BoxRec

Controversial wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:
0 points for beating an opponent that wasn't, to be nice, very good. So for example, Marciano got 0 for beating Cockell

Trouble is these are open to interpretation. Cockell was actually a decent fighter, albeit better at LHW and actually was holding his own against Marciano in the early rounds. He beat Roland La Starza, Harry Matthews (x3), Tommy Farr, Freddie Beshore and at LHW he beat top contender Lloyd Marshall (x2). Granted he wasn't as good as he used to be but I wouldn't say he wasn't very good.

He took Marcianos shots as well as any fighter. Ezzard Charles said Marciano could hurt you hitting your arms and shoulders.

Controversial wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:
0 points for beating an opponent that wasn't, to be nice, very good. So for example, Marciano got 0 for beating Cockell

Trouble is these are open to interpretation. Cockell was actually a decent fighter, albeit better at LHW and actually was holding his own against Marciano in the early rounds. He beat Roland La Starza, Harry Matthews (x3), Tommy Farr, Freddie Beshore and at LHW he beat top contender Lloyd Marshall (x2). Granted he wasn't as good as he used to be but I wouldn't say he wasn't very good.

Well yes, it's open to interpretation. There are always going to be borderline calls. However, I thought it was system that made sense and is certainly better than just saying one guy was the best without any real reasoning. And it is better than going by win/loss records or the weights of the opponents.

As for Cockell, looking at his overall career, I didn't think Cockell was that good of a fighter. Farr for example was way past it when Cockell beat him. But sure you could give Marciano a point for beating him.

Try rating their defenses yourself and see what you come up with. (3 points for a successful defense over a fighter who is great at the time, 2 points vs a very good opponent, 1 for a decent opponent and 0 for someone who really wasn't very good.) It is actually kind of fun.

To be fair the average weights, win/loss etc was more out of curiosity and personal interest, I wasn't trying to insinuate anything by them. As an example I forgot that Louis was as light as he was. I can see what you were doing, not a bad idea, I just thought I stick up for Cockell a bit as he has the fat and useless tag which I think is a tad unfair.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:On the best day of his life, Page couldn't beat a 45 year old Holmes.

Maybe, I doubt it.But ain't it funny, that the slightly past-his-prime 33-to-34 year old version didn't want no parts of him.Reason: Potential ass-whuppin' and humiliation from the Louisville Rage.Believe that!
DD

Nile4000 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:On the best day of his life, Page couldn't beat a 45 year old Holmes.

Maybe, I doubt it.But ain't it funny, that the slightly past-his-prime 33-to-34 year old version didn't want no parts of him.Reason: Potential ass-whuppin' and humiliation from the Louisville Rage.Believe that!
DD

It's certainly funny that you believe that.

A lot of the "belief" in Page...was in his potential....but you have to admit....it never really manifested.

I thought he was going to write a new chapter at first....but then I saw he spent more time believing in his own potential, and less time mining his potential.

So....he remained an "also ran". But he sure made up in longevity...he hung in there for a while.....and to his credit, he was better than he should have been in his waning boxing days. But he really never peaked the way he perhaps could have.

BoxBuzz wrote:A lot of the "belief" in Page...was in his potential....but you have to admit....it never really manifested.

I thought he was going to write a new chapter at first....but then I saw he spent more time believing in his own potential, and less time mining his potential.

So....he remained an "also ran". But he sure made up in longevity...he hung in there for a while.....and to his credit, he was better than he should have been in his waning boxing days. But he really never peaked the way he perhaps could have.

When you're father forces you into boxing, your desire to be the best definitely lessens, this was the case for Greg.He was more into basketball.