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Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 09:53
by Ezzard
What I know is that in the 1980s none of the major magazines or writers put him in a top 10.
And in the comeback one punch against Moorer made a big difference...rightly so...
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 09:56
by ThatOne
Il bugiardo wrote:Original Poster's Question
Lets not go off on a 'rambling tangent', like Mr. That One always does,
The 'Thread Title' is about George Foreman, not Cassius Clay.....
I think most 'posters' have agreed that 'Big George' was a great puncher,
but may have not been good enough the hit the Top 10 {1968 thru 1977}
It was a 10-Year Career, that was 'impressive', but falls just outside of the Top 10,
and in the first tier of #11 thru #15.
But, if we took this vote in 1977, just after he retired.
Would 'Big George' have made the Top 10.
You hijacked this thread with an unprovoked attack on The GOAT. As long as the good lord allows me to draw the next breath I will not let allow such mendacity to go unaddressed, ergo:
"All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing..."
-Edmund Burke
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 10:00
by ThatOne
Ezzard wrote:What I know is that in the 1980s none of the major magazines or writers put him in a top 10.
And in the comeback one punch against Moorer made a big difference...rightly so...
Moorer got careless and paid the price. He was well , well ahead on two of the cards.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 10:52
by Tomasino
polecateddy wrote:Tomasino wrote:polecateddy wrote:A lot of heavies would have beaten the robot version that faced Ali. Thought out his comeback I would say on ability he was never one of the top five heavies of any given year. I would say no.
Hilarious!
You're just buying into a myth. Watch the fight. Foreman looks terrible!
I've seen a lot of foremans fights. You just come out with the biggest load of shite ever but it is funny. I hope you keep going with it.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 11:00
by ThatOne
I've seen a lot of foremans fights. You just come out with the biggest load of shite ever but it is funny. I hope you keep going with it.
-Tomasino
He didn't do anything different from when he
annihilated Joe Frazier and Ken Norton.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 11:02
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:Ezzard wrote:What I know is that in the 1980s none of the major magazines or writers put him in a top 10.
And in the comeback one punch against Moorer made a big difference...rightly so...
Correct,
Big George lost 'many points' for losing to 'slappy' Muhammad Ali'.
It was 'labeled',,,,,,,,,,'George Foreman 'lost' the fight. Not Muhammad Ali 'won' the fight.
All you had to do was watch Muhammad Ali vs. Chuck Wepner, and realize it was George who
was not a 'bright thinker' in the Ring in October 1974.
If a man gets run over by a car, he will usually get 'tired'.
Yes, because the fight against Chuck Wepner is an excellent example of what a motivated Muhammad Ali is capable of.
SMH
In the immortal words of Apollo Creed, "Il bugiardo, be a thinker and not a stinker."
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 11:12
by ThatOne
It was 'labeled',,,,,,,,,,'George Foreman 'lost' the fight. Not Muhammad Ali 'won' the fight.
-Il bugiardo
Many will see what happened in the Twentieth of May Stadium as an exposure of Foreman's deficiencies, of the self-defeating crudity and lack of imagination that had begun to drain him of both energy and resolution as early as the third round. But we are only aware of the extent of those weaknesses because Muhammad Ali refused to be impressed by the punching power of a man who had not been taken beyond the second round in his previous eight fights and who had annihilated the only two fighters ever to defeat Ali. Despite being in the best condition he has known since being forced out of boxing by the US government in 1967, Muhammad at the age of thirty-two may have had suspicions about the limits of his legs and wind but his decision to invite Foreman to crowd in on him must be seen as an astonishing act of calculated bravery. And his ability to function at maximum efficiency, without the slightest impairment of concentration, while the bombs were flying around his head in the early minutes, testifies to a fearlessness that even the prize-ring has rarely produced. And all this after turning back for his dressing-gown and arriving in the stadium less than half an hour before he was due to fight.
The man could pick flowers in a minefield and never miss a bloom.
http://www.kilmarnockacademy.co.uk/famo ... tagain.htm
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 12:12
by ThatOne
I have Big George in my top five.
Him, Ali, and Lewis are my favorite fantasy match up heavyweights.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 13:29
by Crease
It's close one... But on a head-to-head basis, I can't name 10 Heavyweights who would've definitely beaten a prime young George Foreman.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 13:31
by p4p1
Crease wrote:It's close one... But on a head-to-head basis, I can't name 10 Heavyweights who would've definitely beaten a prime young George Foreman.
This is very true
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 14:05
by Tomasino
ThatOne wrote:I've seen a lot of foremans fights. You just come out with the biggest load of shite ever but it is funny. I hope you keep going with it.
-Tomasino
He didn't do anything different from when he
annihilated Joe Frazier and Ken Norton.
I don't get how that's a reply to me?
I thought I'd made it clear that I completely disagreed with Polesmokerteddy....
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 14:22
by Hairy Arse
p4p1 wrote:I dare say vitali was possibly an ATG in his prime when Lewis beat him or at least closer to being prime than Lewis was.
Problem is, Votali isn't anything close to being a great fighter, let alone an ATG.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 16:09
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:p4p1 wrote:Crease wrote:It's close one... But on a head-to-head basis, I can't name 10 Heavyweights who would've definitely beaten a prime young George Foreman.
This is very true
Good Point,
Cassius got 'Lucky', and Little Jimmy Young just 'hung around long enough'.
Keep telling yourself that, Il
manichino , you might actually believe it
Many will see what happened in the Twentieth of May Stadium as an exposure of Foreman's deficiencies, of the self-defeating crudity and lack of imagination that had begun to drain him of both energy and resolution as early as the third round. But we are only aware of the extent of those weaknesses because Muhammad Ali refused to be impressed by the punching power of a man who had not been taken beyond the second round in his previous eight fights and who had annihilated the only two fighters ever to defeat Ali. Despite being in the best condition he has known since being forced out of boxing by the US government in 1967, Muhammad at the age of thirty-two may have had suspicions about the limits of his legs and wind but his decision to invite Foreman to crowd in on him must be seen as an astonishing act of calculated bravery. And his ability to function at maximum efficiency, without the slightest impairment of concentration, while the bombs were flying around his head in the early minutes, testifies to a fearlessness that even the prize-ring has rarely produced. And all this after turning back for his dressing-gown and arriving in the stadium less than half an hour before he was due to fight. The man could pick flowers in a minefield and never miss a bloom.
http://www.kilmarnockacademy.co.uk/famo ... tagain.htm
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 16:11
by ThatOne
Tomasino wrote:ThatOne wrote:I've seen a lot of foremans fights. You just come out with the biggest load of shite ever but it is funny. I hope you keep going with it.
-Tomasino
He didn't do anything different from when he
annihilated Joe Frazier and Ken Norton.
I don't get how that's a reply to me?
I thought I'd made it clear that I completely disagreed with Polesmokerteddy....
I was agreeing with you. I can understand why you would want to disassociate yourself from Il Mnichino's and pole's insipid comments.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 17 Oct 2013, 22:32
by Esquire
Knocking out Joe Frazier twice and Ken Norton once (both in spectacular fashion) goes a long way.
Winning a Gold Medal in spectacular fashion against the best the world had to offer goes a long way.
Sure, his post retirement accomplishments only add to his greatness, but he accomplished plenty during his first career.
To say he wouldn't have given any heavyweight in history hell during his first career would be an understatement. He was a monster, both before and after his ten year hiatus.
Foreman as a young man deserves a very high ranking regardless of his accomplishments during his comeback later in life.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 08:19
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:Test,
How long do, Rudi Lubbers and Chuck Wepner go against George Foreman.
The 'Proof is in the Pudding'
Muhammad Ali 'backed in' to the Heavyweight Championship in October 1974.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kind of like the 1964 'Best Rock & Roll Recording of the Year'
'Downtown' by Petula Clark winning over 'A Hard Days Night' by The Beatles.
Everybody asked...........'How the hell did that happen.'
That's the dumbest argument I have ever seen on a sports board.
What part of styles make fights don't you understand?
Joe Frazier couldn't last two rounds with George Foreman. Gregario Peralta took Foreman the distance. Using your method of evaluation Gregorio Peralta is better than Joe Frazier.
Or
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 10:36
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:I'm going by the 'time period'
Just a few months after Muhammad Ali 'hit the lottery', he looked Fabulous
against Chuck Wepner.
And Rudi Lubbers,,,,,,,,,are you kidding me.
That One,,,,,,,,,,,,are you sure you're 'not' working for Muhammad Ai.......
Like a lot of athletes, especially with those with nothing left to prove, Ali rose or sank to the level of his opposition
He turned George Foreman inside out and forty years later your fragile psyche still can't come to terms with it:
Archie Moore had a more sanguine view. He pointed out that the champion did not really have Ali on the ropes. Ali had placed himself there, which was quite different, and thus he was in the tradition of the great "rope fighters" like Young Jack Thompson, a welterweight champion of the '20s who used the ropes with the skill of a spider on the strands of his web.
Moore cleared his throat. He is extravagant not only polysyllabically but in the use of metaphor, and he had one to offer. "Ali swayed so far back on the ropes that it was like he was sitting in an old convertible Cadillac. The '54 model," he added, being very accurate about such things. "Now, George tried to enter from the side doors. But they were shut. So George began to bang at them, hitting at Ali's arms that had the elbows protecting his hips, on up to the gloves protecting the lower mandible. On occasion George struck Ali some tremendous blows on the upper cranium, causing Ali no little discomfiture. But Ali weathered that, and he cunningly convinced George that he couldn't punch and other such nonsensical things, until George began to behave like he actually believed it, until this tremendous puncher lost his power from punching at that Cadillac's doors and turned from an atomic force into a firecracker. "In short," said the great ex-fighter, "as they say in the idiom of Brooklyn, he blew his cool."
http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MA ... /index.htm
...
Many will see what happened in the Twentieth of May Stadium as an exposure of Foreman's deficiencies, of the self-defeating crudity and lack of imagination that had begun to drain him of both energy and resolution as early as the third round. But we are only aware of the extent of those weaknesses because Muhammad Ali refused to be impressed by the punching power of a man who had not been taken beyond the second round in his previous eight fights and who had annihilated the only two fighters ever to defeat Ali. Despite being in the best condition he has known since being forced out of boxing by the US government in 1967, Muhammad at the age of thirty-two may have had suspicions about the limits of his legs and wind but his decision to invite Foreman to crowd in on him must be seen as an astonishing act of calculated bravery. And his ability to function at maximum efficiency, without the slightest impairment of concentration, while the bombs were flying around his head in the early minutes, testifies to a fearlessness that even the prize-ring has rarely produced. And all this after turning back for his dressing-gown and arriving in the stadium less than half an hour before he was due to fight. The man could pick flowers in a minefield and never miss a bloom.
http://www.kilmarnockacademy.co.uk/famo ... tagain.htm
Excuse me if I go with the opinion of Archie Moore and IBHOF inductee, Hugh McIlvaney, and not some random guy on the internet whose only punch thrown in anger was at a girl.
Ali Bomaye.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 11:19
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:Easy there Pal, my friend Shirley can kick your ass any day of the week.
Now, get back to 'mowing' Muhammad Ali's front lawn.
George Foreman, was a big-swinging hitter, much like a Harmon Killebrew and Frank Howard
type baseball player.
Not good on contact or average, but when they caught it right, the ball was sent out
into 'orbit'.
But, when up against a 'junk-baller', they had trouble, as they nibbled at the corners and threw
'off-speed' stuff, throwing off their timing.
Muhammad Ali was a 'junk-baller', and his 'stuff' was best against big swingers.
See; Rudi Lubbers, Alonzo Johnson, Doug Jones, etc.
I wouldn't want to mow Ali's lawn because that would just mean one more member of the Il Duce clan is on welfare. There just aren't many jobs left for those who failed to graduate from high school. Well, at least jobs that don't require you wear an apron and hair net to work.
lol@me
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 11:22
by SaadOffTheDeck
Well, this thread has suffered an ugly death. Somebody should change the thread title to Ali wars, part M.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 11:29
by ThatOne
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Well, this thread has suffered an ugly death. Somebody should change the thread title to Ali wars, part M.
I started the thread. It was going well. I re-read it twice. I urge you to do it too...I wasn't the one who hijacked it , which is a violation of internet rules, regardless of what board you are one and what the topic is. If a certain poster is going to spam the board with lies about a boxer, especially an all time great boxer, then I'm just going to tell the truth.
Again, I urge any poster to see who hijacked it .
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 11:35
by SaadOffTheDeck
Read it again? LOL, this is my last click on it. It takes two to tango.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 11:41
by ThatOne
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Read it again? LOL, this is my last click on it. It takes two to tango.
I haven't started one Ali thread in years. I don't boot strap him into every thread regardless of how irrelevant he is to the topic.
But you're right It does "take two to tango." As long as a poster or posters besmirches the reputation of a great champion I will work tirelessly to restore his reputation.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 12:19
by stevedoc
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:BarryWashington wrote:Demps
Tyson & Lennox have to be Top 10
I see very little basis for Tyson in the top 10. It certainly isn't criminal to have him at 9 or 10.
Lennox is more proven, but again it doesn't
have to be. I have Lennox at 7 or 8, Mike 14 or 15.
i don't think lennox is more proven than tyson ,tyson never got KOd twice by average fighters while in his prime .
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 12:24
by evrenb
ThatOne wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Read it again? LOL, this is my last click on it. It takes two to tango.
I haven't started one Ali thread in years. I don't boot strap him into every thread regardless of how irrelevant he is to the topic.
Have you noticed how quiet he has been as no one risen to him in a few days? I do agree with Saad.
But you're right It does "take two to tango." As long as a poster or posters besmirches the reputation of a great champion I will work tirelessly to restore his reputation.
Re: Would George Foreman have been a top ten HW ATG
Posted: 18 Oct 2013, 13:12
by ThatOne
evrenb wrote:ThatOne wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Read it again? LOL, this is my last click on it. It takes two to tango.
I haven't started one Ali thread in years. I don't boot strap him into every thread regardless of how irrelevant he is to the topic.
Have you noticed how quiet he has been as no one risen to him in a few days? I do agree with Saad.
But you're right It does "take two to tango." As long as a poster or posters besmirches the reputation of a great champion I will work tirelessly to restore his reputation.
I respect your opinion and Saad's opinion. I also respect Edmund Burke's opinion who said "all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."