BoxRec

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 09:27**

Since I'm on a roll it wasn't Muhammad Ali who stopped the fight. It wasn't even Angelo Dundee. It was his manager. Herbert Muhammad, who was sitting in the fifth row who had seen enough.

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 09:34**

Ali was cooked at that point but the fact he was walking around at 250 pounds isn't dispositive. Lots of fighters walk around at weights even fuirther removed from their fighting weights. I don't get it and I'm sure it's not optimum for their health or performance.

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 10:26**

What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?

Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?

That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?

If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 10:43**

yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?

Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?

That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?

If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?

Hi

I think Holmes held back somewhat. I think Holmes was shocked that Ali was so weak and uncompetitive. Ali was in early stages of parkinson syndrome. Saw an interview not long after this fight and he was very slow mechanically and was definitely suffering from some cognitive impairment.
It is funny you say that about people being mad at Larry. . . my mothers least favourite fighter (and she is quite a boxing fan) is Larry Holmes. When I ask her why...well you know the answer lol

evrenb

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 11:07**

a;lsdayuriujelak laoeuivnaoiuv;aoweiurv;alwnaourvn

your left handed

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 11:27**

yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?

Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?

That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?

If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?

You have to ask Tyson. Larry was conflicted. But Giachetti told him he needed to get Ali out of there. Larry went up to Ali's suite after the fight to tell him he loved him and he taught him everything he knows. Ali asked him then why did you beat me up like that.

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 11:34**

ThatOne wrote:
yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?

Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?

That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?

If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?

You have to ask Tyson. Larry was conflicted. But Giachetti told him he needed to get Ali out of there. Larry went up to Ali's suite after the fight to tell him he loved him and he taught him everything he knows. Ali asked him then why did you beat me up like that.

lol that cracks me up. .

I remember prior to the Holmes vs Tyson fight, Ali was introduced to the audience and then walked over to Mike and whispered something in his ear...hmm wonder what that was...

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 11:36**

evrenb wrote:
ThatOne wrote:
yancey wrote:What are the opinions of Larry's effort during the fight?

Did he hold back out of respect for Ali?

That is what I've always believed. Am I mistaken?

If that was the case, why would anybody be mad at Larry and want revenge?

You have to ask Tyson. Larry was conflicted. But Giachetti told him he needed to get Ali out of there. Larry went up to Ali's suite after the fight to tell him he loved him and he taught him everything he knows. Ali asked him then why did you beat me up like that.
lol that cracks me up. .

I remember prior to the Holmes vs Tyson fight, Ali was introduced to the audience and then walked over to Mike and whispered something in his ear...hmm wonder what that was...

Tyson explained that he was 14 when D'Amato took him and Jay Bright, a longtime member of Tyson's inner circle, from their home in Catskill, N.Y., to Albany to watch on closed circuit as Holmes retained the title in a 1980 destruction of the faded Muhammad Ali. Tyson even recalled the exact date: Oct. 2.

"I was offended by how bad he beat up Ali," Tyson said. "When we drove home to Catskill [about an hour from Albany], nobody in the car said a word, we were all so upset. The next morning, Cus was on the phone with Muhammad Ali after taking this shellacking from Holmes. He said to Ali, 'I have this young black kid who is going to be heavyweight champion someday and I want you to talk to him.'"

Tyson got on the phone and said he told Ali, "'When I grow up, I'll fight Holmes and I'll get him back for you.' I was 14 at the time."

When Tyson did meet Holmes seven years later, Ali was a guest at the fight. Tyson said Ali whispered to him beforehand, "Remember what you said -- get him for me."

http://espn.go.com/blog/dan-rafael/post ... eer-boxing

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 11:59**

evrenb wrote:Im not anyones buddy, especially a 'blow buddy'...what a ghastly thought. .do you have to be so smutty? And making sweeping, unsubstantiated remarks is hardly endearing....is it?

For a 70 year old, he has a very dirty mouth.

Just pray he doesn't start hounding you with PMs...

Posted: **01 Sep 2013, 22:53**

Makes you wonder why one of these guys didn't say something when he started training for the fight.

Posted: **02 Sep 2013, 00:52**

Il Duce wrote:
p4p1 wrote:Makes you wonder why one of these guys didn't say something when he started training for the fight.
I think Mr. Angelo Dundee should have made the 'Hard, but right decision', by telling
Muhammad Ali in the corner between Rounds 5 and 6, I'm letting it go 'One More Round',
and if I don't see anything, I'm stopping it.

Instead, he made the 'Easy, wrong decision', by letting his fighter go back out there
with nothing but a 'broken spirit'.

Even the chants of 'Ali, Ali, Ali' by the fans was 'half-hearted'.

having only ever watched a small amount of the fight(didn't really see the point/need to continue watching.) I have no idea how bad it gets but if the first couple of rounds were an indicator I would imagine it only got worse. Trainers are stuck in such a shit situation when it is like that, especially a white trainer when Ali had his team and Don King running the show I it would make it extra shitty. I do wonder if maybe he wanted to stop it earlier but was told not to or else, those kind of tactics I wouldn't put past King or Herbert Muhammad.

Posted: **02 Sep 2013, 03:11**

Holmes/Ali in Rio...interesting.

Posted: **02 Sep 2013, 10:34**

p4p1 wrote:Makes you wonder why one of these guys didn't say something when he started training for the fight.

They did. Dundee didn't want to work the fight, and tried to talk him out of it. He claims he only took the job in the end because he was sure Ali would fight anyway, and figured at least if he was there, he could do his best to protect him. I don't know about Bundini.

Posted: **02 Sep 2013, 16:26**

Il Duce wrote:
Rover wrote:Holmes/Ali in Rio...interesting.
Yes, and in a 165,000 seat capacity Stadium for July 11, 1980.

But, the Brazilian Boxing Commission had scouts checking out the condition of
Muhammad Ali in May 1980.

The report back,,,,,,,,,,,,Muhammad Ali ........FALA SERIO !

Wow, if that stadium had been filled it would've shattered the Chavez/Haugen attendance record.

Posted: **02 Sep 2013, 18:19**

Il Duce wrote:Between Rounds 5 and 6,

Muhammad Ali was 'totally dejected', as every trick and ploy he had tried failed miserably.

The look on his face was one of 'defeat', and he still had 10-Rounds to go.

The skills were no longer there, and he had tried to fool himself into thinking that some
kind of 'Magic' would be sprinkled on him to give him special powers to defeat a younger,
faster and stronger man.

In the corner, Chief Second - Angelo Dundee had 'nothing', other than to wipe Muhammad Ali's
face and douse him with some Ice Cold water.

The only voice from Mr. Dundee, was 'Are you all right Muhammad.'

Anybody with a sense of compassion knew Muhammad Ali was looking for someone to help him
by ending this senseless beating.

From the former Champion, no response and absolutely no joy in his face. As Drew 'Bundini' Brown
uttered a few words of encouragement, the look in Muhammad Ali's face was one of 'bleakness'.

Even before Round 6 had started, Broadcast Announcer - Howard Cosell said that the bout was
'No Contest', and that the only friend Muhammad Ali had was the 'Ropes'.

You seem to be a boxing historian. Can you please give the rest of us the scuttlebutt on Holmes-Spinks l, Holmes-Spinks ll, Holmes-Tyson, Holmes-Holyfield, Holmes-McCall, Homes-Nielsen, and of course, Holmes-Esch.

Posted: **02 Sep 2013, 18:38**

ThatOne wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Between Rounds 5 and 6,

Muhammad Ali was 'totally dejected', as every trick and ploy he had tried failed miserably.

The look on his face was one of 'defeat', and he still had 10-Rounds to go.

The skills were no longer there, and he had tried to fool himself into thinking that some
kind of 'Magic' would be sprinkled on him to give him special powers to defeat a younger,
faster and stronger man.

In the corner, Chief Second - Angelo Dundee had 'nothing', other than to wipe Muhammad Ali's
face and douse him with some Ice Cold water.

The only voice from Mr. Dundee, was 'Are you all right Muhammad.'

Anybody with a sense of compassion knew Muhammad Ali was looking for someone to help him
by ending this senseless beating.

From the former Champion, no response and absolutely no joy in his face. As Drew 'Bundini' Brown
uttered a few words of encouragement, the look in Muhammad Ali's face was one of 'bleakness'.

Even before Round 6 had started, Broadcast Announcer - Howard Cosell said that the bout was
'No Contest', and that the only friend Muhammad Ali had was the 'Ropes'.
You seem to be a boxing historian. Can you please give the rest of us the scuttlebutt on Holmes-Spinks l, Holmes-Spinks ll, Holmes-Tyson, Holmes-Holyfield, Holmes-McCall, Homes-Nielsen, and of course, Holmes-Esch.

I like boxing history, but Holmes/Butterbean...no thanks.:)

Posted: **03 Sep 2013, 20:25**

Giancarlo wrote:HomoHenry, are you the only "pro boxer" who has never actually landed a punch on an opponent?

You notice I put the term "pro boxer" in inverted commas, my dull friend?

That's because buying a licence thru the mail without any experience even of sparring, begging 6th rate 'trainers' to get you a fight, annoying them so much with your blow-hard "get me anybody" bluster over the 'net that they put you forward against a guy who was a real pro boxer, does not make you a pro boxer. It makes you a jackass.

And call me a racist again and I'll be putting my boot right up your big fat stupid manic-depressive hillbilly arse.

Jesus Bless indeed!

#1- I actually landed one (lol)

#2- Of course I do, but then again where are any of your fights to be viewed and be open to criticism?

#3- I got my license at an mma event in Celina, Ohio. I dont recall begging anyone, but saying "Hey, if you really are doing these novice pro fights in Arkansas sign me up!".... and hey, some people commended me for facing who I did, said I had balls the size of grape fruits---- I cant say the same of others (including yourself) who probably never taken a risk in your life.

#4- And you are a racist, a bigot and a homophobe. Now what are you going to do? If you feel frog, just leap.... through the computer screen

And yes, Jesus help you.

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 05:15**

Your obvious relish at the spectacle of an old, sick fighter taking a beating is truly creepy.

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 05:42**

SolomonDeedes wrote:Your obvious relish at the spectacle of an old, sick fighter taking a beating is truly creepy.

Aint that the truth!!!!

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 06:55**

hes the david starkey of boxing history

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 08:59**

Ali probably picked his nose on the way to the ring and wiped it on the back of someone's seat. thats the real Ali for you.

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 10:51**

Il Duce wrote:
funso banjo baby wrote:Ali probably picked his nose on the way to the ring and wiped it on the back of someone's seat. thats the real Ali for you.
I think you're taking this much too personal.

When you pull a 'charade' on the buying public, you become 'fair game'.

The mind was willing. The body wasn't.

Do you really think a few bad fights at the end of a career can undermine a career that saw victories over three other top ten all time greats and seven International Boxing Hall Of Fame members?

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 10:57**

ThatOne wrote:
Il Duce wrote:
funso banjo baby wrote:Ali probably picked his nose on the way to the ring and wiped it on the back of someone's seat. thats the real Ali for you.
I think you're taking this much too personal.

When you pull a 'charade' on the buying public, you become 'fair game'.
The mind was willing. The body wasn't.

Do you really think a few bad fights at the end of a career can undermine a career that saw victories over three other top ten all time greats and seven International Boxing Hall Of Fame members?

Look, you dont get it man.
this Clay character might have very well have wiped his bogey on someone's seat, it could have got all onto a ladies fur coat 'or worse'.

why cant people understand this ?

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 14:24**

Il Duce wrote:End of Round 6,

It was 'over'.

Any thought that Larry Holmes would punch himself out {which the Muhammad Ali Camp was
hoping for} was just silly and foolish thoughts.

In Round 6, Larry fought an extremely intelligent and brilliantly executed session. A Round that
still 'Marvels-the-Mind'.

Larry landed '29' solid left-jabs, while pawing-and-measuring with another '10' over the last
40-Seconds.

Larry sent in '13' hard left-hooks, and topped it off with '12' jarring right-hands.

The 'first' right-hand that Larry threw, was a jarring punch that landed at the {1:23 Mark}.

A calculated and an extremely efficient '54-Punch' total, with only a minimal amount of wasted
punches.

On the other side of the Ring, Muhammad had one of his better Rounds, but landed only '14'
light left-jabs, and '2' snappy lefts in the session. Muhammad only attempted 'one' hard punch,
a left-hook that was wild-high and went over Larry's head.

Muhammad did not attempt to throw his 'secret weapon' once, the right-hand lead.

As Angelo Dundee sat quietly on the top step near the Muhammad Ali's corner, he could only
search his mind for 'once what was'. There would be no 'Magic' tonight, and he knew it.

This was no old guy Muhammad was fighting, or a big lumbering heavy armed fighter,
or even an inexperienced fighter who would punch himself out. Muhammad was fighting a
'brilliant technician' who could care less if he knocked Muhammad out.

Muhammad's 'chatter buddy' Drew 'Bundini' Brown could only yell 'hollow words' of encouragement
from far away in the distance, as he had no 'catchy phrases' anymore. No 'Lucky Charms',
no 'Incantations', and unable to 'Cast a Magic Spell' from any Words-of-Wisdom.

Can you give us the scuttlebut on this bout please:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OqUX87c8Ak

Posted: **04 Sep 2013, 16:41**

And 31 of those posts are yours

BoxRec

Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'

Re: Larry Holmes vs. Muhammad Ali 'Stop the Fight'

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