Sonny Liston 'The Only Guy To Take A Dive, And Not Get Wet'

[gilgamesh]

And the Ali hate train keeps rolling along.

What next Il Duce? Tell us why else Ali isn't the man everyone thinks he is.

[BoxBuzz]

Nonsense Doozer

Sonny Liston attained championship status, this pleased him, he was proud of this achievement.

He did this greatly on his own. Through his own talent, skill, hard work and determination.

And he was good enough to manhandle many of his opponents.

He was not going to let this thing he had achieved be lost due to the whim of another person.

However, he was no match for his opponents determination in this case.

[gilgamesh]

Nobody's ever confused Sonny with a saint. Even boxing historians often talk about his mob connections and sh*t.

I don't doubt that he was "ungrateful", but it's not uncommon to hear that kinda stuff from a "former" manager or promoter. Most business relationships in Boxing end on a bad note.

[scallum]

[quotabout Duce"]

Ali beats him regardless if he takes dive or not. Too fast and big with grest Jab and chin

Whether Cassius could beat Sonny, in a 'real fight' will never be known.

The 'Nilon Brothers' {Advisors for Sonny Liston} were looking for 'two' big money bouts with Sonny Boy,
before dumping him.

After the 'rematch' with Floyd Patterson in 1963, the next bout was supposed to be against Ingemar Johansson
for September 1963 in Philadelphia, and one following with Cassius Clay for 1964.

Suggested bouts with Harold Johnson, {rematch with} Eddie Machen, Ernie Terrell and a {third bout with} Cleveland Williams
all fell way below the projected $$$ Gate estimations.

Some 'BOZOS' even tossed around a 'third bout' with Floyd Patterson.[/quote]
what about the Round Liston team cheated and put sum stuff on his gloves to blind Ali? Seems like team Liston was trying to win the fight , just came across a much superior boxer

[BoxBuzz]

As long as this "Hoax" is based on Sonny's internal personal weakness.....then that word can be utilized.

Verbage.....it's what's for dinner.

[yancey]

Sonny perhaps could not be bought, but was he possibly open to rental arrangements?

[scallum]

Mr. Scallum,

What 'stuff' are you talking about.

Remember the 'anchor punch' and 'Stepin Fetchit' in the Clay Liston II bout.

C'mon,,,,,,,,,,,Both fights were a 'Hoax'

So nothing got into the eyes of Clay causing vision impairment in first fight . Liston had his best round when Ali was handicapped by the vision impairment.

[ThatOne]

Sonny Liston was in the joint. Ask anybody who has spent time there who is the most feared guy in the joint and they will say it's the prisoner who has convinced other prisoners he's crazy. Sonny Liston bought into Ali's pre fight antics and thought he was crazy.

He said he could have got up in the second fight but didn't because he was in a defenseless position, having to put one hand on the canvas to get up. He was afraid Ali, who refused to go to a neutral corner, would hit him as he tried to stand up.

He saved himself an embarrassing beating, much like Roberto Duran in his second fight with Ray Leonard.

Ali was younger, bigger, faster, and much more athletic.

Again, what fighters with Liston's style bothered Ali?

Cutesy fighters and swarmers bothered the post exile Ali and that's it.

[ThatOne]

That One,

Please explain to us why the Clay - Liston II fight was switched from the Boston Garden {capacity; 17,000},
to the Central Maine Youth Center at St. Dominics Arena in Lewiston, Maine {Capacity; 3700}.

And only 2434 people showed up, to set an All-Time {lowest attendance} record for a Heavyweight Championship.

The only thing that went 'down' faster than Sonny Liston, was all the 'J & B Scotch' he was drinking.

Because the same geniuses who made James Douglas a 42-1 underdog against Mike Tyson didn't give Muhammad Ali a chance against Sonny Liston.

Next question, please.

[ThatOne]

Mr. That One,

I think you are getting the Liston - Clay bouts mixed up.

The 'second bout' in May 1965 "REMATCH' was thrown out of Boston, because the District Attorney found out
that there was going to be a 'Big Surprise'.

I would be happy to believe you if you can provide me with documentation that I can verify. If not you will excuse me for not accepting the word of a random internet poster.

Thank you in advance.

[ThatOne]

Do some research, and get back to me.........

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... QS5hXmtzpQ

I read your citation and all it demonstrated is that Sonny Liston was a hoodlum. That has never been in dispute.

That's where he developed his theory on how to deal with crazy, read unstable people, or people he believed to be crazy or unstable.

And anything more than three ellipsis points is superfluous...

[BoxBuzz]

Nothing that can be connected to the statement that it was meant to support.

This is becoming the M.O. or S.O.P. lol

[ThatOne]

Nothing that can be connected to the statement that it was meant to support.

This is becoming the M.O. or S.O.P. of a certain poster lol

"It is a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. Signifying nothing. "

[ThatOne]

I wouldn't sat Cassius Clay was crazy.

He was not that bright to be crazy.

He was evaluated to have borderline mental retardation.

He graduated in the bottom 1% of his High School Class, and that was with the teachers
giving him higher marks than he deserved.

I don't think he ever took the SAT as he was not college bound. I would argue he had a wit about him that was not conducive to conventional measurement but I don't think I could ever convince you of that.

[scallum]

I wouldn't say Cassius Clay was crazy.

He was not that bright to be crazy.

He was evaluated to have borderline mental retardation.

He graduated in the bottom 1% of his High School Class, and that was with the teachers
giving him higher marks than he deserved.

It just never ends with you and your hatred For Ali lol. Ali is only gonna become more beloved by the masses as he gets older and more folks appreciate the great stance he took against the Usa government lol

[BoxBuzz]

I don't see Hate from Il Duce....regarding Ali.

I do see that he gets a great chuckle from finding some of our buttons.

Buttons that we should perhaps be more in charge of.

Il Duce...what I do see, at least on one subject matter, is a never dissipating energy to muddy the waters, dilute the facts, poison the well, obfuscate, degrade, retard, and blur. Also I see tendencies to muddle, puzzle, bewilder and befuddle. I've even witnessed you being disingenuous, insidious, designing, perfidious and surreptitious.

However, I do not see hateful behavior.

Hmm did I mention truculent?

and finally, as would be expected, decidedly pugnacious.

[BoxBuzz]

Your response was ignominious, as I was not being provocative.

[BoxBuzz]

Then the best advice one can give is ...."look out".