BoxRec

Woad unifies then retires. Haye comesback to attempt the same?

jackukmma wrote:Woad unifies then retires. Haye comesback to attempt the same?

Im not sure Wlad wants to retire just yet. I think he's still enjoying it.

Horse wrote:

95gerog wrote:But I don't think Horse is saying Fury is better than Wlad?? Are you?

No.

What i'm getting at is, Haye arguably went into the Wlad fight expecting to lose. His whole fight plan suggested he never really believed in himself. Against Fury, losing would not be an option. His whole Hayemaker image and dreams of Hollywood would be in tatters. I think he planned to fight him the first time round, possibly felt not brilliant in camp(blame Spud), and had no intention of fighting in Feb. I know I have said it before, but the Fury camps insistence the fight would not happened made me sure it wasn't going to, and they were bang on.

mickey1975 wrote:

Horse wrote:

95gerog wrote:But I don't think Horse is saying Fury is better than Wlad?? Are you?

No.

What i'm getting at is, Haye arguably went into the Wlad fight expecting to lose. His whole fight plan suggested he never really believed in himself. Against Fury, losing would not be an option. His whole Hayemaker image and dreams of Hollywood would be in tatters. I think he planned to fight him the first time round, possibly felt not brilliant in camp(blame Spud), and had no intention of fighting in Feb. I know I have said it before, but the Fury camps insistence the fight would not happened made me sure it wasn't going to, and they were bang on.

How many fights did you go into knowing you couldn't win?

I don't follow, Keith?

mickey1975 wrote:

Horse wrote:

95gerog wrote:But I don't think Horse is saying Fury is better than Wlad?? Are you?

No.

What i'm getting at is, Haye arguably went into the Wlad fight expecting to lose. His whole fight plan suggested he never really believed in himself. Against Fury, losing would not be an option. His whole Hayemaker image and dreams of Hollywood would be in tatters. I think he planned to fight him the first time round, possibly felt not brilliant in camp(blame Spud), and had no intention of fighting in Feb. I know I have said it before, but the Fury camps insistence the fight would not happened made me sure it wasn't going to, and they were bang on.

There's not a chance, not a shred, that David went into that fight expecting to lose. To see him on the flight back home you could also see he was upset & p*ssed off, like a lot of boxers who lose to the better man on the night.

With regards Haye/Fury not happening, I was just as gutted as anyone else and again David was also gutted for himself and his fans as naturally he thought he would win.

columbo wrote:

jackukmma wrote:Woad unifies then retires. Haye comesback to attempt the same?

Im not sure Wlad wants to retire just yet. I think he's still enjoying it.

So he should enjoy it.

Makes millions every fight and knows there is nothing in the division to run him close. Easy money

You don't know his thoughts though, Spud, he is a Hollywood level actor after all. Regardless of what he said/looked like on the plane, he never fought with any self belief. Who knows, if he had gone for it things could have been different.

mickey1975 wrote:You don't know his thoughts though, Spud, he is a Hollywood level actor after all. Regardless of what he said/looked like on the plane, he never fought with any self belief. Who knows, if he had gone for it things could have been different.

To be fair Mickey, you don't know his thoughts either,

i was at that fight and i'm pretty sure i read somewhere you were too, we all had a bad night and Haye definately let himself down but i truly believe a man who was prepared to travel to Germany to face the champ, went there to win.

And i also believe that the same man would not try and duck Fury for whatever reason.

chad wrote:I have a nasty feeling Wladimir is going to get it as part of some BS unification fight.

Well I want the best fighters in the world to fight the world title... so I'd be glad to see Klitchsko fight for the WBC belt. I don't want to have another Povetkin scenario with no one believing this fighter is the champion.

Lets see Klitschko vs Wilder for the WBC title (Wilder aint ready I know, but lets see Klitchsko in with a fighter who some people might think stands a chance).

It's Arreola-Stiverne II.

mickey1975 wrote:You don't know his thoughts though, Spud, he is a Hollywood level actor after all. Regardless of what he said/looked like on the plane, he never fought with any self belief. Who knows, if he had gone for it things could have been different.

I think we're doing Wlad a bit of a disservice here Mickey. Wlad is pretty damn good. Haye tried to go for it a number of times but Wlad would just take a half step back and make David fall short.

No mention of Pulev. The way he held and hit, and cuffed Abell, would love to see someone be the mongoose to his cobra.

mickey1975 wrote:I don't follow, Keith?

Didn't you used to be a pro mickey? If so, how many fights did you go into 'expecting to lose'?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:I don't follow, Keith?

Didn't you used to be a pro mickey? If so, how many fights did you go into 'expecting to lose'?

Come on Keith, there are many boxers who go into a bout expecting to lose, there are many who train very hard and apply themselves and are realistic about their situation. Do you imagine that any of the top 10 100 meters sprinters expect to win v Bolt? If they don't turn up and try they don't get paid, they do their best but are relying on Bolt ballsing up to win. Top boxing is the same and though Haye is a competitor he didn't apply himself v Wlad and cannot have expected (or even hoped) to win like that.

palooka wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:I don't follow, Keith?

Didn't you used to be a pro mickey? If so, how many fights did you go into 'expecting to lose'?

Come on Keith, there are many boxers who go into a bout expecting to lose, there are many who train very hard and apply themselves and are realistic about their situation. Do you imagine that any of the top 10 100 meters sprinters expect to win v Bolt? If they don't turn up and try they don't get paid, they do their best but are relying on Bolt ballsing up to win. Top boxing is the same and though Haye is a competitor he didn't apply himself v Wlad and cannot have expected (or even hoped) to win like that.

Personally mate I think it was just a case of Wlad being better. That and the natural size advantage he has aswell.

I don't think I could name a fighter since Sanders who has expected to win v Wlad; it is a good payday for a beating and no real shame in getting beat - if no one else in the world expects them to win, how can the boxer expect to win? Haye knew how big Wlad was before the fight, he got millions for 'trying' so no harm done?!

palooka wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:I don't follow, Keith?

Didn't you used to be a pro mickey? If so, how many fights did you go into 'expecting to lose'?

Come on Keith, there are many boxers who go into a bout expecting to lose, there are many who train very hard and apply themselves and are realistic about their situation. Do you imagine that any of the top 10 100 meters sprinters expect to win v Bolt? If they don't turn up and try they don't get paid, they do their best but are relying on Bolt ballsing up to win. Top boxing is the same and though Haye is a competitor he didn't apply himself v Wlad and cannot have expected (or even hoped) to win like that.

Boxing is nothing like 100m running. You can't measure the abilities of a fighter with a stop watch. I'm sure there are plenty of fighters who've gone into every fight thinking they can win. Going in thinking/expecting to win does not guarantee winning. Haye's plan was to try an land the big right on the counter, he tried it an couldn't do it. He was fighting the #1 fighter in the division, a future hall of famer and he lost on points. There is no shame in that.

palooka wrote:I don't think I could name a fighter since Sanders who has expected to win v Wlad; it is a good payday for a beating and no real shame in getting beat - if no one else in the world expects them to win, how can the boxer expect to win? Haye knew how big Wlad was before the fight, he got millions for 'trying' so no harm done?!

Sorry mate, but that's bollocks. Buster Douglas wasn't expected to win, but look what happened there. No one else in the world expected Buster to win. He did.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

palooka wrote:I don't think I could name a fighter since Sanders who has expected to win v Wlad; it is a good payday for a beating and no real shame in getting beat - if no one else in the world expects them to win, how can the boxer expect to win? Haye knew how big Wlad was before the fight, he got millions for 'trying' so no harm done?!

Sorry mate, but that's bollocks. Buster Douglas wasn't expected to win, but look what happened there. No one else in the world expected Buster to win. He did.

That's an excellent point and an exception, it was also almost 25 years ago; of how many bouts since then can the same be said of? 10 a year?

Final round wrote:It's Arreola-Stiverne II.

Yup, ordered by the WBC today.

palooka wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

palooka wrote:I don't think I could name a fighter since Sanders who has expected to win v Wlad; it is a good payday for a beating and no real shame in getting beat - if no one else in the world expects them to win, how can the boxer expect to win? Haye knew how big Wlad was before the fight, he got millions for 'trying' so no harm done?!

Sorry mate, but that's bollocks. Buster Douglas wasn't expected to win, but look what happened there. No one else in the world expected Buster to win. He did.

That's an excellent point and an exception, it was also almost 25 years ago; of how many bouts since then can the same be said of? 10 a year?

Loads mate. Pretty much every fighter that ever lived lost fights. Do you think Toney, Hearns, Holyfield etc thought they were gonna lose in the dressing room before the fight?

David Haye believed he was going to beat Wlad and I think his confidence would have been shattered if he hadn't had the broken toe to blame for his less than stellar performance inside his own head.

I wonder if this has made him extra sensitive about not fighting unless 100%.

Final round wrote:David Haye believed he was going to beat Wlad and I think his confidence would have been shattered if he hadn't had the broken toe to blame for his less than stellar performance inside his own head.

I wonder if this has made him extra sensitive about not fighting unless 100%.

Say what you want about the broken toe, but......

ask every boxer on the planet if they'd rather fight with or without a broken toe and see what they say.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Final round wrote:David Haye believed he was going to beat Wlad and I think his confidence would have been shattered if he hadn't had the broken toe to blame for his less than stellar performance inside his own head.

I wonder if this has made him extra sensitive about not fighting unless 100%.

Say what you want about the broken toe, but......

ask every boxer on the planet if they'd rather fight with or without a broken toe and see what they say.

I'd imagine the sensible ones would say without the broken toe?