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Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 25 Aug 2013, 09:31
by dempseyfire
Il Duce wrote:dempseyfire wrote:Undeserved controversy. Clay clearly won a just decision. Jones got outlanded and outhustled.
No way,,,,,,,,,
Doug Jones clearly out-worked Von Clay in that March 28, 1960 Light-Heavyweight bout
at St. Nicholas Arena.
Von Clay won the 1st-Round, but Doug Jones won the 2nd-Round 'Big' where he first he 'rocked' Von,
with a right-hand, and then floored him for a '3-Count' with a right-left-right to the head.
Doug maintained control in Rounds 3, 4 and 5 - where he continued to 'rock' Von Clay with fast
and potent 'left-rights' to the chin, including wobbling him on '3' separate occasions.
Von Clay came back in the 6th-Round, as he was able to land a few of his hard punches, including
a jarring right-hand to the chin that hook Doug pretty good.
In Round 7 Doug slowed down a bit, but he still 'rocked' Von Clay 'twice' in the Round with crisp right-hands
to the head to edge it out.
Round 8 was fairly close, as both fighters slowed their attack.
Von Clay rallied 'Big' in Round 9, and landed some good punches that shook the tiring Doug, including
opening another cut around the left-eye with a solid right-hand.
Entering Round 10, Doug had the lead on the Scorecards, and cruised in a defensive stance to protect
his two badly bleeding eye-cuts from getting worse. Von Clay was the aggressor in the 10th-Round, but
came up short in landing another big right-hand punch.
It was a well and hard fought battle, and a 'Fair' Unanimous 10-Round Decision.
I meant Cassius, not Von 8)
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 25 Aug 2013, 14:13
by ThatOne
1963-03-13 : Muhammad Ali 202½ lbs beat Doug Jones 188 lbs by UD in round 10 of 10
Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
Referee: Joe LoScalzo 8-1
Judge: Frank Forbes 5-4
Judge: Artie Aidala 5-4
Unofficial scorecards:
AP: 5-4-1 Jones
UPI: 6-3-1 Clay
Oakland Tribune: 5-4-1 Jones
Long Beach Press-Telegram: 7-1-2 Clay
UPI poll of 25 writers at ringside: 13 for Jones, 10 for Clay, and 2 even.
It was a clear case of some people expecting Ali to beat Doug Jones easier than he did so they went ahead and said he lost.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 25 Aug 2013, 14:49
by SteveO
The referee had it right :-)
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 25 Aug 2013, 15:38
by Woller
YES
Woller
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 25 Aug 2013, 17:39
by ThatOne
If that, or something else did it ("Sheer will, heart and guts did it," said Bill Faversham, Clay's manager), Clay had the gumption then to demonstrate how good a fighter he can be, and for the last three rounds looked, a little bit at least, like the fighter he says he can be. But once Clay had failed to knock Jones out in the fourth, as he had predicted he would, the crowd became blind to all his later efforts. Because Clay lost that fourth-round battle, too many convinced themselves that Jones won the war—which is illogical in any case and untrue in this one. Jones fought one of the best fights of his career, but Clay, fighting his worst, still got the fair decision.
Naturally, Clay's showing looked all the worse because he himself had contributed hugely to the idea that he is invincible. Gullible people, when they discover he is not, feel duped and turn against him. Clay is wise enough to know this—but to know at the same time that it is box office. For a week before the fight he worked on the nerves of New York and managed to sell out the Garden for the first time in six years.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 25 Aug 2013, 20:13
by p4p1
Well done Il Duce you sure got a few people suckered in there
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 15:13
by Giancarlo
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 29 Aug 2013, 15:30
by pound per pound
I had the fight 6-4 in favor of Ali over Jones. It was close. Watching on TV and live are differnt as you can hear the thud live, and sometimes judge by the quanity of the cllean shots depending on your vantage point.
Ali had some issues with good boxers. Patterson did well for a while vs Ali.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 29 Aug 2013, 15:54
by Giancarlo
Douchie, why don't you start a thread suggesting that if a fight goes to the scorecards the judges decide who they think won by studying the faces of the participants.
No need for round by round scoring then.
I believe Harold 'Scoop' McMillan former PM and moonlighting journo would be interested.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 31 Aug 2013, 08:19
by evrenb
Il Duce wrote:'EDDIE MACHEN RIPS DOUG JONES, UNDEFEATED RUN OVER'
#2 Heavyweight - Eddie Machen had an easy score last night, as he used his left-hand
like a 'Ram-Rod' to win a one-sided 10-Round Decision over the #1 Ranked 'undefeated'
Light-Heavyweight - Doug Jones.
The 29 year-old Heavyweight from the Northwest {197 lbs.} took control from the out-set,
and set the tone in Round 2 when he staggered Doug Jones {184 lb.} with a sharp right-hand
to the jaw.
24 1/2 year-old Jones was able to clear the cob-webs out his head, and made a fight out of it
during the Middle-Rounds, but Machen's {13 lb. weight advantage} was too much for the slick-boxing
to overcome.
Machen was able to stagger Jones again in Round 7, and then peppered his opponents face
with sharp left-hands until the 'Final Bell'.
Eddie Machen improves to 40-4-1, while Doug Jones loses for the '1st-time', and drops to 19-1-0.
Scorecards.......
* 98-94........{6-2-2 in Rounds}
* 100-93......{7-0-3 in Rounds}
* 99-95........{5-1-4 in Rounds}
The Associated Press scored the bout in Eddie Machen's favor 100-95.
Fight Promoter - Chris Dundee who was thinking of matching up 'Young' Cassius Clay with one of these
two fighters said that Eddie Machen would be too tough for 'Young Cassius' at this time, as he is
far too experienced.
Ollie Hackerman {Trainer for Doug Jones} - 'Eddie was just too big. Doug's punches just bounced off
him like 'Frozen Peas' bouncing off a frying pan. We're going back to Light-Heavyweight and are staying
there.'
Il Duce
I have found a film in my collection of Eddie Machen vs Brian London...I will watch it when I can and report it...thought you may be interested.
regards
evren
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 31 Aug 2013, 09:58
by evrenb
Well maybe if you didn't relate everything to 'cassius clay' you may get a more positive response?
Very interesting guy is Machen...
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 12 Sep 2013, 13:34
by ThatOne
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Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 19 Oct 2013, 19:10
by BoxBuzz
Test:
Can anyone name the fighter that the work "He" refers to within the title of this thread?
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 19 Oct 2013, 19:11
by ThatOne
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 29 Oct 2013, 21:36
by gilgamesh
BoxBuzz wrote:Test:
Can anyone name the fighter that the work "He" refers to within the title of this thread?
Wait a minute I know this.......was it...Joe Frazier?
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 00:31
by gilgamesh
For the record I just rewatched this Doug Jones vs Cassius Clay bout, and I scored it 6 rounds to 4 in favor of Clay.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 00:42
by gilgamesh
Il Duce wrote:gilgamesh wrote:For the record I just rewatched this Doug Jones vs Cassius Clay bout, and I scored it 6 rounds to 4 in favor of Clay.
Just for your information
The 'overwhelming majority' of the Ringside Reporters had it for Doug Jones.
That may be, I was simply stating the way I saw it. I thought both rounds 5 and 6 could've went either way. I scored the 5th for Jones and the 6th for Clay. It wasn't a fight that either man had in the bag after 9 rounds, and Clay definitely brought his A game into the 10th and tried to ass off to take that round...and he did.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 03:46
by Giancarlo
Il Duce wrote:gilgamesh wrote:For the record I just rewatched this Doug Jones vs Cassius Clay bout, and I scored it 6 rounds to 4 in favor of Clay.
Just for your information
The 'overwhelming majority' of the Ringside Reporters had it for Doug Jones.
Keep on bullsh1tting you eejit.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 05:53
by SolomonDeedes
Il Duce wrote:gilgamesh wrote:For the record I just rewatched this Doug Jones vs Cassius Clay bout, and I scored it 6 rounds to 4 in favor of Clay.
Just for your information
The 'overwhelming majority' of the Ringside Reporters had it for Doug Jones.
Wrong as usual. The Associated Press scored it 5-4-1 for Jones, but their poll of ringsiders went for Ali by 7 votes to 5.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 07:04
by SolomonDeedes
Il Duce wrote:
Solomon,
That was the Associated Press overview.
The New York Daily News had it the other way.......'with an overwhelming edge for Doug Jones'.
Do your research 'hack man'.
Both the UPI and AP reports confirm that the ringside press were evenly split on the scorecards. Your quote from the New York Daily News, which given your track record you've probably made up anyway, is irrelevant.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 07:46
by SolomonDeedes
Il Duce wrote:
You conveniently corrected yourself, much like 'Solomon', who was wrong more than he was right.
Nope. As I said, the AP poll had Ali ahead. But close enough that any reasonably fair-minded person can see that the fight was basically even.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 09:29
by SolomonDeedes
Il Duce wrote:You are aware, that Cassius was boo'ed out of Madison Square Garden that night, and they threw trash at him.
He was called a 'fake', phony and a fraud, they even called the but 'fixed'.
I see you've moved on from your claim that an overwhelming majority of the press saw Jones as the winner and prefer to burble on vaguely about Jones' hometown crowd being upset by the decision.
My work here is done.
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 09:50
by ThatOne
SolomonDeedes wrote:Il Duce wrote:You are aware, that Cassius was boo'ed out of Madison Square Garden that night, and they threw trash at him.
He was called a 'fake', phony and a fraud, they even called the but 'fixed'.
I see you've moved on from your claim that an overwhelming majority of the press saw Jones as the winner and prefer to burble on vaguely about Jones' hometown crowd being upset by the decision.
My work here is done.
DD
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 09:56
by ThatOne
AP: 5-4-1 Jones
UPI: 6-3-1 Clay
Oakland Tribune: 5-4-1 Jones
Long Beach Press-Telegram: 7-1-2 Clay
UPI poll of 25 writers at ringside: 13 for Jones, 10 for Clay, and 2 even.
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:22876
Since we are in the land of the absurd I added up all the rounds for Clay and Jones and those that were even.
32 for Clay...26 for Jones
/thread
Re: Doug Jones 'I Won and He Knows It'
Posted: 30 Oct 2013, 10:05
by BoxBuzz
Since this entire thread is so ambiguous.....I have to ask.....
Is this the "Von Clay" or Cassius in this case?
It started out as Von.......and it wobbles back and forth......
So this whole thread is meant to be sort of a red herring at all times I guess.