BoxRec

mickey1975 wrote:

G0mez wrote:Groves was offered a £1m+ gurantee plus bolt ons from PPV sales.

He flatly turned it down.

When Froch took £150k to fight Jermain Taylor who was on three times that amount as challenger, in f*cking America - to make his own name.

Now the IBF ruling has came in, the purse splits for someone outside the Top 3 is a paltry 15% , so will earn far less than the offer if he refuses and it goes to sealed envelopes.

Froch hardly had options at that time though, did he? The Taylor fight didn't even get live television coverage in the UK, WBC belt or not.

The UK is not the only place in the world, it got plenty of coverage elsewhere, as did the rest of the Super Six. Froch took a punt on the super six, and it paid off in spades for him.

jameswilson wrote:

Final round wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:George was very happy at the IBF's decision today, and patted himself on the back for his patience. You can be sure he knows of the 85/15% split. I imagine he would gladly take 15% of whatever, and remain a free agent.

Pick up a 7 digit sum in his first defence later in the year

Eddie Hearn must be gnashing his teeth at this. No Stadium, less money and possibly one less champion.

You're acting like Groves is a dead cert to win.

The way I see it Groves is the one who comes out of the 90 day thing the worse. Eddie Hearn now has the big bargaining tool of 'ok if you don't want that offer then we go to purse bids and you get 15%.' And if Groves chooses not to go for purse bids then Froch skips away to Vegas for a big payday and Groves goes where?

That's how I see it and I'll make it clear now if the fight happens and Groves wins I'll be happy because Groves has a long career ahead of him and if Froch wins I'll be happy because it means we will see him in more fights later in the year.

That's one (completely wrong) way of reading it. Do you honestly think GG didn't know that it'd be fifteen percent? This way he can push for a better offer knowing it'll go to purse bids if no agreement is forthcoming. The purse bid could force Hearn to bid more than he wanted to beat other interested parties, making GG's 15% worth more than the original 25% (with options) he rejected. equally the 15% could be worth less but GG will still be option free.

Or Froch could vacate his only legitimate belt.

You could well be right.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:You could well be right.

We'll have to see. I hope the fight takes place, bored of GG's whining now although I do think he was very hard done by. I have zero interest in the Chavez fight (will the fatfuck even make SMW?) and have a hard time believing that it's a bigger moneymaker for Froch. Froch would at least get to fight in Vegas though, so there's that.

Personally I think GG has played a blinder here. No options and a rematch or Froch vacates, very clever/fortunate.

People think the Chavez talk is a ruse - but it isn't.

Floyd drew 2.2 million when pitched against Canelo. It was a record breaking event.

Yet Chavez is such a massive TV draw, that he pulled in 1.5m for lowly Brian Vera. That's 50% more than Floyd did against Robert Guerrero. His pulling power is gargantuan.

The Super Six's Ken Hershman, is now the head of HBO - and is a massive fan of Froch. He personally wants that fight for his channel.

Froch vs Chavez, with the full marketing power of HBO behind it, it could draw the biggest US television audience of 2014.

G0mez wrote:People think the Chavez talk is a ruse - but it isn't.

Floyd drew 2.2 million when pitched against Canelo. It was a record breaking event.

Yet Chavez is such a massive TV draw, that he pulled in 1.5m for lowly Brian Vera. That's 50% more than Floyd did against Robert Guerrero. His pulling power is gargantuan.

The Super Six's Ken Hershman, is now the head of HBO - and is a massive fan of Froch. He personally wants that fight for his channel.

Froch vs Chavez, with the full marketing power of HBO behind it, it could draw the biggest US television audience of 2014.

Froch would still be the B side to that, with JCC jr taking the lion's share. I don't think it'd get much over the Vera fight either.

Yes, but those are numbers that no way is Froch v Groves going to match.

Outside the UK, it's just not a big fight, and no fight in the UK has ever done anything approaching those kind of numbers.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes, but those are numbers that no way is Froch v Groves going to match.

Outside the UK, it's just not a big fight, and no fight in the UK has ever done anything approaching those kind of numbers.

I'm not suggesting it would outsell those numbers, what I'm saying is that I don't think that Froch would necessarily make more money fighting Chavez, as he'll be the b side. If Chavez can draw 1.5m fighting Vera, he's not going to willingly give up more money to fight Froch when the numbers more than likely won't do any better.

The Froch - GG first fight seemed to do okay over here from an interest perspective as so many casuals were talking about it (I don't know the PPv numbers though). Given a big push by Sky and holding it at a stadium could make it a better fight financially for Froch.

G0mez wrote:People think the Chavez talk is a ruse - but it isn't.

Floyd drew 2.2 million when pitched against Canelo. It was a record breaking event.

Yet Chavez is such a massive TV draw, that he pulled in 1.5m for lowly Brian Vera. That's 50% more than Floyd did against Robert Guerrero. His pulling power is gargantuan.

The Super Six's Ken Hershman, is now the head of HBO - and is a massive fan of Froch. He personally wants that fight for his channel.

Froch vs Chavez, with the full marketing power of HBO behind it, it could draw the biggest US television audience of 2014.

Was Chavez v Vera PPV?

G0mez wrote:Groves was offered a £1m+ gurantee plus bolt ons from PPV sales.

He flatly turned it down.

When Froch took £150k to fight Jermain Taylor who was on three times that amount as challenger, in f*cking America - to make his own name.

Now the IBF ruling has came in, the purse splits for someone outside the Top 3 is a paltry 15% , so will earn far less than the offer if he refuses and it goes to sealed envelopes.

He took the money to fight Taylor because that was the best offer, if he was offered £160k for an easier fight at home he would have taken it, but he was a nobody with little personality so he had to go on the road.

Groves doesn't want to finish up signed to Eddie Hearn and I don't blame him for that.

jameswilson wrote:

Final round wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:George was very happy at the IBF's decision today, and patted himself on the back for his patience. You can be sure he knows of the 85/15% split. I imagine he would gladly take 15% of whatever, and remain a free agent.

Pick up a 7 digit sum in his first defence later in the year

Eddie Hearn must be gnashing his teeth at this. No Stadium, less money and possibly one less champion.

You're acting like Groves is a dead cert to win.

The way I see it Groves is the one who comes out of the 90 day thing the worse. Eddie Hearn now has the big bargaining tool of 'ok if you don't want that offer then we go to purse bids and you get 15%.' And if Groves chooses not to go for purse bids then Froch skips away to Vegas for a big payday and Groves goes where?

That's how I see it and I'll make it clear now if the fight happens and Groves wins I'll be happy because Groves has a long career ahead of him and if Froch wins I'll be happy because it means we will see him in more fights later in the year.

Chavez isn't happening, he's fighting Vera in March and there's no way he'll get as lucky with the judges this time and without the belt, why would he fight Froch when he could fight Bika or Stieglitz and take a title like that? Groves is in a great situation, either he gets the rematch with no options, where the money will still be good because there will be no shortage of bidders, or he gets to fight for the vacant title. This isn't really about money for him, it's about being a free agent and having no contractual obligations to Eddie Hearn or any other promoter, David Haye spent his entire career doing the same thing.

G0mez wrote:People think the Chavez talk is a ruse - but it isn't.

Floyd drew 2.2 million when pitched against Canelo. It was a record breaking event.

Yet Chavez is such a massive TV draw, that he pulled in 1.5m for lowly Brian Vera. That's 50% more than Floyd did against Robert Guerrero. His pulling power is gargantuan.

The Super Six's Ken Hershman, is now the head of HBO - and is a massive fan of Froch. He personally wants that fight for his channel.

Froch vs Chavez, with the full marketing power of HBO behind it, it could draw the biggest US television audience of 2014.

What a load of bullshit. Those figures are bollocks when you remember that the Mayweather fights were somewhere between $65-$95 to watch on PPV and Chavez wasn't on PPV. Any fight on NBC will have a bigger audience, because it goes out to more homes in the US than HBO. Martinez-Chavez Jnr did 475,000 buys on PPV, he lost that fight and arguably lost to Vera as well, his stock isn't as high as it was at that time, if the fight was on PPV it would probably do something like 400-450,000 buys.

Expe,
Answer me this would you.
Name me the Promoter who is going to put in a gargantuan purse bid and not want options on Groves win lose or draw ?

Parson Cross wrote:Expe,
Answer me this would you.
Name me the Promoter who is going to put in a gargantuan purse bid and not want options on Groves win lose or draw ?

Purse bids mean there won't be any options because of the IBF rules, the purse bid is split in the amounts specified to the two fighters, once they've been paid, the rest of the money made on the show goes to the promoter. There's a profit to be made, plenty of promoters will be interested, Hearn will obviously bid, Warren will probably stick a bid in, Sauerland seem to have ideas of opening up into the UK market and Golden Boy have already stated similar ambitions.

G0mez wrote:Groves was offered a £1m+ gurantee plus bolt ons from PPV sales.

He flatly turned it down.

When Froch took £150k to fight Jermain Taylor who was on three times that amount as challenger, in f*cking America - to make his own name.

Now the IBF ruling has came in, the purse splits for someone outside the Top 3 is a paltry 15% , so will earn far less than the offer if he refuses and it goes to sealed envelopes.

You're missing the point though pal... If Groves wins the rematch as mandatory he will be a free agent and in a position to maximise his earning potential, calling his own shots without having to give a sizeable percentage of his future earnings to a particular promoter.

In the short term, Groves' purse might not be so great as mandatory in comparison to what he would have received had he have signed up to Matchroom. But in the long-term, he wont be paying anything out to Matchroom after the rematch. I think Groves has acted very shrewdly.

expe wrote:

G0mez wrote:Groves was offered a £1m+ gurantee plus bolt ons from PPV sales.

He flatly turned it down.

When Froch took £150k to fight Jermain Taylor who was on three times that amount as challenger, in f*cking America - to make his own name.

Now the IBF ruling has came in, the purse splits for someone outside the Top 3 is a paltry 15% , so will earn far less than the offer if he refuses and it goes to sealed envelopes.

He took the money to fight Taylor because that was the best offer, if he was offered £160k for an easier fight at home he would have taken it, but he was a nobody with little personality so he had to go on the road.

Groves doesn't want to finish up signed to Eddie Hearn and I don't blame him for that.

Very true, I think if he had a big promoter, like Calzaghe had Wazza, then he would of taken easier fights at home, how many hard away fights has he had under Hearn...

TopGun wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/25883588

I thought he would be one to fight for glory and for the belts. To turn down a 7 figure deal has left me a sour taste, I have defended George countless times but feel he has let me down as a fan. This is a massive payday for someone at this weight with no title.

He hasn't exactly turned it down though has he, he is holding out trying to get as much money as he can for it and why not? He knows there is a high demand for the fight so there is every chance the money could be raised.

mickey1975 wrote:

G0mez wrote:People think the Chavez talk is a ruse - but it isn't.

Floyd drew 2.2 million when pitched against Canelo. It was a record breaking event.

Yet Chavez is such a massive TV draw, that he pulled in 1.5m for lowly Brian Vera. That's 50% more than Floyd did against Robert Guerrero. His pulling power is gargantuan.

The Super Six's Ken Hershman, is now the head of HBO - and is a massive fan of Froch. He personally wants that fight for his channel.

Froch vs Chavez, with the full marketing power of HBO behind it, it could draw the biggest US television audience of 2014.

Was Chavez v Vera PPV?

Just looked myself. It wasn't. And that's a "massive tv draw" for a country as big as America? I think Kid Galahad v Jazza did better....

mickey1975 wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

G0mez wrote:People think the Chavez talk is a ruse - but it isn't.

Floyd drew 2.2 million when pitched against Canelo. It was a record breaking event.

Yet Chavez is such a massive TV draw, that he pulled in 1.5m for lowly Brian Vera. That's 50% more than Floyd did against Robert Guerrero. His pulling power is gargantuan.

The Super Six's Ken Hershman, is now the head of HBO - and is a massive fan of Froch. He personally wants that fight for his channel.

Froch vs Chavez, with the full marketing power of HBO behind it, it could draw the biggest US television audience of 2014.

Was Chavez v Vera PPV?

Just looked myself. It wasn't. And that's a "massive tv draw" for a country as big as America? I think Kid Galahad v Jazza did better....

It was posted by Gomez, always going to be bollocks.

expe wrote: It was posted by Gomez, always going to be bollocks.

Says the unemployed person with 3,000 posts in 3 months.

George gets an offer that is bigger than all his previous purses added together and multiplied by 2..... and he rejects it.... Yet he says its not about the money ? and then we have all the usual apologists leaping on the grenade to defend his honour.

Word is he thought he would be installed as the #1 but now he has made his 15% bed and needs to lay in it.

If his brain cells were dynamite he wouldn't have enough to rustle Paddy's pork pie hat. Kicking Sky to the kerb during negotiations is not the best approach to develop a long term relationship either.

There is trying to get yourself the best deal, and then there is being an idiot. Going out there and publicly slating Eddie and his offer is also an unprofessional approach too.

Gomez, people keep mentioning stipulations, any idea what they were? Can't really see why being tied to the biggest promoter in the country with the biggest channel behind him would be terrible for one or two fights myself.

Also, where does George go if he loses after earning less money and having burned his bridges with Matchroom and SKY?

G0mez wrote:

expe wrote: It was posted by Gomez, always going to be bollocks.

Says the unemployed person with 3,000 posts in 3 months.

George gets an offer that is bigger than all his previous purses added together and multiplied by 2..... and he rejects it.... Yet he says its not about the money ? and then we have all the usual apologists leaping on the grenade to defend his honour.

Word is he thought he would be installed as the #1 but now he has made his 15% bed and needs to lay in it.

If his brain cells were dynamite he wouldn't have enough to rustle Paddy's pork pie hat. Kicking Sky to the kerb during negotiations is not the best approach to develop a long term relationship either.

There is trying to get yourself the best deal, and then there is being a idiot. Going out there and publicly slating Eddie and his offer is also an unprofessional approach too.

Seems your unable to read as well, 2,600 in 15 months, not 3,000 in 3 months, so more bollocks there and I'm unemployed because I'm at college, I don't need a job right now, I have other things to concentrate on first.

Maybe he doesn't want to work with Sky or 'Saint' Eddie, ever thought of that? It isn't about money for him, he doesn't want to be tied to a promoter afterwards, so going to purse bids is the best option for him and they will have read the IBF rules that clearly state he wouldn't be #1 unless he beats someone else top 5 as part of the appeal. Ever thought that there may be other promoters interested as well, I doubt Hearn is the only promoter he's spoken to and if he wins, and I'm sure he thinks he will, 15% doesn't matter when he will be the biggest draw in the country able to negotiate with anyone.

expe wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Expe,
Answer me this would you.
Name me the Promoter who is going to put in a gargantuan purse bid and not want options on Groves win lose or draw ?

Purse bids mean there won't be any options because of the IBF rules, the purse bid is split in the amounts specified to the two fighters, once they've been paid, the rest of the money made on the show goes to the promoter. There's a profit to be made, plenty of promoters will be interested, Hearn will obviously bid, Warren will probably stick a bid in, Sauerland seem to have ideas of opening up into the UK market and Golden Boy have already stated similar ambitions.

Aren't purse bids for mandatory fights though. Groves isn't #1 - he was a voluntary defence, so do the same rules apply. I suppose this fight is mandated in a sense, in that it was called for by the IBF - but it's a rematch of a 'non-mandatory' fight, to which purse bid rules would not have applied. I'm wondering if it is quite as watertight as people are suggesting.

I doubt if it is anyway, that Hearn will do everything he can to avoid purse bids if that's the case, won't want to risk losing control of the fight.

Also, if Groves turns down the 15% = then surely that's the end of it, and Froch is then free to defend any ranked IBF fighter, or even take a non-title fight if he wished to?

SNG wrote:Gomez, people keep mentioning stipulations, any idea what they were? Can't really see why being tied to the biggest promoter in the country with the biggest channel behind him would be terrible for one or two fights myself.

Also, where does George go if he loses after earning less money and having burned his bridges with Matchroom and SKY?

My thoughts precisely, seems like he's burned a lot of bridges, pretty early in his career. Booth, Matchroom, Sky....hes not leaving himself enough options if this all goes wrong.

What if Carl just smashes him into submission, he's going to have to do some serious career rebuilding, and he may well find that he becomes a part of the 'who need him club.' Can't see the other title holders falling over themselves to fight him.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

expe wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:Expe,
Answer me this would you.
Name me the Promoter who is going to put in a gargantuan purse bid and not want options on Groves win lose or draw ?

Purse bids mean there won't be any options because of the IBF rules, the purse bid is split in the amounts specified to the two fighters, once they've been paid, the rest of the money made on the show goes to the promoter. There's a profit to be made, plenty of promoters will be interested, Hearn will obviously bid, Warren will probably stick a bid in, Sauerland seem to have ideas of opening up into the UK market and Golden Boy have already stated similar ambitions.

Aren't purse bids for mandatory fights though. Groves isn't #1 - he was a voluntary defence, so do the same rules apply. I suppose this fight is mandated in a sense, in that it was called for by the IBF - but it's a rematch of a 'non-mandatory' fight, to which purse bid rules would not have applied. I'm wondering if it is quite as watertight as people are suggesting.

I doubt if it is anyway, that Hearn will do everything he can to avoid purse bids if that's the case, won't want to risk losing control of the fight.

Also, if Groves turns down the 15% = then surely that's the end of it, and Froch is then free to defend any ranked IBF fighter, or even take a non-title fight if he wished to?

Groves was mandatory for the first fight. If Groves turns down the 15% then that will be that, but 15% only applies to purse bids, not any negotiations before that.