' opponents have been are quiet about just who Kovalev has beaten to get a title shot, Campillo aside; I think Nathan will keep him turning for 3 rounds then put the work rate on him and run out on points.

[whiskey]

All the talk about how rubbish Cleverlys' opponents have been are quiet about just who Kovalev has beaten to get a title shot, Campillo aside; I think Nathan will keep him turning for 3 rounds then put the work rate on him and run out on points.

You cant make a comparison without Campillo though Palooka. Because all your left with is a train wreck of KO wins including a fighter that passed away (RIP)

Campillo is the yard stick here.

Bottom to top:-

He beat Hugo Garay (who totally dominated Jurgen Brahmer) He beat Shumonov , then lost by a whisker to Shumenov in a fight labelled a robbery, then if that wasn't a bad luck decision he got another robbery when he drew with Karo Murat in Germany. He then went on to be the victim of yet another robbery against Tarvoris Cloud.

He arguably beat all of them - with the exception of Kovalev who flattened him without breaking a sweat in three rounds.

Those that say "ah he looks this, or he looks that" aren't looking too hard. If he looks effortless then that should be a warning in itself shouldnt it not ?

[palooka]

Thanks for a fine response GOmez ; do you feel that Nathan would beat Campillo or do you put him over Cleverly? Just feel that someone who has been past 3 rounds once will get bashed around after that; it's happened before; Nathan is fit, tough and gets pretty mean; big hitters tend to come apart when they're tired out and smacked around.

[lefty]

All the talk about how rubbish Cleverlys' opponents have been are quiet about just who Kovalev has beaten to get a title shot, Campillo aside; I think Nathan will keep him turning for 3 rounds then put the work rate on him and run out on points.

You cant make a comparison without Campillo though Palooka. Because all your left with is a train wreck of KO wins including a fighter that passed away (RIP)

Campillo is the yard stick here.

Bottom to top:-

He beat Hugo Garay (who totally dominated Jurgen Brahmer) He beat Shumonov , then lost by a whisker to Shumenov in a fight labelled a robbery, then if that wasn't a bad luck decision he got another robbery when he drew with Karo Murat in Germany. He then went on to be the victim of yet another robbery against Tarvoris Cloud.

He arguably beat all of them - with the exception of Kovalev who flattened him without breaking a sweat in three rounds.

Those that say "ah he looks this, or he looks that" aren't looking too hard. If he looks effortless then that should be a warning in itself shouldnt it not ?

Campillo also had a terrible camp in the lead up to that fight aswell though by all accounts. I remember watching the NBC broadcast of the fight and they were saying how he had visa issues and he didnt have a proper camp for the fight. Also Campillo was down a couple of times early in the Cloud fight. The difference is Kovalev is a better finisher. I think that win Flatters Kovalev somewhat though to be honest.

[whiskey]

Thanks for a fine response GOmez ; do you feel that Nathan would beat Campillo or do you put him over Cleverly? Just feel that someone who has been past 3 rounds once will get bashed around after that; it's happened before; Nathan is fit, tough and gets pretty mean; big hitters tend to come apart when they're tired out and smacked around.

Cheers. These are the kind of match-ups that really melt your brain. So I will try and elaborate.

Campillo has never really been afforded the status / notice for fights that his ability commands. He has always been the "opponent" and you can see quite clearly in these SD and MD losses that he was the guy brought in to fight the 'star' in their homeland and has been so good that they simply had to give him a round here and there.

The judging against him during the Cloud fight was a disgrace. There really isn't any other way you could describe it. He got up and clearly fought his way back ahead on the cards.

But I see a lot of people simply not knowing much about Campillo, they watch the Kovalev vs Campillo fight and they see this plodder dominate and flatten him. It's not pretty and it's easy to make excuses for Campillo with training, this and that - and draw your conclusion on the Russian from that video alone... that is was a heavy-handed "ordinary" fighter beating up another "ordinary" fighter.

But the reality is this. Campillo is a very respectable opponent with skills and he was brutalised like a god damn journeyman. And when you look at Cornelius white, you see a flaky middle-of-the-road guy who was wobbled by everything.

But Cornelius knocked out Sukhotsky - who himself in turn blew away Nadjib Mohammedi in two rounds.

And we all remember the difficulty that Cleverly had with Mohammedi (UD12 by a couple of rounds)

There are a lot of by-stories with all these names with one another.

But one theory runs through the whole analysis like Blackpool runs through a stick of rock - and that is Kovalev is a very heavy handed and effective opponent.

He has got danger written all over him and Clev cannot afford to come racing out like a young Ricky Hatton, chopping away and standing right in front of him !

[lefty]

Thanks for a fine response GOmez ; do you feel that Nathan would beat Campillo or do you put him over Cleverly? Just feel that someone who has been past 3 rounds once will get bashed around after that; it's happened before; Nathan is fit, tough and gets pretty mean; big hitters tend to come apart when they're tired out and smacked around.

Cheers. These are the kind of match-ups that really melt your brain. So I will try and elaborate.

Campillo has never really been afforded the status / notice for fights that his ability commands. He has always been the "opponent" and you can see quite clearly in these SD and MD losses that he was the guy brought in to fight the 'star' in their homeland and has been so good that they simply had to give him a round here and there.

The judging against him during the Cloud fight was a disgrace. There really isn't any other way you could describe it. He got up and clearly fought his way back ahead on the cards.

But I see a lot of people simply not knowing much about Campillo, they watch the Kovalev vs Campillo fight and they see this plodder dominate and flatten him. It's not pretty and it's easy to make excuses for Campillo with training, this and that - and draw your conclusion on the Russian from that video alone... that is was a heavy-handed "ordinary" fighter beating up another "ordinary" fighter.

But the reality is this. Campillo is a very respectable opponent with skills and he was brutalised like a god damn journeyman. And when you look at Cornelius white, you see a flaky middle-of-the-road guy who was wobbled by everything.

But Cornelius knocked out Sukhotsky - who himself in turn blew away Nadjib Mohammedi in two rounds.

And we all remember the difficulty that Cleverly had with Mohammedi (UD12 by a couple of rounds)

There are a lot of by-stories with all these names with one another.

But one theory runs through the whole analysis like Blackpool runs through a stick of rock - and that is Kovalev is a very heavy handed and effective opponent.

He has got danger written all over him and Clev cannot afford to come racing out like a young Ricky Hatton, chopping away and standing right in front of him !

First off white never knocked out Sukhotsky, it was a UD over 12 and some people think White got a gift decision in that fight. Secondly White was also knocked out in a round by Donovan George who's hardly a world beater.

[palooka]

Now this is why I like this site

[Datsue]

I pointed it out in the other Clev/Kovalev thread (the one with the Welsh people having a meltdown & riddickblowe doing his usual "I don't like this fella so I'm gonna ridicule him etc etc"), Campillo's been decked early in almost all of those top-level fights in which he made his reputation.

I am not entirely convinced that he simply wasn't able to go to the well one last time versus Kovalev, & that this result may have flattered the Russian unduly. Impossible to say, really.

The result of this one is up in the air, but Kovalev isn't the monster many are making him out to be. He's heavy-handed but he's certainly not the Eurasian Julian Jackson. He can box but he steams straight in & smothers his work. He seems to know how to block a punch but leaves his head in the same place too much.

Clev by decision.

[lefty]

I pointed it out in the other Clev/Kovalev thread (the one with the Welsh people having a meltdown & riddickblowe doing his usual "I don't like this fella so I'm gonna ridicule him etc etc"), Campillo's been decked early in almost all of those top-level fights in which he made his reputation.

I am not entirely convinced that he simply wasn't able to go to the well one last time versus Kovalev, & that this result may have flattered the Russian unduly. Impossible to say, really.

The result of this one is up in the air, but Kovalev isn't the monster many are making him out to be. He's heavy-handed but he's certainly not the Eurasian Julian Jackson. He can box but he steams straight in & smothers his work. He seems to know how to block a punch but leaves his head in the same place too much.

Clev by decision.

Yeah I agree. Id be interested to see how Kovalev would cope if Cleverly got onto his chest "phone booth style" because Kovalev as dangerous as he is and as big a puncher as he is, he needs room to get off and when he doesnt have the room to get off with his punches, he's nowhere near as effective.

[palooka]

I put a tenner down for Nathan, Enzo and Buckland to win; £80 odd back if it comes in; the odds on Nathan were 10/11 (Stan James) so it looks like boxing fans are going more overboard about Kovalev than than the bookies.

[lefty]

I put a tenner down for Nathan, Enzo and Buckland to win; £80 odd back if it comes in; the odds on Nathan were 10/11 (Stan James) so it looks like boxing fans are going more overboard about Kovalev than than the bookies.

Yeah, im finding it hard to pick a winner in the Clev vs Kovalev fight but im just not 100% sold on Kovalev as of yet and I do think Cleverly is being underestimated by some on here.

[MightyWarrior]

Yeah really not sold on the Russian being such a terrific puncher. Sure the Campillo result looks brill on paper, but it could well be a case of very good matchmaking, to build up the Russian as a lethal puncher.
Check out the way Campillo drops stiff legged against Cloud ( not a great puncher )- very often the sign of a tough fighter who's getting wear and tear and not holding a shot too well any more.

So Kov looks a bit unproven here - maybe just heavy handed, and so far, it lools like Clev holds a shot very well. I'd class Tony Bellew as heavy handed too...

Always hard to be sure about un beaten punchers, but got the feeling Kov might be more hype than the real thing. Gonna be fun finding out

[whiskey]

First off white never knocked out Sukhotsky, it was a UD over 12 and some people think White got a gift decision in that fight. Secondly White was also knocked out in a round by Donovan George who's hardly a world beater.

Typo on the KO, i meant a decision.

And Donovan George is a good fighter. You obviously don't watch these fights and form your own opinions on them.

If you did watch White vs George you'd know that the shot that hit him nearly put his head into the front row. I couldn't believe he got up from it.

Donovan George has about 20 odd KO's from 24/25 wins or so. He took everything Adonis had to offer until the last round.

[palooka]

Has Kovalev been knocked down? Vince Cleverly has mentioned something.