The Best White Heavyweight of All Time

[dempseyfire]

Burns TKO 8 Price

Wells KO 3 McBride

Kilrain UD Righetti

Heeney UD LeDoux

Goddard SD Cobb

LaStarza UD Hart

Palzar TKO 6 Wepner

McCarty UD Risko

Chagaev UD Coatzer

Corbett UD Valuev

[HomicideHenry]

Burns- 5, Price 1

Wells- 6, McBride 0

Wepner- 3, Pazer 3

Heeney- 5, LeDoux 1

Cobb- 3, Goddard 3

McCarty- 5, Risko 1

LaStarza- 4, Hart 2

Chagaev- 6, Coetzer 0

Corbett- 6, Valuev 0

Kilrain- 6, Righetti 0

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Seems because of a double-tie, we must have:

COBB vs. WEPNER and GODDARD vs. PAZER

*************************************************************************

Kilrain, Corbett, Chagaev, LaStarza, McCarty, Heeney, Wells and Burns move on into the tournament; and the newest batch of match-ups will be selected at random order momentarily (Cobb/Wepner and Goddard/Pazer unfortunately will be added to the next round; that is what happens in the event of a tie in the votes)

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[HomicideHenry]

Second Round of The Best White HW of All Time Tournament


Randall Tex Cobb vs. Chuck Wepner

Joe Goddard vs. Al Pazer

Tomasz Adamek vs. Joe Bugner

Henry Cooper vs. Georges Carpentier

Gunboat Smith vs. Ernie Schaaf

Bruce Woodcock vs. Bob Cleroux

Johnny DuPlooy vs. Francesco Damiani

Tom McNeeley vs. Duane Bobick

Lucas Browne vs. Buddy Knox

Carmine Vingo vs. LaMar Clark

John L. Gardner vs. Tommy Morrison


Voting ends at midnight, 8:10:00.....

[gp.]

Jim Coffey belongs in the 1905-15 or 1916-26 eras.

He clearly isn't the only one.

[The Great John L]

Randall Tex Cobb Dec Chuck Wepner
Al Pazer KO3 Joe Goddard
Joe Bugner Dec Tomasz Adamek
Georges Carpentier TKO7 Henry Cooper
Gunboat Smith Dec Ernie Schaaf
Bob Cleroux Dec Bruce Woodcock
Johnny DuPlooy KO4 Francesco Damiani
Duane Bobick KO5 Tom McNeeley
Lucas Browne KO3 Buddy Knox
Carmine Vingo TK1 LaMar Clark
Tommy Morrison KO1 John L. Gardner

[drunkenpiper36]

Randall Tex Cobb Dec Chuck Wepner
Al Pazer KO3 Joe Goddard
Joe Bugner Dec Tomasz Adamek
Georges Carpentier TKO7 Henry Cooper
Gunboat Smith Dec Ernie Schaaf
Bob Cleroux Dec Bruce Woodcock
Johnny DuPlooy KO4 Francesco Damiani
Duane Bobick KO5 Tom McNeeley
Lucas Browne KO3 Buddy Knox
Carmine Vingo TK1 LaMar Clark
Tommy Morrison KO1 John L. Gardner

Not sure if I understand the format here, but for the record, Francesco Damiani BEAT Johnny Duplooy in 1989.

[dempseyfire]

Cobb UD Wepner

Goddard KO 6 Palzar

Adamek UD Bugner (Adamek's high work-rate saves him here)

Cooper UD Carpentier

Smith UD Schaeff

Cleroux TKO 6 Woodcock

Damiani TKO 8 DuPlooy

Bobick KO 5 McNeeley

Knox UD Browne

Vingo KO 6 Clark

Morrison TKO 4 Gardner

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Cobb TKO9 Wepner
Goddard UD Palzar
Bugner UD Adamek
Cooper KO7 Carpentier
Schaaf UD Smith
Cleroux KO8 Woodcock- that would be a war
Damiani KO5 DuPlooy
Bobick KO2 McNeeley
Browne KO8 Knox
Vingo KO6 Clark
Morrison KO4 Gardner

[HomicideHenry]

So far the tallies go...

Cobb 3, Wepner 0

Goddard 2, Pazer 1

Bugner 2, Adamek 1

Cooper 2, Carpentier 1

Smith 2, Schaaf 1

Cleroux 2, Woodcock 1

Damiani 2, DuPlooy 1

Bobick 3, McNeeley 0

Browne 2, Knox 1

Vingo 3, Clark 0

Morrison 3, Gardner 0

**********************************************************

My two cents on the opponent war....

Cobb vs. Wepner- (More than likely a DRAW)

Pazer vs. Goddard- Decision for Pazer

Bugner vs. Adamek- Split Decision for Bugner

Cooper vs. Carpentier- Cooper KO 8th

Smith vs. Schaaf- Schaaf decision win

Cleroux vs. Woodcock- (helluva war; Woodcock wins)

Damiani vs. DuPlooy- Damiani KO 5th

Bobick vs. McNeeley- Bobick TKO (between 4th and 7th rounds)

Browne vs. Knox- Knox via Decision

Vingo vs. Clark- Vingo KO 3rd

Morrison vs. Gardner- (another war; could go either way; Morrison TKO 5th)

*************************************************************

Tallies now are.....

4-0 Morrison over Gardner

4-0 Vingo over Clark

2-2 EVEN Browne/Knox

4-0 Bobick over McNeeley

3-1 Damiani over DuPlooy

2-2 EVEN Woodcock/Cleroux

2-2 EVEN Schaaf/Smith

3-1 Bugner over Adamek

3-1 Cooper over Carpentier

2-2 EVEN Pazer/Goddard

3-1 Cobb over Wepner

************************************************************

00:40:00 till voting ends..... keep em coming peoples!

[SamWise72]

Du Plooy's an interesting one. In his major fights he seemed to either win big and very early, or get exactly the same medicine given to him. Corrie Sanders and Pierre Coetzer both won their big domestic battles with him but there are wins in there against Mike Weaver as well as Pritchard and Broad.

I lived in South Africa for a year and the very good M-Net channel used to show clips of his previous fights and he seemed like a guy with a serious arsenal but a very wild approach and not much of anything resembling a gameplan. Pity that he was not better-schooled/more patient because he might have at least matched Sanders and Gerrie Coetzee's achievements. I guess he must be ultimately marked down as a super-dangerous brawler/puncher.

Du Plooy was great value, but I find it hard to push someone as the best white heavyweight of their era when he got starched in his prime by two other white heavyweights.

[scartissue]

So far the tallies go...

Cobb 3, Wepner 0

Goddard 2, Pazer 1

Bugner 2, Adamek 1

Cooper 2, Carpentier 1

Smith 2, Schaaf 1

Cleroux 2, Woodcock 1

Damiani 2, DuPlooy 1

Bobick 3, McNeeley 0

Browne 2, Knox 1

Vingo 3, Clark 0

Morrison 3, Gardner 0

**********************************************************

My two cents on the opponent war....

Cobb vs. Wepner- (More than likely a DRAW)

Pazer vs. Goddard- Decision for Pazer

Bugner vs. Adamek- Split Decision for Bugner

Cooper vs. Carpentier- Cooper KO 8th

Smith vs. Schaaf- Schaaf decision win

Cleroux vs. Woodcock- (helluva war; Woodcock wins)

Damiani vs. DuPlooy- Damiani KO 5th

Bobick vs. McNeeley- Bobick TKO (between 4th and 7th rounds)

Browne vs. Knox- Knox via Decision

Vingo vs. Clark- Vingo KO 3rd

Morrison vs. Gardner- (another war; could go either way; Morrison TKO 5th)

*************************************************************

Tallies now are.....

4-0 Morrison over Gardner

4-0 Vingo over Clark

2-2 EVEN Browne/Knox

4-0 Bobick over McNeeley

3-1 Damiani over DuPlooy

2-2 EVEN Woodcock/Cleroux

2-2 EVEN Schaaf/Smith

3-1 Bugner over Adamek

3-1 Cooper over Carpentier

2-2 EVEN Pazer/Goddard

3-1 Cobb over Wepner

************************************************************

00:40:00 till voting ends..... keep em coming peoples!

I'm way past the deadline, but if it's a help in breaking some deadlocks...

Cobb stops Wepner late

Goddard by decision over Palzer

Bugner by decision over Adamek

I'll go with the consensus here for Cooper but by decision. I saw this one and thought this is a close one.

Schaaf over Gunboat Smith by comfortable decision

Cleroux by decision over Woodcock

Damiani stops DuPlooy around the 4th or 5th

Vingo takes out Clark around the 5th

Bobick needs to warm up a bit but stops McNeely late.

Buddy Knox over Browne by decision

Morrison stops JLG mid rounds in a war.

[Bodyshot3]

Bugner v Adamek is the stand-out fight in this sequence for me.

TA is remorseless, crazily brave and in his prime used to produce an incredible work-rate. Bugner is bigger, has a great chin, more technically polished but did not appreciate being harried, bullied and forced to fight at a break-neck pace.

It is a great little fight between good, if flawed, fighters.

I see Joe winning, possibly by having to weather a deeply difficult early storm, and also needing to open-up and use some of the power he (frustratingly) rarely used to stop Adamek in his tracks.

Morrison v Gardner is the crowd-pleaser in there; these two just go for each other from the first bell but Tommy is the bigger, faster and stronger man. It's all over by the third round with a shit-load of shots given and taken!!

[HomicideHenry]

4-1 Cobb over Wepner

3-2 Goddard over Pazer

4-1 Bugner over Adamek

4-1 Cooper over Carpentier

3-2 Schaaf over Gunboat

3-2 Cleroux over Woodcock

4-1 Damiani over DuPlooy

5-0 Vingo over Clark

5-0 Bobick over McNeeley

5-0 Morrison over Gardner

*************************************************************************

Morrison, Bobick, Vingo, Damiani, Cleroux, Schaaf, Cobb, Goddard, Cooper, Bugner, advance....

*************************************************************************

Third Round of the Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:

Primo Carnera vs. Peter McNeeley

James J. Braddock vs. Jack Boddell

Fred Fulton vs. Lee Savold

Don Cockell vs. Ron Stander

Ben Foord vs. Corrie Sanders

Karl Mildenberger vs. Gus Ruhlin

Kallie Knoetze vs. Frans Botha

Robert Helenius vs. Art Laskey

Billy Miske vs. Bob Fitzsimmons

Jack Sharkey vs. Oleg Maskaev

Albert Sosnowski vs. Tom Sharkey

Peter Maher vs. Carl Morris

[HomicideHenry]

Third Round of the Best White Heavyweight of All Time Tournament:


Primo Carnera vs. Peter McNeeley

James J. Braddock vs. Jack Boddell

Fred Fulton vs. Lee Savold

Don Cockell vs. Ron Stander

Ben Foord vs. Corrie Sanders

Karl Mildenberger vs. Gus Ruhlin

Kallie Knoetze vs. Frans Botha

Robert Helenius vs. Art Laskey

Billy Miske vs. Bob Fitzsimmons

Jack Sharkey vs. Oleg Maskaev

Albert Sosnowski vs. Tom Sharkey

Peter Maher vs. Carl Morris


^^^My selections in bold

This round is open for a full 24 hours so get your votes in people!

[The Great John L]

Primo Carnera KO Peter McNeeley
James J. Braddock KO Jack Boddell
Fred Fulton TKO Lee Savold
Don Cockell Dec Ron Stander
Corrie Sanders KO Ben Foord
Gus Ruhlin Dec Karl Mildenberger
Frans Botha KO Kallie Knoetze
Art Laskey Dec Robert Helenius
Bob Fitzsimmons KO Billy Miske
Jack Sharkey KO Oleg Maskaev
Tom Sharkey KO Albert Sosnowski
Carl Morris KO Peter Maher vs. Carl Morris

[scartissue]

Primo Carnera vs. Peter McNeeley

James J. Braddock vs. Jack Boddell

Fred Fulton vs. Lee Savold
Don Cockell vs. Ron Stander

Ben Foord vs. Corrie Sanders

Karl Mildenberger vs. Gus Ruhlin

Kallie Knoetze vs. Frans Botha

Robert Helenius vs. Art Laskey
Billy Miske vs. Bob Fitzsimmons
Jack Sharkey vs. Oleg Maskaev

Albert Sosnowski vs. Tom Sharkey
Peter Maher vs. Carl Morris

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I may have missed it, but how many rounds are these fights? I've just assumed they were 10 for this round.

Carnera KO1 McNeeley(seriously, there are probably hundreds of better fighters)
Braddock UD Boddell
Fulton KO8 Savold
Cockell KO8 Stander
Sanders KO2 Foord
Mildenberger UD Ruhlin
Botha UD Knoetzee
Lasky UD Helenius
Miske SD Fitzsimmons
Sharkey UD Maskaev
Sharkey KO3 Sosnowski
Maher UD Morris

[HomicideHenry]

Tallies thus far are....

Carnera 4-0 McNeeley

Braddock 4-0 Boddell

2-2 EVEN Fulton vs. Savold

3-1 Cockell over Stander

2-2 EVEN Mildenberger vs. Ruhlin

3-1 Botha over Knoetzee

3-1 Sanders over Foord

4-0 Laskey over Helenius

3-1 Fitzsimmons over Miske

4-0 Sharkey over Maskaev

4-0 Sharkey over Sosnowski

3-1 Maher over Morris

************************************************************************

Voting does not end for another 3.5 hours

************************************************************************

And lol @ Saad, "seriously, there are probably hundreds of better fighters" @ Carnera/McNeeley

I kept some 'cans' essentially as fillers, and overall data builders--- at the tournaments conclusion we will see a list of who was defeated in opening matches, and who had most wins, and break the groupings down from (example) 5 wins and downward. I do admit some are very poor, like Peter McNeeley, but then again both McNeeley's were highly popular regional fighters in New England and across the East Coast. Sort of hard to not acknowledge them, when both were thrusted into big matches--- even if they may not of been deserving of them. I will say this, though, Tom McNeeley losing in an opening bout in this tournament rather surprised me because he was a pretty good journeyman and fringe contender, but hey thats the way life goes. Besides---- I think with certain fighters like Carnera, who is often depicted as a 'manufactured' fighter, I think we'll see just how 'weak' the Ambling Alp is over time in the tournament.

And, all rounds, essentially are twelve or fifteen rounders--- whichever people are comfortable with in judging these matches; its a personal preference---- but all these people are in their 'prime' years, so its the best possible version of each guy facing the best possible version, etc.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think you should set exact rounds, I'd take Fitzsimmons over Miske if it was 15.

[Ambling Alp II]

Carnera KO1 McNeeley
Braddock Dec Boddell
Fulton KO7 Savold
Cockell Dec Stander
Sanders KO 8 Foord
Mildenberger Dec Ruhlin
Botha Dec Knoetzee
Laskey Dec Helenius
Fitzsimmons KO10 Miske
Jack Sharkey Dec Maskaev
Tom Sharkey Ko 13 Sosnowski
Maher KO 6 Morris

[dempseyfire]

Carnera KO 2 McNeeley

Braddock UD Bodell

Fulton UD Savold

Cockell TKO 10 Stander (on cuts)

Foord KO 9 Sanders (Ben's endurance and awkward style win him the day here, although I concede this is my least confident pick; can definitely see Sanders blasting him out early as Foord did not have a great defense)

Ruhlin TKO 3 Mildenburger

Botha SD Knoetze

Lasky TKO 8 Helenius

Fitzimmons MD Miske

Sharkey UD Maskaev

Sharkey KO 11 Sosnowski

Maher TKO 10 Morris

[HomicideHenry]

6-0 Carnera over McNeeley

6-0 Braddock over Boddell

4-2 Fulton over Savold

5-1 Cockell over Stander

3-3 EVEN Ruhlin vs. Mildenberger

5-1 Botha over Knoetzee

4-2 Sanders over Foord

6-0 Lasky over Helenius

6-0 Sharkey over Maskaev

6-0 Sharkey over Sosnowski

5-1 Maher over Morris

************************************************************************

Maher, Tom Sharkey, Jack Sharkey, Lasky, Sanders, Botha, Cockell, Fulton, Braddock, Carnera move on....

Seems we are at an impass with Ruhlin and Mildenberger; they will be pitted against new foes in the fourth round of the tournament....

*************************************************************************

[HomicideHenry]

Fourth Round of The Best White Heavyweight Tournament of All Time

John L. Sullivan vs. Charley Norkus

Gus Ruhlin vs. Bill Brennan

Jim Coffey vs. Karl Mildenberger

Mike DeJohn vs. Lou Savarese

Crawford Grimsley vs. Gerry Cooney

Kingfish Levinsky vs. Harry 'Kid' Matthews

Walter Nuesel vs. Pat Valentino

Tommy Loughran vs. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

Joe Choynski vs. Tommy Gibbons

Maxie Rosenbloom vs. Jimmy Maloney

[HomicideHenry]

John L. Sullivan vs. Charley Norkus

Gus Ruhlin vs. Bill Brennan

Jim Coffey vs. Karl Mildenberger

Mike DeJohn vs. Lou Savarese

Crawford Grimsley vs. Gerry Cooney

Kingfish Levinsky vs. Harry 'Kid' Matthews

Walter Nuesel vs. Pat Valentino

Tommy Loughran vs. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

Joe Choynski vs. Tommy Gibbons

Maxie Rosenbloom vs. Jimmy Maloney


^^^My picks in bold.... voting ends in 24 hours.... have at it gentlemen!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Sullivan KO5
Brennan KO6
Savarese KO8
Cooney KO4
Matthews UD
Nuesel UD
Loughran SD
Gibbons UD
Rosenbloom UD