BoxRec

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Froch's chin is in a different stratosphere to Smith's. Froch has never come close to being stopped, even when he was decked by Taylor he was up and back to normal quickly. Froch can be hurt like any man, but nobody has ever managed to seriously hurt him, Kessler was a beast, and despite landing some wicked shots in their first fight, he was never able to put him away.

It's ludicruous to extrapolate from hurting someone like Smith, and then saying he'll do the same to Froch. If he's such a murderous puncher, how come he couldn't hurt Johnson? Froch's chin is on the same level of Johnson's.

genuinely nonplussed the amount of people going for Groves

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Froch's chin is in a different stratosphere to Smith's. Froch has never come close to being stopped, even when he was decked by Taylor he was up and back to normal quickly. Froch can be hurt like any man, but nobody has ever managed to seriously hurt him, Kessler was a beast, and despite landing some wicked shots in their first fight, he was never able to put him away.

It's ludicruous to extrapolate from hurting someone like Smith, and then saying he'll do the same to Froch. If he's such a murderous puncher, how come he couldn't hurt Johnson? Froch's chin is on the same level of Johnson's.

Even in the second fight in the 11th when Kessler buzzed him, he looked like he was on the verge of going but seemed to come straight back out of nowhere. Even when he does get hurt, he seems to have a crazy ability to recover very quickly.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Froch's chin is in a different stratosphere to Smith's. Froch has never come close to being stopped, even when he was decked by Taylor he was up and back to normal quickly. Froch can be hurt like any man, but nobody has ever managed to seriously hurt him, Kessler was a beast, and despite landing some wicked shots in their first fight, he was never able to put him away.

It's ludicruous to extrapolate from hurting someone like Smith, and then saying he'll do the same to Froch. If he's such a murderous puncher, how come he couldn't hurt Johnson? Froch's chin is on the same level of Johnson's.

He never landed THAT punch on Johnson. The punch was spectacular. When watching it, I didn't even know what had happen. That would have shaken, at the very least, anyone.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Froch's chin is in a different stratosphere to Smith's. Froch has never come close to being stopped, even when he was decked by Taylor he was up and back to normal quickly. Froch can be hurt like any man, but nobody has ever managed to seriously hurt him, Kessler was a beast, and despite landing some wicked shots in their first fight, he was never able to put him away.

It's ludicruous to extrapolate from hurting someone like Smith, and then saying he'll do the same to Froch. If he's such a murderous puncher, how come he couldn't hurt Johnson? Froch's chin is on the same level of Johnson's.

He never landed THAT punch on Johnson. The punch was spectacular. When watching it, I didn't even know what had happen. That would have shaken, at the very least, anyone.[/quote]

Smith kind of fell into the shot aswell though. I'm pretty sure Gallagher has said himself that it was aimed at the body but Smith sort of crouched down and went right into the path of it.

Groves didn't aim at the body, he brought it right round Smiths guard. It suits Gallaghers and Smiths agenda to claim a fluke shot.

Groves didn't go out to knock Johnson out, he was content to jab, move and smother - Groves has learnt different things in his fights and he doesn't have to be a better boxer than Ward, Dirrel, Taylor etc to beat Froch and he doesn't need to be as tough as Kessler to beat Froch. He has to mix things up, keep his nerve and do what he does well. Like Groves stated in the press conference - Froch isn't a deadly one punch hitter - many of his bouts go to points and many are pretty close.

I can certainly see why Froch is the favourite and I can also see that every PPV event needs a good guy and a heel; Froch would have grabbed the good guy role instantly and Groves has played his part and merely by pressing Froch he has got him wound up. Froch may be so eager to please -he's promised everyone a knockout and may be too eager to get it - I've seen that before.

G0mez wrote:

billy nelson wrote:

G0mez wrote:People regarded Lucian Bute as being fast, Carl matched him.

Bute simply froze in the night big time

I have to disagree Billy. He was buoyed by a few thousand Romanians, was full of beans and the first round was split. Carl stayed with him and then pulled the trigger and he was damaged. Then Froch ambushed him and game over.

On the subject of Bute, when Groves set out to make a massive statement on the Kessler undercard, against a fairly mediocre opponent in Noe Gonzales - their fight lasted the same length as Froch vs Bute did. Their respective quality is not even comparable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPkPJLgFHXU (18 mins onwards it starts)

The Bute win is overrated. Andrade already exposed Bute's glass jaw. Froch was to Bute what Garcia was to Khan. Froch's early super 6 performances lead me to believe that Groves has a legitimate shot at a decision win.

palooka wrote:Groves didn't aim at the body, he brought it right round Smiths guard. It suits Gallaghers and Smiths agenda to claim a fluke shot.

Groves didn't go out to knock Johnson out, he was content to jab, move and smother - Groves has learnt different things in his fights and he doesn't have to be a better boxer than Ward, Dirrel, Taylor etc to beat Froch and he doesn't need to be as tough as Kessler to beat Froch. He has to mix things up, keep his nerve and do what he does well. Like Groves stated in the press conference - Froch isn't a deadly one punch hitter - many of his bouts go to points and many are pretty close.

I can certainly see why Froch is the favourite and I can also see that every PPV event needs a good guy and a heel; Froch would have grabbed the good guy role instantly and Groves has played his part and merely by pressing Froch he has got him wound up. Froch may be so eager to please -he's promised everyone a knockout and may be too eager to get it - I've seen that before.

I watched the fight back a few days ago. He was primarily boxing and moving but he did have patches in the fight when he really was teeing off on Johnson and trying to get him out of there.

G0mez wrote:

billy nelson wrote:

G0mez wrote:People regarded Lucian Bute as being fast, Carl matched him.

Bute simply froze in the night big time

I have to disagree Billy. He was buoyed by a few thousand Romanians, was full of beans and the first round was split. Carl stayed with him and then pulled the trigger and he was damaged. Then Froch ambushed him and game over.

On the subject of Bute, when Groves set out to make a massive statement on the Kessler undercard, against a fairly mediocre opponent in Noe Gonzales - their fight lasted the same length as Froch vs Bute did. Their respective quality is not even comparable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPkPJLgFHXU (18 mins onwards it starts)

The Bute win is overrated. Andrade already exposed Bute's glass jaw. Froch was to Bute what Garcia was to Khan. Froch's early super 6 performances lead me to believe that Groves has a legitimate shot at a decision win.[/quote]

I somewhat disagree to be honest mate. Bute was more exhausted than hurt in that first Andrade fight. Well he was hurt obviously but exhaustion played a huge factor in that. Anyway regarding Bute being overrated, there's no proof that George is any better than Bute at this moment in time. Bute had beaten a better level of competition than Groves has up to now. He beat Bika in 2007 in a final eliminator for the IBF title and won pretty wide on points.

columbo wrote: The Bute win is overrated.

G0mez wrote:

columbo wrote: The Bute win is overrated.

I didnt say that lol

Is the Bute win Carls best?

palooka wrote:Is the Bute win Carls best?

I'd probably say the Kessler one is. You could argue the Dirrell one even but that was quite controversial.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Froch's chin is in a different stratosphere to Smith's. Froch has never come close to being stopped, even when he was decked by Taylor he was up and back to normal quickly. Froch can be hurt like any man, but nobody has ever managed to seriously hurt him, Kessler was a beast, and despite landing some wicked shots in their first fight, he was never able to put him away.

It's ludicruous to extrapolate from hurting someone like Smith, and then saying he'll do the same to Froch. If he's such a murderous puncher, how come he couldn't hurt Johnson? Froch's chin is on the same level of Johnson's.

Smith was gone with one big punch; he's had a long career and faced some decent hitters and never been hurt like that; it is not ludicrous to extrapolate that if Groves lands a similar punch on Froch that he will be hurt.

Those who think Groves can knock Froch out, you can get at least 11/1 - you should lump on it. I won't be!

SamWise72 wrote:Those who think Groves can knock Froch out, you can get at least 11/1 - you should lump on it. I won't be!

I don't think he can or will; I do think he'll hit him hard enough that Froch doesn't come marching in and I think Groves will attack the body a lot.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Froch's chin is in a different stratosphere to Smith's. Froch has never come close to being stopped, even when he was decked by Taylor he was up and back to normal quickly. Froch can be hurt like any man, but nobody has ever managed to seriously hurt him, Kessler was a beast, and despite landing some wicked shots in their first fight, he was never able to put him away.

It's ludicruous to extrapolate from hurting someone like Smith, and then saying he'll do the same to Froch. If he's such a murderous puncher, how come he couldn't hurt Johnson? Froch's chin is on the same level of Johnson's.

Smith was gone with one big punch; he's had a long career and faced some decent hitters and never been hurt like that; it is not ludicrous to extrapolate that if Groves lands a similar punch on Froch that he will be hurt.[/quote]
Who has Smith faced though that was a big puncher though really? I'm talking of a significant kind? He got stopped by Degale *Yeah I know it wasnt like the Groves stoppage* so his chin cant be that great.

palooka wrote: Smith was gone with one big punch; he's had a long career and faced some decent hitters and never been hurt like that; it is not ludicrous to extrapolate that if Groves lands a similar punch on Froch that he will be hurt.

With all due respect to smith if he was that durable Degale wouldnt have been able to stop him.

columbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

Yes, because Carl having been in with Ward, Bute, Taylor, Kessler etc will definitely not prepare him for this in the slightest so he's bound to be shocked by this whole new level of opponent.
Fortunately, by contrast GG has faced a range of world-class fighters to prepare him for Froch's strength, combination punching, ringcraft and experience.

Deserter, i'm not sure about you but I still think Froch get's underrated as a boxer somewhat. Don't get me wrong, he's not the slickest boxer you're ever going to see by any stretch but he works well behind his long jab and I dont think he's as easy to land on as some seem to think he is. I remember years back, someone trying to compare him with Librado Andrade who years back was an iron chinned guy but slow and clumsy a bit like Froch is. I always though Froch was more of a thinker in the ring than people give him credit for.

Yep, I'm with you completely - you don't win world amateur medals without being able to box a bit and he's shown that when he wants to he can box well at world level - Abraham fight being a perfect example and I was also went to his fight against Pascal and saw him make the mid-fight adjustments and switch to the jab to pull away and win it.

Groove Armada wrote:

palooka wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.

Massive International Superstars.

another good one Groove

Froch has put a lot of pressure on himself by predicting a knock out, he has shown himself up a bit in the build up - Groves hasn't disrespected boxing by not bowing to him. Froch likes to be in control and will make errors in the bout; Groves hits hard enough to hurt him and the madder Froch is the more likely it is Groves will find the target. Groves won't fold the first time he's hit, he's not been gifted a shot like Quiggs opponent.