BoxRec

Syntax Error wrote:

AngryGoon38 wrote:David Tua

Was he great?

I know it's subjective & we all have opinions that are valid & should be respected, but I've never considered, nor have I heard Tua referred to as great.

for some strange reason many americans really rate Tua

stevedoc wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

AngryGoon38 wrote:David Tua

Was he great?

I know it's subjective & we all have opinions that are valid & should be respected, but I've never considered, nor have I heard Tua referred to as great.

for some strange reason many americans really rate Tua

Tua isn't even close to great.

LMAO @ Golota and Tua.

Hamed and Gatti while we're at it. They at least managed to pick up some belts along the way.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It really isn't, especially if you go back to earlier era's. While there might not be a million even money fights with two prime guys, there is certainly tens of thousands. Even in more modern era's you can spit them out rapidly off of the top of your head. Floyd/Chico, Floyd/Castillo, DLH/Mosley, DLH/Tito, Hopkins/Tito, etc..

Corrales was not a great fighter.

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:It really isn't, especially if you go back to earlier era's. While there might not be a million even money fights with two prime guys, there is certainly tens of thousands. Even in more modern era's you can spit them out rapidly off of the top of your head. Floyd/Chico, Floyd/Castillo, DLH/Mosley, DLH/Tito, Hopkins/Tito, etc..

Corrales was not a great fighter.

I know he wasn't, but at the time he was supposed to beat Floyd.

Il Duce wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Charles 'Sonny' Liston

Beat a lot of good fighters, but never beat a Great One. As a matter of fact, he never faced a Great One either.

Who did your pick as No 1 Heavyweight Jack Dempsey beat who was great?

You're not serious are you.........

Is that your best answer? Terminally ill Billy Miske? Controversial win vs not so great Sharkey? Tommy Gibbons weighing 175lb? Come on numb nuts, why is Jack Dempsey the best?

Il Duce wrote:Cassius Clay

Never beat a Great Fighter.

You are getting soft Douche. Cassius is not great.

Jaywheel wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Cassius Clay

Never beat a Great Fighter.

You are getting soft Douche. Cassius is not great.

Il Duce wrote:

Jaywheel wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Cassius Clay

Never beat a Great Fighter.

You are getting soft Douche. Cassius is not great.

I do believe you are correct Mr. Wheel-Jay.

Ill Duce on Charlie Zelenoff
"I knocked that boy on his arse, and nearly knocked the coward out. And I'm a bum."

Sorted

The great Eusebio Pedroza needed that great fighter in his resume. Still, he was a great featherweight champ, one of the best p4p fighters of all time in my book. Did the greats Salvador Sanchez and Azumah Nelson DUCKED HIM? Maybe, they did.

There was a WBC/WBA feud at the time that fight would have been huge. I'm sure they both would have taken the fight if they could. And if I'm not mistaken, Nelson's title run pretty much coincided with Pedroza's ending.

Syntax Error wrote:

AngryGoon38 wrote:David Tua

Was he great?

I know it's subjective & we all have opinions that are valid & should be respected, but I've never considered, nor have I heard Tua referred to as great.

He WAS Great, No Doubt at all. But Even a Great Fighter can be defeated. Lewis and Ibeabuchi were both Great and they Both had the Right style to Stymie a Dangerously Great but limited boxing ability style such as Tua's,but nevertheless,i still strongly feel Tua was Definately Great without a Doubt whatsoever. Tua looked like an absolute Tank in his KO's over Moorer and Ruiz. Very Much Early Prime TysonLike. Here's just a short but meaningfull list of Very Good and Great Boxers i feel Tua would've beaten. Basically an A and B Level list. Basically a legitimate list where my money would be on Tua to win. And winning against at least most of these guys should make one considered Great,i would think anyway.

-Gerrie Cooney
-Michael Dokes
-Mike Weaver
-Larry Donald
-Riddick Bowe
-Evander Holyfield
-Ray Mercer
-Michael Grant
-Corrie Sanders
-Michael Spinks
-John Tate
-Gerrie Coetzee
-Tommy Morrison
-Andrew Golota
-Earnie Shavers
-Jerry Quarry
-Ken Norton
-Tim Witherspoon
-Floyd Patterson

BarryWashington wrote:Tua would most likely fail to beat over half of the names mentioned.

Tua would do well to beat 5 or 6 of those names, in my humble opinion.

Prince Naseem Hamed would be one I'd fit into this category.

BarryWashington wrote:Tua would most likely fail to beat over half of the names mentioned.

Definitely, he's overrated and even most of those that overrate him wouldn't call him great. Tua was rahman's bitch.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:It was a HUGE shock... But more so because few thought much of foreman prior to his smashing Frazier. He was viewed as slow, clumsy, and limited. Frazier had already looked lackluster in his last two fights following his meeting with Ali and developing more and more health issues. One of the guys in his camp was interviewed and said that Frazier acted more like a cruise line director at training camp for the foreman fight than he did a world champ preparing to defend his title.

Frazier losing to Foreman was a huge shock to the general public, but not to me. I was very scared of the fight and Foreman's power.

I knew Frazier was slipping after the FOTC. His heart was no longer fully in boxing. Heck, he danced around a bit with Stander instead of finishing him. The old Joe would have put him away.

I would say that on that night in Jamaica, Foreman in reality was actually facing a very good heavyweight, but no longer a truly great one.

dempseyfire wrote:

Controversial wrote:Ricardo Lopez. Tyson. Holmes. Marciano

Because Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore wern't great fighters?

I'd rank Norton as a great fighter for Holmes.

I'd concur with Lopez and Tyson, if you're not counting the past-it Holmes.

Kenny Norton was a very good fighter, but I just don't see him as truly great.

BarryWashington wrote:Samuel Serrano

...was nothing close to being great.

AngryGoon38 wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

AngryGoon38 wrote:David Tua

Was he great?

I know it's subjective & we all have opinions that are valid & should be respected, but I've never considered, nor have I heard Tua referred to as great.

He WAS Great, No Doubt at all. But Even a Great Fighter can be defeated. Lewis and Ibeabuchi were both Great and they Both had the Right style to Stymie a Dangerously Great but limited boxing ability style such as Tua's,but nevertheless,i still strongly feel Tua was Definately Great without a Doubt whatsoever. Tua looked like an absolute Tank in his KO's over Moorer and Ruiz. Very Much Early Prime TysonLike. Here's just a short but meaningfull list of Very Good and Great Boxers i feel Tua would've beaten. Basically an A and B Level list. Basically a legitimate list where my money would be on Tua to win. And winning against at least most of these guys should make one considered Great,i would think anyway.

-Gerrie Cooney
-Michael Dokes
-Mike Weaver
-Larry Donald
-Riddick Bowe
-Evander Holyfield
-Ray Mercer
-Michael Grant
-Corrie Sanders
-Michael Spinks
-John Tate
-Gerrie Coetzee
-Tommy Morrison
-Andrew Golota
-Earnie Shavers
-Jerry Quarry
-Ken Norton
-Tim Witherspoon
-Floyd Patterson

Your definition of great is much wider than most people's here. You're listing about the same number of 90's heavies add great add most of us would find from the 20's on. I might say that Dempsey, Charles, Marciano, Louis, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Holy and Lewis were the only great fighters across that era. Certainly not John Tate or Larry Donald, or God forbid Michael Grant. What makes a fighter "great" for you? For be, he needs to be a supreme talent, and beat the very best (even if the best aren't great). Frazier's win over Ali makes him great ;if he lost the FOTC, he's merely very good.

Not so much nominations, more general enquiries but who are the 'signature' wins of:

Pascual Perez
Miguel Canto

I'd say Gonzalez & Oguma for Canto.

I've always found Perez' ledger to be overrated, but I'm not exactly an expert on Flyweights from that time frame. Yaoita & Espinosa are the two best from my limited knowledge.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd say Gonzalez & Oguma for Canto.

I've always found Perez' ledger to be overrated, but I'm not exactly an expert on Flyweights from that time frame. Yaoita & Espinosa are the two best from my limited knowledge.

Thanks. I asked mainly because they're both IBHoF'ers who never fought another inductee (not a great barmoter admittedly as there's not many tiny guys in there).

RadioElRadar wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd say Gonzalez & Oguma for Canto.

I've always found Perez' ledger to be overrated, but I'm not exactly an expert on Flyweights from that time frame. Yaoita & Espinosa are the two best from my limited knowledge.

Thanks. I asked mainly because they're both IBHoF'ers who never fought another inductee (not a great barmoter admittedly as there's not many tiny guys in there).

I wouldn't be surprised if Gonzalez made it in the next few years, though there are a lot of modern 'heavyweights', as in star power, coming up. Betulio is deserving.

Controversial wrote:Ricardo Lopez. Tyson. Holmes. Marciano

Spinks was a great. Maybe not a great heavyweight at the time, but he's an Olympian and HOFmer. I thought Holmes beat Spinks also. Just so happened, Tyson made easier work of Spinks but Spinks was never beaten like that. As much as I think Tyson gets overrated AND underrated sometimes, you can't take Spinks away from him.

IKSRTFO wrote:

Controversial wrote:Ricardo Lopez. Tyson. Holmes. Marciano

Spinks was a great. Maybe not a great heavyweight at the time, but he's an Olympian and HOFmer. I thought Holmes beat Spinks also. Just so happened, Tyson made easier work of Spinks but Spinks was never beaten like that. As much as I think Tyson gets overrated AND underrated sometimes, you can't take Spinks away from him.

Obviously anything at Heavyweight wouldn't be his prime, but I think he counts as well.