BoxRec

palooka wrote: Maybe because Mr Powell's funeral was earlier this week?

He just thanked Powell in his statement this week, why is that in poor taste ?

jackukmma wrote:

palooka wrote:

jackukmma wrote:
He signed a contract with Warren promotions which no longer exists

did he sign it when he was in a dream state?

If the company he signs a contract with is folded and no longer exists it's fairly self explanatory that he no longer has a valid contract

It's possible to transfer the contracts and I'm sure there will be a clause in it that allows that to happen.

He signed a contract with Warren promotions which no longer exists[/quote]

did he sign it when he was in a dream state?[/quote]

If the company he signs a contract with is folded and no longeIr exists it's fairly self explanatory that he no longer has a valid contract[/quote]

Wasn't he happy enough to box Buckland on a big show though with all the trimmings? Wasn't he under contract then (and in the rebuilding after Selby wrecked him)? Did his contract evaporate? Can all the other boxers with a similar contract just up and walk as well?

If I'm brutally honest, the Smith I'm most interested in is already with Matchroom.

MightyWarrior wrote:

palooka wrote: Maybe because Mr Powell's funeral was earlier this week?

He just thanked Powell in his statement this week, why is that in poor taste ?

All we've seen is a public statement from Smith; we don't know all that's been said or done

On a more personal note, It is extremely disappointing that Stephen Smith has chosen to implicate the late Dean Powell in his grounds for termination, yet in his press statement yesterday he specifically thanked Mr. Powell for the work done on his behalf throughout his career. It is our opinion that the timing of this and the manner in which it has been conducted is in poor taste.[/quote]

which suggests that the grounds for his termination (private) and the public statement differ

palooka wrote:He signed a contract with Warren promotions which no longer exists

did he sign it when he was in a dream state?[/quote]

If the company he signs a contract with is folded and no longeIr exists it's fairly self explanatory that he no longer has a valid contract[/quote]

Wasn't he happy enough to box Buckland on a big show though with all the trimmings? Wasn't he under contract then (and in the rebuilding after Selby wrecked him)? Did his contract evaporate? Can all the other boxers with a similar contract just up and walk as well?[/quote]

W.promotions was folded after that show I believe.

jackukmma wrote:W.promotions was folded after that show I believe.

Correct.

jack - I imagine all the legal wranglings would give someone as stupid as me a headache and I can imagine that after 30 odd successful years in the boxing business that Mr Warren and his legal advisers do know what they are doing; if he'd got a load of fighters signed to company 'A' and then he folded it - before he folded it he would have transferred the fighters (and other expensive bits of kit) to company 'B'. Mr Warren is a wealthy individual and pays legal advisers and accountants 100's of pounds per hour for their advice; he's no fool.

On another note - I do belong to the credo of 'you dance with who brought you to the dance'. Smith hasn't had a bad ride from the looks of it and if he jumps ship at the (relative) top of the pile for a competitor then it doesn't look too good.

A slap in the face to Warren from Smith to get on the Matchroom goldrush gravy train. Thanks for the fights but the big time is over in the other camp.
How long before we see some members of Matchrooms ever expanding stable showing signs of discontentment. They can't keep them all happy (Team Frampton for example) and it couild just take a bad loss before they lose priority treatment.

Callum has had 8 fights in the space of Stephen having 2 fights.

And if I'm not mistaken, he was on shows and trained all the way and then they didn't happen.

On twitter he was absolutely raging about being cancelled off, so the writing has been on the wall it would seem.

Final round wrote:A slap in the face to Warren from Smith to get on the Matchroom goldrush gravy train. Thanks for the fights but the big time is over in the other camp.
How long before we see some members of Matchrooms ever expanding stable showing signs of discontentment. They can't keep them all happy (Team Frampton for example) and it couild just take a bad loss before they lose priority treatment.

I don't think Matchroom are there to keep them all happy, Eddie is a tv man he will put one against the other, and give sky and us fans real fights, if you don't meet the mark! the next man will.

[/quote]It's possible to transfer the contracts and I'm sure there will be a clause in it that allows that to happen.[/quote]

Contracts typically enure for the benefit of successors and assigns. Bunny's lawyers would always include this type of provision, given his track record of winding up companies.

palooka wrote:jack - I imagine all the legal wranglings would give someone as stupid as me a headache and I can imagine that after 30 odd successful years in the boxing business that Mr Warren and his legal advisers do know what they are doing; if he'd got a load of fighters signed to company 'A' and then he folded it - before he folded it he would have transferred the fighters (and other expensive bits of kit) to company 'B'. Mr Warren is a wealthy individual and pays legal advisers and accountants 100's of pounds per hour for their advice; he's no fool.

On another note - I do belong to the credo of 'you dance with who brought you to the dance'. Smith hasn't had a bad ride from the looks of it and if he jumps ship at the (relative) top of the pile for a competitor then it doesn't look too good.

Smith hasn't had a bad ride? He's had 2 fights in about 2 years. I'd have a bet that Callum has outearned him in the same period and he's sat thinking what the feck is going on here.

palooka wrote:He signed a contract with Warren promotions which no longer exists

did he sign it when he was in a dream state?[/quote]

If the company he signs a contract with is folded and no longeIr exists it's fairly self explanatory that he no longer has a valid contract[/quote]

Wasn't he happy enough to box Buckland on a big show though with all the trimmings? Wasn't he under contract then (and in the rebuilding after Selby wrecked him)? Did his contract evaporate? Can all the other boxers with a similar contract just up and walk as well?[/quote]

As long as they have a good lawyer yes. However you want to spin it Alledgedly has breached his side of the contract. He may think he's within his right to move contracts over to his new company but if the fighter has not agreed to this then it's a breach or contract. It's a short career. Bellew/Burns/DeGale all got out of there's fairly easily. This will be the same

Broadening out the debate here a bit, i think one of the factors that W arren fighters face is a bleak future in terms of what you are going to achieve in the sport before you retire.

Darren Barker, under W arren, would never have got that IBF title fight in Atlantic City. He went out there, won, and the world is his oyster in that he's got mainstream recognition, he's won a proper belt the hard way, all his fights will headline on sky sports and he's fighting proper opponents for proper titles. His promoter is clearing doing right by him. Obviously the trip to Atlantic City was a gamble but it was shxt or get off the pot time for Darren and his promoter lined up the life changing opportunity.

You could point to Delboy as evidence of what W arren can do for a boxers career and admittedly its impressive, but the problem is, he is doing it all in relative obscurity. i genuinely don't see how the b o x nation tv channel set up can EVER produce a british fighter in a massive fight for a massive purse. the TV money isn't there. it could only come from an overseas broadcasting partner like HBO. B o x nation is great for armchair fans, and its great for fighters on the way up, but when you look at the very limited and narrow viewership, there comes a point where you must think you've gone as far as you can.

When you step out from domestic and european title level, and enter the world stage for a proper title, there has to be big bucks to get you the fights, and home advantage. where is that going to come from with w arren these days ? he could deliver it under ITV and sky because of the money they put up. that has evaporated. b o x nation as a channel has a budget but you can see from what's happened throughout 2013 that he struggles to stage regular british shows with domestic level fights, let alone bringing over a world champ who would cost over a million quid.

i think this sort of consideration will make a lot of fighters conclude that the grass is greener at the other side.

jackukmma wrote:

palooka wrote:jack - I imagine all the legal wranglings would give someone as stupid as me a headache and I can imagine that after 30 odd successful years in the boxing business that Mr Warren and his legal advisers do know what they are doing; if he'd got a load of fighters signed to company 'A' and then he folded it - before he folded it he would have transferred the fighters (and other expensive bits of kit) to company 'B'. Mr Warren is a wealthy individual and pays legal advisers and accountants 100's of pounds per hour for their advice; he's no fool.

On another note - I do belong to the credo of 'you dance with who brought you to the dance'. Smith hasn't had a bad ride from the looks of it and if he jumps ship at the (relative) top of the pile for a competitor then it doesn't look too good.

Smith hasn't had a bad ride? He's had 2 fights in about 2 years. I'd have a bet that Callum has outearned him in the same period and he's sat thinking what the feck is going on here.

Six fights in two years if he fulfils his contract and fights at the History boys show.. He got knocked out cold in September 2011 and fought in Febuary and two more times in the space of five months. He then didn't fight for a year, injured?

JimJim2009 wrote:Broadening out the debate here a bit, i think one of the factors that W arren fighters face is a bleak future in terms of what you are going to achieve in the sport before you retire.

Darren Barker, under W arren, would never have got that IBF title fight in Atlantic City. He went out there, won, and the world is his oyster in that he's got mainstream recognition, he's won a proper belt the hard way, all his fights will headline on sky sports and he's fighting proper opponents for proper titles. His promoter is clearing doing right by him. Obviously the trip to Atlantic City was a gamble but it was shxt or get off the pot time for Darren and his promoter lined up the life changing opportunity.

You could point to Delboy as evidence of what W arren can do for a boxers career and admittedly its impressive, but the problem is, he is doing it all in relative obscurity. i genuinely don't see how the b o x nation tv channel set up can EVER produce a british fighter in a massive fight for a massive purse. the TV money isn't there. it could only come from an overseas broadcasting partner like HBO. B o x nation is great for armchair fans, and its great for fighters on the way up, but when you look at the very limited and narrow viewership, there comes a point where you must think you've gone as far as you can.

When you step out from domestic and european title level, and enter the world stage for a proper title, there has to be big bucks to get you the fights, and home advantage. where is that going to come from with w arren these days ? he could deliver it under ITV and sky because of the money they put up. that has evaporated. b o x nation as a channel has a budget but you can see from what's happened throughout 2013 that he struggles to stage regular british shows with domestic level fights, let alone bringing over a world champ who would cost over a million quid.

i think this sort of consideration will make a lot of fighters conclude that the grass is greener at the other side.

Haye-Chisora was arguably the biggest fight last year.

Darren Barker, under W arren, would never have got that IBF title fight in Atlantic City. He went out there, won, and the world is his oyster in that he's got mainstream recognition

Warren gets fighters world title fights at home, something Hearn seems unable to do. Barker doesn't have mainstream recognition, he's more or less a nobody.

he's won a proper belt the hard way

The hard way? Really? He fought some average fighters for vacant British and Commonwealth titles, then won 2 vacant European titles, lost to Martinez, beat Hope and Rotolo, then got another world title fight, not really the hard way.

You could point to Delboy as evidence of what W arren can do for a boxers career and admittedly its impressive, but the problem is, he is doing it all in relative obscurity. i genuinely don't see how the b o x nation tv channel set up can EVER produce a british fighter in a massive fight for a massive purse. the TV money isn't there. it could only come from an overseas broadcasting partner like HBO. B o x nation is great for armchair fans, and its great for fighters on the way up, but when you look at the very limited and narrow viewership, there comes a point where you must think you've gone as far as you can.

Right now the budget isn't there, but if allegedly gets onto Virgin Media or BT Vision with a deal similar to ESPN's then the viewership would increase tenfold with a huge increase in money.

When you step out from domestic and european title level, and enter the world stage for a proper title, there has to be big bucks to get you the fights, and home advantage

Hearn doesn't get fighters home advantage either and Warren is far more likely to stump up the cash.

let alone bringing over a world champ who would cost over a million quid.

Most champions wouldn't be after 7 figures to travel, even Tszyu who was top 5 P4P at the time came over for £2 million. £250,000 a quarter of a million would be easily enough to get someone like Narvaez over.

I know I'm in the minority here, but if I was a fighter, I'd go with Warren. He has a proven track record of developing fighters, although that will be likely depleted after the sad loss of Dean Powell, and gets fighters world title fights in there own backyard. Hearn has never done either, apart from Froch-Bute, when Froch was already a 2 time world champion and proven draw in Nottingham.

I know I'm in the minority here, but if I was a fighter, I'd go with Warren.

Well there's plenty of room in the stable

#earnwithhearn

Expe, you're talking historically, about W arren splashing the cash to bring over world champs. Who has he brought over since his TV channel started up ?

The point I was trying to make was that he's putting his money into the channel, instead of the money flowing the other way, which in the past has enabled him to bring champs over here. Scott Quigg was having home advantage until the Manchester show fell through, that's the sort of thing I'm on about.

I don't think he's created a single world champion since his channel started, and lots of his top fighters have left.

I'm not knocking the guy for the sake of it, he's got longevity and I hope his channel survives and prospers. I just think the channel has changed the business model somewhat and I can totally understand why fighters like Smith are jumping ship.

Naandrew wrote:#earnwithhearn

#earnnomoneywithbunny

JimJim2009 wrote:Expe, you're talking historically, about W arren splashing the cash to bring over world champs. Who has he brought over since his TV channel started up ?

The point I was trying to make was that he's putting his money into the channel, instead of the money flowing the other way, which in the past has enabled him to bring champs over here. Scott Quigg was having home advantage until the Manchester show fell through, that's the sort of thing I'm on about.

I don't think he's created a single world champion since his channel started, and lots of his top fighters have left.

I'm not knocking the guy for the sake of it, he's got longevity and I hope his channel survives and prospers. I just think the channel has changed the business model somewhat and I can totally understand why fighters like Smith are jumping ship.

Quigg is fighting for a vacant title though. Warren can't afford to bring anyone over right now, but Hearn, with the Sky TV money, can't get world champions to travel over here and has never created a world champion at any stage.

expe wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:Expe, you're talking historically, about W arren splashing the cash to bring over world champs. Who has he brought over since his TV channel started up ?

The point I was trying to make was that he's putting his money into the channel, instead of the money flowing the other way, which in the past has enabled him to bring champs over here. Scott Quigg was having home advantage until the Manchester show fell through, that's the sort of thing I'm on about.

I don't think he's created a single world champion since his channel started, and lots of his top fighters have left.

I'm not knocking the guy for the sake of it, he's got longevity and I hope his channel survives and prospers. I just think the channel has changed the business model somewhat and I can totally understand why fighters like Smith are jumping ship.

Quigg is fighting for a vacant title though. Warren can't afford to bring anyone over right now, but Hearn, with the Sky TV money, can't get world champions to travel over here and has never created a world champion at any stage.

Christ you let Warren off with so much. Why did Hearn get the contract over Warren? It wasn't all down to his dad.