BoxRec

Prime vs. Prime there is no doubt that Bowe would have beaten Tyson.

Tyson is in the hall of fame, and Bowe will never make it.

Bowe was, and is, a fighter who was a victim of his own greatness. The things that made him special are the things that left him the brain damaged man that he is. Bowe had the balls to destroy Tyson but he didn't have the skull to absorb the punishment that heavyweight hall of famers had. He simply lost it overnight by being hit repeatedly by lesser fighter than him. He didn't have the durability of lesser fighters who out lasted him on their way to greatness.

Bowe was simply one of the best inside fighters of all time for a man his size. He had talent that can't be taught. The uppercuts and combinations that he landed on Holyfield would have been too much for Tyson to overcome. I consider Riddick Bowe one of the greatest failures of all time for reasons beyond his control. His skills and his talent were decimated by his lack of ability to absorb punishment that lesser men could count on.

Bowe would have blasted out Tyson inside of 8 rounds ten times out of ten. He just didn't have the ability to last very long in this brutal game. Holyfield will go down in history as the better fighter than Bowe simply because Bowe didn't have the born ability to absorb punishment. Yet he destroyed Holyfield with what he had, and that would have been enough to destroy Tyson as well

Bowe was a shooting star, a Super Nova. But he paid an awful price for our entertainment and in the end he will never be given the credit for his inborn abilities as a fighter. He is the gold standard of quality over quantity and history will never forgive him for that.

I think there is plenty of doubt.

Bowe would simply not be able to keep absorbing Tysons shots that he would be unable to avoid with his abysmal defence

To beat Tyson you have to be able to limit his success while landing your own attacks. I don't see Bowe been able to do that

Roco wrote:I think there is plenty of doubt.

Bowe would simply not be able to keep absorbing Tysons shots that he would be unable to avoid with his abysmal defence

To beat Tyson you have to be able to limit his success while landing your own attacks. I don't see Bowe been able to do that

The same works in reverse. To beat Riddick Bowe, you had to have a pretty fast and accurate jab, decent wingspan and the tendency to keep busy over many rounds and not just the first five or six... It also helped if you caught him on a night when he was deconditioned. Trying to smother one of the best inside fighters of all time with hooks, crosses and upper cuts is not the best idea, especially when he has 6 inches in height and about 20 lbs in weight on you, along with a sturdy chin... Tyson may very well have beaten Riddick Bowe. I don't dismiss the possibility.. But some of these arguments supporting Tyson aren't telling the whole story.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Flump wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Whenever Bowe fought someone with a punch he found himself in trouble (Hide, Golota) . . .even Evander who was a fair but not knockout puncher hurt him numerous times and would've stopped him in their rubber match if his gas tank wasn't emptied by Hepatitis.

What's this revisionist stuff about Hide against Bowe I've been seeing on here lately? Hide landed a couple of shots that got Bowe's attention, that's it. As soon as Bowe got near him Hide was flopping around like a sheet in the wind, it was embarrasing to watch.

Almost as outlandish as Holyfield not being a knockout puncher.

Evander himself will tell you he's not a knockout puncher, in terms of one punch power. No-one has ever called him that.

Flump wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:Whenever Bowe fought someone with a punch he found himself in trouble (Hide, Golota) . . .even Evander who was a fair but not knockout puncher hurt him numerous times and would've stopped him in their rubber match if his gas tank wasn't emptied by Hepatitis.

What's this revisionist stuff about Hide against Bowe I've been seeing on here lately? Hide landed a couple of shots that got Bowe's attention, that's it. As soon as Bowe got near him Hide was flopping around like a sheet in the wind, it was embarrasing to watch.
.

Bowe got badly wobbled several times . . do you need me to hold your hand and tell you the exact minute and seconds on the Youtube video?

I know shortly thereafter Bowe beat around a badly fatigued Hide. . but I could care less. My point is about Bowe's punch resistance. The guy was tough, but he didn't have the great chin some make it out to be, especially since Stone steered him away from top punchers like the plague.

I think a lot is being made of Bowe getting hurt, hit, staggered, whatever. Any fighter who's career was worth a damn, has had these things happen to them. Tyson was rocked by Bruno, Bones Smith, Razor Ruddock and KO'd by Douglas. Bowe was never stopped by anybody and likewise only really stunned by big punchers. Doesn't mean that he'd get KO'd by Tyson or vice versa.. I think Styles combined with physical advantages are what sets the stage for the outcome here. Bowe had a shitty defense, but it took strait jabs coming from men with decent wingspans to land them with regularity, ie. Andrew Golata, Tony Tubbs, etc... Tyson killed both of these guys in the ring, true enough, but stylistically that really has nothing to do with why he should be picked to beat Bowe. Riddick was durable. He fought with Heart. He was effect in the early, mid and late rounds. He wasn't Earnie Shavers in the power department, but he could crack. He was a terrific infighter and could even fight on the outside when need be. On top of everything else, his size and physical description fit the mold of the types of guys who either took Tyson the distance or beat him.

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Flump wrote:
What's this revisionist stuff about Hide against Bowe I've been seeing on here lately? Hide landed a couple of shots that got Bowe's attention, that's it. As soon as Bowe got near him Hide was flopping around like a sheet in the wind, it was embarrasing to watch.

Almost as outlandish as Holyfield not being a knockout puncher.

Evander himself will tell you he's not a knockout puncher, in terms of one punch power. No-one has ever called him that.

He had several one punch KO's. He didn't hit as hard as these guys but he floored them both with single shots.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I think a lot is being made of Bowe getting hurt, hit, staggered, whatever. Any fighter who's career was worth a damn, has had these things happen to them. Tyson was rocked by Bruno, Bones Smith, Razor Ruddock and KO'd by Douglas. Bowe was never stopped by anybody and likewise only really stunned by big punchers. Doesn't mean that he'd get KO'd by Tyson or vice versa.. I think Styles combined with physical advantages are what sets the stage for the outcome here. Bowe had a shitty defense, but it took strait jabs coming from men with decent wingspans to land them with regularity, ie. Andrew Golata, Tony Tubbs, etc... Tyson killed both of these guys in the ring, true enough, but stylistically that really has nothing to do with why he should be picked to beat Bowe. Riddick was durable. He fought with Heart. He was effect in the early, mid and late rounds. He wasn't Earnie Shavers in the power department, but he could crack. He was a terrific infighter and could even fight on the outside when need be. On top of everything else, his size and physical description fit the mold of the types of guys who either took Tyson the distance or beat him.

Tyson was nowhere near as badly hurt vs Bruno, Smith, Ruddock as Bowe was vs Holyfield, Hide, and Golota. He clearly had a superior chin. And what is this about straight jabs and long wingspans? Evander was not a huge HW and he regularly landed hooks and overhand rights on Bowe.

I'm not a Tyson fanatic like some but at his best the guy was a great fighter. Bowe doesn't have the discipline (nor the footwork( to keep up a Buster Douglas fight plan on Tyson for 12 rounds. He will slug too often, and Bowe's defense and chin were worse. He loses a slugging match with Mike Tyson and gets knocked out. I don't care how much heart he has. Bowe fought with heart vs Golota too (and their rematch should've been stopped before the DQ; Bowe took a beating of epic proportions that night) and he suffered permanent damage.

dempseyfire wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I think a lot is being made of Bowe getting hurt, hit, staggered, whatever. Any fighter who's career was worth a damn, has had these things happen to them. Tyson was rocked by Bruno, Bones Smith, Razor Ruddock and KO'd by Douglas. Bowe was never stopped by anybody and likewise only really stunned by big punchers. Doesn't mean that he'd get KO'd by Tyson or vice versa.. I think Styles combined with physical advantages are what sets the stage for the outcome here. Bowe had a shitty defense, but it took strait jabs coming from men with decent wingspans to land them with regularity, ie. Andrew Golata, Tony Tubbs, etc... Tyson killed both of these guys in the ring, true enough, but stylistically that really has nothing to do with why he should be picked to beat Bowe. Riddick was durable. He fought with Heart. He was effect in the early, mid and late rounds. He wasn't Earnie Shavers in the power department, but he could crack. He was a terrific infighter and could even fight on the outside when need be. On top of everything else, his size and physical description fit the mold of the types of guys who either took Tyson the distance or beat him.

Tyson was nowhere near as badly hurt vs Bruno, Smith, Ruddock as Bowe was vs Holyfield, Hide, and Golota. He clearly had a superior chin. And what is this about straight jabs and long wingspans? Evander was not a huge HW and he regularly landed hooks and overhand rights on Bowe.

I'm not a Tyson fanatic like some but at his best the guy was a great fighter. Bowe doesn't have the discipline (nor the footwork( to keep up a Buster Douglas fight plan on Tyson for 12 rounds. He will slug too often, and Bowe's defense and chin were worse. He loses a slugging match with Mike Tyson and gets knocked out.

Agreed on Holyfield and Golota, you've got some serious delusions about Hide/Bowe.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I think a lot is being made of Bowe getting hurt, hit, staggered, whatever. Any fighter who's career was worth a damn, has had these things happen to them. Tyson was rocked by Bruno, Bones Smith, Razor Ruddock and KO'd by Douglas. Bowe was never stopped by anybody and likewise only really stunned by big punchers. Doesn't mean that he'd get KO'd by Tyson or vice versa.. I think Styles combined with physical advantages are what sets the stage for the outcome here. Bowe had a shitty defense, but it took strait jabs coming from men with decent wingspans to land them with regularity, ie. Andrew Golata, Tony Tubbs, etc... Tyson killed both of these guys in the ring, true enough, but stylistically that really has nothing to do with why he should be picked to beat Bowe. Riddick was durable. He fought with Heart. He was effect in the early, mid and late rounds. He wasn't Earnie Shavers in the power department, but he could crack. He was a terrific infighter and could even fight on the outside when need be. On top of everything else, his size and physical description fit the mold of the types of guys who either took Tyson the distance or beat him.

Tyson was nowhere near as badly hurt vs Bruno, Smith, Ruddock as Bowe was vs Holyfield, Hide, and Golota. He clearly had a superior chin. And what is this about straight jabs and long wingspans? Evander was not a huge HW and he regularly landed hooks and overhand rights on Bowe.

I'm not a Tyson fanatic like some but at his best the guy was a great fighter. Bowe doesn't have the discipline (nor the footwork( to keep up a Buster Douglas fight plan on Tyson for 12 rounds. He will slug too often, and Bowe's defense and chin were worse. He loses a slugging match with Mike Tyson and gets knocked out.

Agreed on Holyfield and Golota, you've got some serious delusions about Hide/Bowe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg 22:59; and 14:50

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:
Tyson was nowhere near as badly hurt vs Bruno, Smith, Ruddock as Bowe was vs Holyfield, Hide, and Golota. He clearly had a superior chin. And what is this about straight jabs and long wingspans? Evander was not a huge HW and he regularly landed hooks and overhand rights on Bowe.

I'm not a Tyson fanatic like some but at his best the guy was a great fighter. Bowe doesn't have the discipline (nor the footwork( to keep up a Buster Douglas fight plan on Tyson for 12 rounds. He will slug too often, and Bowe's defense and chin were worse. He loses a slugging match with Mike Tyson and gets knocked out.

Agreed on Holyfield and Golota, you've got some serious delusions about Hide/Bowe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg 22:59; and 14:50

Case in point.

dempseyfire wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:I think a lot is being made of Bowe getting hurt, hit, staggered, whatever. Any fighter who's career was worth a damn, has had these things happen to them. Tyson was rocked by Bruno, Bones Smith, Razor Ruddock and KO'd by Douglas. Bowe was never stopped by anybody and likewise only really stunned by big punchers. Doesn't mean that he'd get KO'd by Tyson or vice versa.. I think Styles combined with physical advantages are what sets the stage for the outcome here. Bowe had a shitty defense, but it took strait jabs coming from men with decent wingspans to land them with regularity, ie. Andrew Golata, Tony Tubbs, etc... Tyson killed both of these guys in the ring, true enough, but stylistically that really has nothing to do with why he should be picked to beat Bowe. Riddick was durable. He fought with Heart. He was effect in the early, mid and late rounds. He wasn't Earnie Shavers in the power department, but he could crack. He was a terrific infighter and could even fight on the outside when need be. On top of everything else, his size and physical description fit the mold of the types of guys who either took Tyson the distance or beat him.

Tyson was nowhere near as badly hurt vs Bruno, Smith, Ruddock as Bowe was vs Holyfield, Hide, and Golota. He clearly had a superior chin. And what is this about straight jabs and long wingspans? Evander was not a huge HW and he regularly landed hooks and overhand rights on Bowe.

I'm not a Tyson fanatic like some but at his best the guy was a great fighter. Bowe doesn't have the discipline (nor the footwork( to keep up a Buster Douglas fight plan on Tyson for 12 rounds. He will slug too often, and Bowe's defense and chin were worse. He loses a slugging match with Mike Tyson and gets knocked out. I don't care how much heart he has. Bowe fought with heart vs Golota too (and their rematch should've been stopped before the DQ; Bowe took a beating of epic proportions that night) and he suffered permanent damage.

Really? And who got hurt more by Holyfield, Bowe or Tyson? Yeah Sure, Tyson was past it by that point, but so was Evander. Golata hurting Bowe had just as much to do with him punching Bowe in the nuts repeatedly as it had to do with Bowe's chin, and Riddick's career was winding down anyway, especially after Eddie Futch had left his camp.. Don't blame me for bringing that one up.. I learned it from Tyson fans, " Mike was never the same after Rooney left." And yes, I stand by what I said about men who had lengthy wingspans and good jabs penetrating Bowe's defense. In Evander's second fight, he had Manny Steward in his corner who coached him to "box" Bowe and ultimately it resulted in a win. Golata was tagging Bowe left and right with strait punches from mid range.. Tony Tubbs had a few good moment by incorporating the jab and using movement. None of these men tried to walk down Bowe and smother him with hooks and crosses the way that you propose Tyson would... Mike's chin was tough, but it wasn't granite and Bowe was as good of a cummulative puncher as any Tyson had ever met. No he didn't pack as much power into one shot as Bruno or Smith, but he hit hard with both hands and had the ability to land on the inside more often than either of those guys.. He also wouldn't resort to clinching or fighting timidly just to survive, as more than half of Tyson's opponents did.. And as for not having the discipline to fight for 12 rounds? You've got it the other way around pal. It was TYSON who typically lost focus after the mid way point of a fight.. Now to clarify, I agree with those who say that Tyson wasn't 100% against Douglas and also that he might very well have beaten Riddick Bowe.. But using the Golata and Hide fights to illustrate this is nonsense given that Tyson wouldn't fight Bowe the way those guys did, and one of them met Riddick when he was clearly a declining fighter.....This is a pick em' fight and very likely even money.. My edge goes to Bowe, but I say that with no real conviction.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:
Tyson was nowhere near as badly hurt vs Bruno, Smith, Ruddock as Bowe was vs Holyfield, Hide, and Golota. He clearly had a superior chin. And what is this about straight jabs and long wingspans? Evander was not a huge HW and he regularly landed hooks and overhand rights on Bowe.

I'm not a Tyson fanatic like some but at his best the guy was a great fighter. Bowe doesn't have the discipline (nor the footwork( to keep up a Buster Douglas fight plan on Tyson for 12 rounds. He will slug too often, and Bowe's defense and chin were worse. He loses a slugging match with Mike Tyson and gets knocked out.

Agreed on Holyfield and Golota, you've got some serious delusions about Hide/Bowe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikUKdw3jeg 22:59; and 14:50

Case in point.[/quote]

Yes my case in point . . thank you. Bowe's legs clearly buckle and he grabs on. Tyson in those 3 examples mentioned was never that hurt.

dempseyfire wrote:
Yes my case in point . . thank you. Bowe's legs clearly buckle and he grabs on. Tyson in those 3 examples mentioned was never that hurt.

You're delusional.

dempseyfire wrote:
Yes my case in point . . thank you. Bowe's legs clearly buckle and he grabs on. Tyson in those 3 examples mentioned was never that hurt.

I didn't see Bowe's legs buckle in either of those instances. He clinches to avoid any more incoming punishment, but I didn't see his legs wobble. Larry Merchant's yelling "He's hurt, Bowe is hurt" might've been what made it feel that way to you, but I didn't see any indication of that other than the clinching.

gilgamesh wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:
Yes my case in point . . thank you. Bowe's legs clearly buckle and he grabs on. Tyson in those 3 examples mentioned was never that hurt.

I didn't see Bowe's legs buckle in either of those instances. He clinches to avoid any more incoming punishment, but I didn't see his legs wobble. Larry Merchant's yelling "He's hurt, Bowe is hurt" might've been what made it feel that way to you, but I didn't see any indication of that other than the clinching.

Agreed. And it didn't look any more damaging than when Bruno caught Tyson with a left hook in round two of their first meeting, or when smith tagged Tyson in the last round of their fight. Neither Tyson nor Bowe were in any real trouble from those shots, but both were mildly staggered.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:
Yes my case in point . . thank you. Bowe's legs clearly buckle and he grabs on. Tyson in those 3 examples mentioned was never that hurt.

I didn't see Bowe's legs buckle in either of those instances. He clinches to avoid any more incoming punishment, but I didn't see his legs wobble. Larry Merchant's yelling "He's hurt, Bowe is hurt" might've been what made it feel that way to you, but I didn't see any indication of that other than the clinching.

Agreed. And it didn't look any more damaging than when Bruno caught Tyson with a left hook in round two of their first meeting, or when smith tagged Tyson in the last round of their fight. Neither Tyson nor Bowe were in any real trouble from those shots, but both were mildly staggered.

Tyson's chin was better than Bowe's. Tyson was the harder and faster puncher too. Out of the two I would expect Bowe to be in more trouble from a Tyson punch than vice versa.

He was definitely faster. The biggest shot in this fight would probably be Bowe's uppercut, and it would cause a lot of damage.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He was definitely faster. The biggest shot in this fight would probably be Bowe's uppercut, and it would cause a lot of damage.

Your not honestly suggesting Bowe hit harder than Tyson?

Controversial wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He was definitely faster. The biggest shot in this fight would probably be Bowe's uppercut, and it would cause a lot of damage.

Your not honestly suggesting Bowe hit harder than Tyson?

I wouldn't call it either way, they were both big punchers. Same with their chins.

In fairness I think Tyson probably packed more power into a single shot than Bowe did. But I think cumulatively and with both hands, Riddick had the ability to do more damage over a duration of time. I don't think Razor Ruddock or Tony Tucker could have gone 12 rounds with Bowe in the kind of fight(s) that Evander Holyfield did, taking blow after blow from the inside from Riddick.

I'd say Tyson was a better finisher. Bowe's single shots were vicious.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd say Tyson was a better finisher. Bowe's single shots were vicious.

Probably true. Both had vicious shots. Looking at the way Tyson dispatched Tony Tubbs with one shot and the left hook he dropped the truth with or how he had Berbick bobbing around on the canvas like a chicken with its head cut off, were all memories that come to mind.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:In fairness I think Tyson probably packed more power into a single shot than Bowe did. But I think cumulatively and with both hands, Riddick had the ability to do more damage over a duration of time. I don't think Razor Ruddock or Tony Tucker could have gone 12 rounds with Bowe in the kind of fight(s) that Evander Holyfield did, taking blow after blow from the inside from Riddick.

Yes, you're right. Ruddock and Tucker couldn't have gone 12 rounds because Bowe would have never fought them unless they held a title.