BoxRec

I think ali was suffering from parkinsons earlier in the 1970's...on some interviews you can hear him slurring...post FOTC....that fight was brutal man...so was Manila...whether the two (punch drunk) and Parkinsons are connected..maybe not...but he may be suffering from both...

gilgamesh wrote:He's undoubtedly in the Top 5. I wouldn't put him ahead of Ali though even if I were counting him. I mean Ali stood up to shots from Foreman and Shavers for f*ck's sake.

The same Ali was basically knocked out by retired Jimmy Ellis using large sparring gloves.

Senya13 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:He's undoubtedly in the Top 5. I wouldn't put him ahead of Ali though even if I were counting him. I mean Ali stood up to shots from Foreman and Shavers for f*ck's sake.

The same Ali was basically knocked out by retired Jimmy Ellis using large sparring gloves.

???

Is that a reference to a sparring session, because if so. It doesn't matter.

Il Duce wrote:Muhammad Ali,

On the ability to absorb a 'punch' without going down.

It cannot be debated, as he had had an incredible ability to take a solid punch
and stay on his feet.

Even getting staggered from a punch to the chin, Muhammad is definitely in
the Best of the Group.

Oh my God, Il Duce gives a positive comment on Muhammad Ali.

gilgamesh wrote:Is that a reference to a sparring session, because if so. It doesn't matter.

Why exactly does it not matter? He left his chin home for sparring?

Why doesn't sparring matter? Are you serious? Mark Sanchez might throw 9 TD's at practice, but nobody gives a shit. It's the same thing. Not to mention why would anybody care about unsubstantiated rumors? Ali fought Ellis and he slaughtered him. That's what matters.

The shot he took from Shavers at the end of the second round was ridiculous. Foreman never really hit him flush with anything to the chin, but Earnie landed his home run shot. Amazing he didn't go down and lucky for him it was at the bell.

So those two hard knockdowns after which Ali's trainer took him off, never happened? I suppose you will say McCall's how many rounds of sparring with Tyson don't mean anything either when evaluating his chin? Yeah, right, go on ignoring any facts that don't suit your view.

Always love the tales from the gym. Funny, you never hear that two guys sparred and nothing noteworthy happened.
No, nothing that supposedly happens in sparring matters, exhibitions don't count either for that matter.

Senya13 wrote:So those two hard knockdowns after which Ali's trainer took him off, never happened? I suppose you will say McCall's how many rounds of sparring with Tyson don't mean anything either when evaluating his chin? Yeah, right, go on ignoring any facts that don't suit your view.

No sparring matters in evaluating a fighter. Not one second of any sparring session that has ever occurred. It's not a matter of my views, it's a matter of common sense.

It's not about evaluating a fighter, it's about evaluating their chins.

Senya13 wrote:It's not about evaluating a fighter, it's about evaluating their chins.

Evaluating a chin is evaluating a fighter.

So a fighter who gets dropped in every sparring he takes part in, but who doesn't get dropped or stopped once in his whole career has a top notch chin, did I get that right?

My imagination is not good enough to imagine even ancient Oliver McCall getting knocked down even by prime Jimmy Ellis. Even if you put three Jimmy Ellises in the ring at once, I don't think they could put McCall down with legal punches.

Senya13 wrote:It's not about evaluating a fighter, it's about evaluating their chins.

Fighter's chins get tested plenty in their official bouts. Sparring doesn't matter, it's Practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iJQ4eR_vHs

Senya13 wrote:So a fighter who gets dropped in every sparring he takes part in, but who doesn't get dropped or stopped once in his whole career has a top notch chin, did I get that right?

My imagination is not good enough to imagine even ancient Oliver McCall getting knocked down even by prime Jimmy Ellis. Even if you put three Jimmy Ellises in the ring at once, I don't think they could put McCall down with legal punches.

Yes you got that right. If he was never dropped or stopped in his whole career, his chin held up when it mattered most, and that's all the record books will concern themselves with.

Senya13 wrote:So a fighter who gets dropped in every sparring he takes part in, but who doesn't get dropped or stopped once in his whole career has a top notch chin, did I get that right?

My imagination is not good enough to imagine even ancient Oliver McCall getting knocked down even by prime Jimmy Ellis. Even if you put three Jimmy Ellises in the ring at once, I don't think they could put McCall down with legal punches.

Once you start ignoring anything that happened in sparring you'll have it right. As for the analogy, a fighter that was never dropped or stopped would be difficult to call chinny.

I see no point to continue then. It reminds me of a saying, one case of adultery is not an adultery at all.

Senya13 wrote:I see no point to continue then. It reminds me of a saying, one case of adultery is not an adultery at all.

Terrible analogy, but I do agree that you should let this go. No need for further embarrassment.

Embarassment? I don't think Ali was embarassed in the least, with his self-ego, to be dropped like that. He must have had the same way of thinking as you. Even if I, while in my prime, the heavyweight champions of the world, get dropped hard by a 60 years old minimumweight retired for 30 years with a record of 0-100(100KO)-0 in each of 100 rounds of sparring, that doesn't count for anything.

Senya13 wrote:Embarassment? I don't think Ali was embarassed in the least, with his self-ego, to be dropped like that. He must have had the same way of thinking as you. Even if I, while in my prime, the heavyweight champions of the world, get dropped hard by a 60 years old minimumweight retired for 30 years with a record of 0-100(100KO)-0 in each of 100 rounds of sparring, that doesn't count for anything.

For one thing it wouldn't happen, but no it wouldn't matter because Sparring doesn't count for anything. What's so hard to understand about this? Fighter's legacies are not made in sparring. They're made in Professional fights.

I see Oliver McCall as having a great chin because he's never been dropped or stopped in a Professional fight. I don't give a rat's ass that Tyson never dropped him in sparring. It's irrelevant.

Just like if a guy supposedly whipped so and so's ass in sparring 5 times, but then lost to him when they fought Professionally. You know what that amounts to? He's 0-1 against him.

He couldn't beat him when it mattered. That's all anyone will remember or care about, and that's all they should care about.

evrenb wrote:I think ali was suffering from parkinsons earlier in the 1970's...on some interviews you can hear him slurring...post FOTC....that fight was brutal man...so was Manila...whether the two (punch drunk) and Parkinsons are connected..maybe not...but he may be suffering from both...

The Parkinson's Syndrome was brought about by the result of repeated trauma to the brain, although Ali was predisposed to the condition as his father had the disease too.

I also believe that Ali had Parkinson's Syndrome long before it was officially announced.

His speech was much quieter by about 1977/78 & his face didn't have as much 'life' as previously.

I read he was even taking Dopamine in 1980 before fighting Holmes.

If this is true, how on Earth was that fight allowed to even take place?

Syntax Error wrote:

evrenb wrote:I think ali was suffering from parkinsons earlier in the 1970's...on some interviews you can hear him slurring...post FOTC....that fight was brutal man...so was Manila...whether the two (punch drunk) and Parkinsons are connected..maybe not...but he may be suffering from both...

The Parkinson's Syndrome was brought about by the result of repeated trauma to the brain, although Ali was predisposed to the condition as his father had the disease too.

I also believe that Ali had Parkinson's Syndrome long before it was officially announced.

His speech was much quieter by about 1977/78 & his face didn't have as much 'life' as previously.

I read he was even taking Dopamine in 1980 before fighting Holmes.

If this is true, how on Earth was that fight allowed to even take place?

$$$$$$$$$$$$ > Common Sense, and Human Decency

Syntax Error wrote:

evrenb wrote:I think ali was suffering from parkinsons earlier in the 1970's...on some interviews you can hear him slurring...post FOTC....that fight was brutal man...so was Manila...whether the two (punch drunk) and Parkinsons are connected..maybe not...but he may be suffering from both...

The Parkinson's Syndrome was brought about by the result of repeated trauma to the brain, although Ali was predisposed to the condition as his father had the disease too.

I also believe that Ali had Parkinson's Syndrome long before it was officially announced.

His speech was much quieter by about 1977/78 & his face didn't have as much 'life' as previously.

I read he was even taking Dopamine in 1980 before fighting Holmes.

If this is true, how on Earth was that fight allowed to even take place?

Very interesting...a bit off the thread I'm sorry but I guess it relates to Ali's chin..Syntax Error I feel even in 1974, on some interviews the slight slurring is noticeable....very sad for the great man.

evren

As if I didn't know that argueing with Ali's worshipers is completely pointless. They just ignore any logic or facts whatsoever, if the topic is something that can even so slightly hurt his rep. I give up, you win.

Senya13 wrote:Embarassment? I don't think Ali was embarassed in the least, with his self-ego, to be dropped like that. He must have had the same way of thinking as you. Even if I, while in my prime, the heavyweight champions of the world, get dropped hard by a 60 years old minimumweight retired for 30 years with a record of 0-100(100KO)-0 in each of 100 rounds of sparring, that doesn't count for anything.

Yes, you're embarrassing yourself and evidently you're not done yet.

Senya13 wrote:As if I didn't know that argueing with Ali's worshipers is completely pointless. They just ignore any logic or facts whatsoever, if the topic is something that can even so slightly hurt his rep. I give up, you win.

I'm a Frazier fan. This has nothing to do with Ali. Substitute any fighter you want and their sparring means dick.

As for giving up, you already claimed you were done. Try and stick to it this time.