BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Agreed, especially considering he was slow and plodding after 5 minutes. I mean if you want another southpaw from then, Byrd's hands were significantly faster. Quarry had faster hands, and I've never seen him on a list.

Agreed.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:...Having some of the fastest heavyweight hands of all time...

Oh my. Here we go again with the "fastest hands". Where do people come up with this stuff?

I have no idea. He had fast hands for a fat guy. He was pretty much a homeless mans Tommy Morrison.

" A homeless man's Tommy Morrison". What a crock of sh-t.. Sanders beating Wlad was by far and above better than anything that Morrison ever did. And Sanders certainly didn't have a problem outpointing Ross Purity who had Morrison on the deck twice. And fat man? He wasn't always out of shape. His hands were pretty goddamn fast too.. What a bunch of crap

Corrie always gets a huge amount of forum time (and not just here) precisely because he showed flashes of devastating brilliance as well as many, many faults.

It is a clumsy, clunking summary of a complex and up-and-down career; but his combination of explosive punching power, fast hands and the size to cope with a Klitchsko is always undermined by the strong suggestion that he lacked the physical and mental dedication to consistently beat the best.

He's the ultimate 'what if' modern heavyweight (but with that big win to his name and keeping him relevant) and that is precisely why he is so intriguing.

For my money - Sanders could and should have been far better. But he was never pushed by his handlers at the righ time who should have taken him on the road, recognised that his talent and asked more of him and far earlier as well.

The Wlad fight was pretty much the last throw of the dice for Corrie, he was old even back then and widely regarded as a fringe contender. But that result inevitably leads to the question as to what he could have done if he'd been in shape and more professionally managed/directed three or four years earlier when he was devouring fringe contenders for fun.

A very talented figher; worthy of all the speculation but ultimately his 'golden years' were in the rear view mirror by the time he shook up the world and dropped Wlad. It was just a great 'swansong' performance and his real impact on the scene should have come much earlier.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

The Great John L wrote:
Oh my. Here we go again with the "fastest hands". Where do people come up with this stuff?

I have no idea. He had fast hands for a fat guy. He was pretty much a homeless mans Tommy Morrison.

" A homeless man's Tommy Morrison". What a crock of sh-t.. Sanders beating Wlad was by far and above better than anything that Morrison ever did. And Sanders certainly didn't have a problem outpointing Ross Purity who had Morrison on the deck twice. And fat man? He wasn't always out of shape. His hands were pretty goddamn fast too.. What a bunch of crap

Old Foreman was still > Wlad. Morrison would have kicked Sanders ass 8 fights out of 10. If Sanders was ever in shape, I haven't seen the fight. You said he had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history, and I'm typing a bunch of crap? LOL, what he had was good timing on his left hand, more than anything else, for the 2 or 3 rounds he had the wind to remain dangerous.

Old Foreman was still > Wlad. Morrison would have kicked Sanders ass 8 fights out of 10. If Sanders was ever in shape, I haven't seen the fight. You said he had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history, and I'm typing a bunch of crap? LOL, what he had was good timing on his left hand, more than anything else, for the 2 or 3 rounds he had the wind to remain dangerous.

All crap...

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

Old Foreman was still > Wlad. Morrison would have kicked Sanders ass 8 fights out of 10. If Sanders was ever in shape, I haven't seen the fight. You said he had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history, and I'm typing a bunch of crap? LOL, what he had was good timing on his left hand, more than anything else, for the 2 or 3 rounds he had the wind to remain dangerous.

All crap...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

Old Foreman was still > Wlad. Morrison would have kicked Sanders ass 8 fights out of 10. If Sanders was ever in shape, I haven't seen the fight. You said he had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history, and I'm typing a bunch of crap? LOL, what he had was good timing on his left hand, more than anything else, for the 2 or 3 rounds he had the wind to remain dangerous.

All crap...

" Morrison would beat Sanders 8-10" The guy who barely survived Ross Purity who Sanders beat... LOLOLOLOLOLOL..

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:
All crap...

" Morrison would beat Sanders 8-10" The guy who barely survived Ross Purity who Sanders beat... LOLOLOLOLOLOL..

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Old Foreman was still > Wlad. Morrison would have kicked Sanders ass 8 fights out of 10. If Sanders was ever in shape, I haven't seen the fight. You said he had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history, and I'm typing a bunch of crap? LOL, what he had was good timing on his left hand, more than anything else, for the 2 or 3 rounds he had the wind to remain dangerous.

Despite the fact that I think Old George was one of the most carefully managed fighters in history, and is also one of the most over-rated fighters, I have to admit that despite his obvious deficiencies, he would have been a very difficult fight for Wlad. While I could see Wlad out-boxing the glacier slow Foreman, he would have had a terrible time keeping George tied up, and George had a great chin. After 5 or 6 rounds of jab and clutch with a few tepid power shots tossed towards George I think George would have been able to rough up the fragile Wlad and stop him. While Wlad holding on and taking a decision from George is possible, I see a mid-late round stoppage by George as more likely. I think Vitali would have been a different story. At least for the old version of George.

Bodyshot3 wrote:Corrie always gets a huge amount of forum time (and not just here) precisely because he showed flashes of devastating brilliance as well as many, many faults.

It is a clumsy, clunking summary of a complex and up-and-down career; but his combination of explosive punching power, fast hands and the size to cope with a Klitchsko is always undermined by the strong suggestion that he lacked the physical and mental dedication to consistently beat the best.

He's the ultimate 'what if' modern heavyweight (but with that big win to his name and keeping him relevant) and that is precisely why he is so intriguing.

For my money - Sanders could and should have been far better. But he was never pushed by his handlers at the righ time who should have taken him on the road, recognised that his talent and asked more of him and far earlier as well.

The Wlad fight was pretty much the last throw of the dice for Corrie, he was old even back then and widely regarded as a fringe contender. But that result inevitably leads to the question as to what he could have done if he'd been in shape and more professionally managed/directed three or four years earlier when he was devouring fringe contenders for fun.

A very talented figher; worthy of all the speculation but ultimately his 'golden years' were in the rear view mirror by the time he shook up the world and dropped Wlad. It was just a great 'swansong' performance and his real impact on the scene should have come much earlier.

Solid post

Despite the fact that I think Old George was one of the most carefully managed fighters in history, and is also one of the most over-rated fighters, I have to admit that despite his obvious deficiencies, he would have been a very difficult fight for Wlad. While I could see Wlad out-boxing the glacier slow Foreman, he would have had a terrible time keeping George tied up, and George had a great chin. After 5 or 6 rounds of jab and clutch with a few tepid power shots tossed towards George I think George would have been able to rough up the fragile Wlad and stop him. While Wlad holding on and taking a decision from George is possible, I see a mid-late round stoppage by George as more likely. I think Vitali would have been a different story. At least for the old version of George.

I don't know who would have won between a 1993 Foreman or a 2003 Wladimir. But Sanders beating Wlad in 2003 was a more valuable victory at the time than was Morrison's win over Foreman in 93'. Wlad was the second best heavyweight in the world behind Lewis and in his prime. Sanders was deemed as having no chance, yet he creamed Klitschko far more emphatically than Morrison beat Forman who hadn't been fighting much lately and looked like he was finished after Alex Stewart. Of course hindsight showed that Foreman would win the title a year later. But hindsight also showed that Wlad would have a long reign after Sanders too. Both Morrison and Sanders have records that are padded with journeyman, club fighters, fringe types and past prime veterans. Both men have bad losses to lesser fighters. But I think the tie breaker here is Sanders' win over Wlad along with a better performance against Ross Purity. Who would win between the two? Not something I'd bet money on, but my inclination is to favor Corrie. His power, handspeed, south paw style and little bit extra size would be problematic. Both men could knock out the other. It would be an exciting contest.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Old Foreman was still > Wlad. Morrison would have kicked Sanders ass 8 fights out of 10. If Sanders was ever in shape, I haven't seen the fight. You said he had some of the fastest hands in heavyweight history, and I'm typing a bunch of crap? LOL, what he had was good timing on his left hand, more than anything else, for the 2 or 3 rounds he had the wind to remain dangerous.

All crap...

" Morrison would beat Sanders 8-10" The guy who barely survived Ross Purity who Sanders beat... LOLOLOLOLOLOL..[/quote]

Have you actually watched Sanders-Purrity? Purrity busted Corrie's eardrum and landed a good deal of hard shots as Corrie would just cover up with his earmuffs on the ropes. Sanders won practically every round but it was a hard fought victory.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

Despite the fact that I think Old George was one of the most carefully managed fighters in history, and is also one of the most over-rated fighters, I have to admit that despite his obvious deficiencies, he would have been a very difficult fight for Wlad. While I could see Wlad out-boxing the glacier slow Foreman, he would have had a terrible time keeping George tied up, and George had a great chin. After 5 or 6 rounds of jab and clutch with a few tepid power shots tossed towards George I think George would have been able to rough up the fragile Wlad and stop him. While Wlad holding on and taking a decision from George is possible, I see a mid-late round stoppage by George as more likely. I think Vitali would have been a different story. At least for the old version of George.

Both Morrison and Sanders have records that are padded with journeyman, club fighters, fringe types and past prime veterans. .

Pretty much sums up Wlad's "reign" as well . . .

dempseyfire wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

Despite the fact that I think Old George was one of the most carefully managed fighters in history, and is also one of the most over-rated fighters, I have to admit that despite his obvious deficiencies, he would have been a very difficult fight for Wlad. While I could see Wlad out-boxing the glacier slow Foreman, he would have had a terrible time keeping George tied up, and George had a great chin. After 5 or 6 rounds of jab and clutch with a few tepid power shots tossed towards George I think George would have been able to rough up the fragile Wlad and stop him. While Wlad holding on and taking a decision from George is possible, I see a mid-late round stoppage by George as more likely. I think Vitali would have been a different story. At least for the old version of George.

Both Morrison and Sanders have records that are padded with journeyman, club fighters, fringe types and past prime veterans. .

Pretty much sums up Wlad's "reign" as well . . .

Perhaps but at least he's fought and defeated most of the best available fighters of his era. Can't fault him for that.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:
Both Morrison and Sanders have records that are padded with journeyman, club fighters, fringe types and past prime veterans. .

Pretty much sums up Wlad's "reign" as well . . .

Perhaps but at least he's fought and defeated most of the best available fighters of his era. Can't fault him for that.[/quote]

He certainly didn't defeat Ross Purrity. Evidently that's a deal breaker in his era.

He certainly didn't defeat Ross Purrity. Evidently that's a deal breaker in his era.

Well Sanders certainly did

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

He certainly didn't defeat Ross Purrity. Evidently that's a deal breaker in his era.

Well Sanders certainly did

Wlad didn't.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

He certainly didn't defeat Ross Purrity. Evidently that's a deal breaker in his era.

Well Sanders certainly did

Wlad didn't.

And neither did Morrison.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

drunkenpiper36 wrote:
Well Sanders certainly did

Wlad didn't.

And neither did Morrison.

Morrison didn't lose to him, Wlad did.

Morrison didn't lose to him, Wlad did.

Morrison was in the peak of his prime.. Wlad was a work in progress. Morrison fought Purity when he was 8-8. Wlad fought him when he was a more established professional.. Wlad pushed Purity's stool in for most of the fight before tiring late.. Morrison struggled with Purity for the bulk of the evening. Wlad would have wailed on Purity had they rematch at the height of his powers. Morrison probably would have gotten KTFO had he fought the same version or the boss that Wlad did.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

Morrison didn't lose to him, Wlad did.

Morrison was in the peak of his prime.. Wlad was a work in progress. Morrison fought Purity when he was 8-8. Wlad fought him when he was a more established professional.. Wlad pushed Purity's stool in for most of the fight before tiring late.. Morrison struggled with Purity for the bulk of the evening. Wlad would have wailed on Purity had they rematch at the height of his powers. Morrison probably would have gotten KTFO had he fought the same version or the boss that Wlad did.

You sure love to use "prime" to suit your agenda's. You've already stated that Wlad's prime was getting destroyed by your boy, now Tommy's peak effort was a draw with Purrity. You're quite mad.

I think if Corrie's management were prepared to go the WBO route he could have laid out Herbie Hide. Akinwande prob would have decisioned him though. I would say chinny fighters such as Morrison and Moorer would have been blown out. Moorer tends to be frighteningly overrated by Yankees these days on this forum. 5 knocks downs in Holyfield 2 ...please! All the fringe contenders would have been vulnerable. After all wasn't Botha repeatedly smashed in the amateurs? I'm sure it was no coincidence Botha always gave Corrie a wide berth in the pros.

You sure love to use "prime" to suit your agenda's. You've already stated that Wlad's prime was getting destroyed by your boy, now Tommy's peak effort was a draw with Purrity. You're quite mad.

Well then enlighten me. Morrison was between 24-25 years old for his fight with Purity and his loss to Bentt. Both coming within a 13 month period of picking up what you consider to be his best win over old George. So when was his prime? Was it when he was a 28-0 hyped movie star who got spanked by Ray Mercer? Was it the one who got demolished by Lewis in 96'? or was it the HIV infected one who tried to launch a pretty poor comeback effort years later? As for Wlad he was a tad unpolished prior to picking up Manny but he was definitely prime. He was a 27 year old Olympic gold medalist with 40 pro fights, several title defenses and a physical advantage over about 99% of the division. SANDERS is the one who was the disadvantaged one at age 37 and spending more time on the golf course than in a boxing ring. And at least he defeated a version of Klitschko who actually got in the ring and fought rather than doing everything he could to avoid getting hit. Morrison was a young guy in his prime who either got spanked or struggled against lesser men... Sanders was an older guy who beat a top heavy in his prime.... Case closed....

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

You sure love to use "prime" to suit your agenda's. You've already stated that Wlad's prime was getting destroyed by your boy, now Tommy's peak effort was a draw with Purrity. You're quite mad.

Well then enlighten me. Morrison was between 24-25 years old for his fight with Purity and his loss to Bentt. Both coming within a 13 month period of picking up what you consider to be his best win over old George. So when was his prime? Was it when he was a 28-0 hyped movie star who got spanked by Ray Mercer? Was it the one who got demolished by Lewis in 96'? or was it the HIV infected one who tried to launch a pretty poor comeback effort years later? As for Wlad he was a tad unpolished prior to picking up Manny but he was definitely prime. He was a 27 year old Olympic gold medalist with 40 pro fights, several title defenses and a physical advantage over about 99% of the division. SANDERS is the one who was the disadvantaged one at age 37 and spending more time on the golf course than in a boxing ring. And at least he defeated a version of Klitschko who actually got in the ring and fought rather than doing everything he could to avoid getting hit. Morrison was a young guy in his prime who either got spanked or struggled against lesser men... Sanders was an older guy who beat a top heavy in his prime.... Case closed....