BoxRec

I thought Froch would walk through Groves in the first fight, but having seen how much punishment he took & how many times he was badly shaken, I think Groves will get the stoppage in the rematch.

Groves KO1 is my confident prediction.

Boxerbeetle123 wrote:I thought Froch would walk through Groves in the first fight,

So did Howard Foster

To hard to call this one!

On one hand George groves schooled froch for most the fight and hurt him bad, and I can see groves getting stronger, fitter, more determined and above all else more confident. There is a chance he may blow froch out in the first half of the fight this time.

On the other hand did froch take groves too lightly and this time he will be like a beast. During the fight froch was coming on strong and looked like he was taking the fight by the scruff of the neck, after all a fight is 12 rounds and it's no good groves doing well for the first 6 or so then starting to tire.

IMO this is a 50/50 fight but if I had to put money on it I'd go with groves mid to late stoppage

Can't wait for it I don't mind who wins and I imagine allot of people will think I'm mad but I think degale takes them both

Froch, around the same time as last time out.

The amount of punishment Froch took in the first fight has been massively overstated, as has Groves' dominance.

Groves did better than most expected, and this coloured people's perception, ESPECIALLY the commentators, who seemed to ignore most of what Froch was throwing.

Groves was beginning to slow from all the body shots Carl was landing, and looked distressed the first time he was under sustained assault.

I expect Froch to avoid the 1st round knockdown, start slow as he always does, but then grind Groves down from the 6th on, and stop him around round 9.

Froch took the best Groves could offer, and aside from that 1st round, never came close to being stopped, or being off his feet, people act like he was being knocked from pillar to post throughout the fight, which simply isn't the case.

Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

Did all that and still thought it was a 6-2 fight for Groves, one in which he outlanded Froch and generally landed the better punches. There were also several times aside from the knockdown when Froch was getting hammered with hard punches and looking very uncomfortable to me. I think you're wrong in reducing perceptions of the first fight to commentary.

That said, I think Froch wins again. I don't think Groves has the engine or durability to keep Froch off over the distance and I doubt he stops him.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Froch, around the same time as last time out.

The amount of punishment Froch took in the first fight has been massively overstated, as has Groves' dominance.

Groves did better than most expected, and this coloured people's perception, ESPECIALLY the commentators, who seemed to ignore most of what Froch was throwing.

Groves was beginning to slow from all the body shots Carl was landing, and looked distressed the first time he was under sustained assault.

I expect Froch to avoid the 1st round knockdown, start slow as he always does, but then grind Groves down from the 6th on, and stop him around round 9.

Froch took the best Groves could offer, and aside from that 1st round, never came close to being stopped, or being off his feet, people act like he was being knocked from pillar to post throughout the fight, which simply isn't the case.

Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

I watched the fight for the first time about an hour after it happened and wondered if I'd watched the right fight. Watt was an embarrassment.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Froch, around the same time as last time out.

The amount of punishment Froch took in the first fight has been massively overstated, as has Groves' dominance.

Groves did better than most expected, and this coloured people's perception, ESPECIALLY the commentators, who seemed to ignore most of what Froch was throwing.

Groves was beginning to slow from all the body shots Carl was landing, and looked distressed the first time he was under sustained assault.

I expect Froch to avoid the 1st round knockdown, start slow as he always does, but then grind Groves down from the 6th on, and stop him around round 9.

Froch took the best Groves could offer, and aside from that 1st round, never came close to being stopped, or being off his feet, people act like he was being knocked from pillar to post throughout the fight, which simply isn't the case.

Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

I watched the fight for the first time about an hour after it happened and wondered if I'd watched the right fight. Watt was an embarrassment.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Froch, around the same time as last time out.

The amount of punishment Froch took in the first fight has been massively overstated, as has Groves' dominance.

Groves did better than most expected, and this coloured people's perception, ESPECIALLY the commentators, who seemed to ignore most of what Froch was throwing.

Groves was beginning to slow from all the body shots Carl was landing, and looked distressed the first time he was under sustained assault.

I expect Froch to avoid the 1st round knockdown, start slow as he always does, but then grind Groves down from the 6th on, and stop him around round 9.

Froch took the best Groves could offer, and aside from that 1st round, never came close to being stopped, or being off his feet, people act like he was being knocked from pillar to post throughout the fight, which simply isn't the case.

Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

Now you mention it, I thought that at the time.

Groves was ahead on points, the stoppage was premature and there is a need for a rematch. But that doesn't stop that the commentators, after the knockdown, spunked themselves every time Groves did something and then barely acknowledged what Froch was doing at all. Groves was winning, but not all the rounds were as one-sided as the first round. Which you wouldn't realise by listening to commentary.

Though I haven't rewatched the fight since, so this might be beer induced memory wrongness.

ILikeBeer wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Froch, around the same time as last time out.

The amount of punishment Froch took in the first fight has been massively overstated, as has Groves' dominance.

Groves did better than most expected, and this coloured people's perception, ESPECIALLY the commentators, who seemed to ignore most of what Froch was throwing.

Groves was beginning to slow from all the body shots Carl was landing, and looked distressed the first time he was under sustained assault.

I expect Froch to avoid the 1st round knockdown, start slow as he always does, but then grind Groves down from the 6th on, and stop him around round 9.

Froch took the best Groves could offer, and aside from that 1st round, never came close to being stopped, or being off his feet, people act like he was being knocked from pillar to post throughout the fight, which simply isn't the case.

Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

Now you mention it, I thought that at the time.

Groves was ahead on points, the stoppage was premature and there is a need for a rematch. But that doesn't stop that the commentators, after the knockdown, spunked themselves every time Groves did something and then barely acknowledged what Froch was doing at all. Groves was winning, but not all the rounds were as one-sided as the first round. Which you wouldn't realise by listening to commentary.

Though I haven't rewatched the fight since, so this might be beer induced memory wrongness.

Memory rightness.

crusader wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

Did all that and still thought it was a 6-2 fight for Groves, one in which he outlanded Froch and generally landed the better punches. There were also several times aside from the knockdown when Froch was getting hammered with hard punches and looking very uncomfortable to me. I think you're wrong in reducing perceptions of the first fight to commentary.

That said, I think Froch wins again. I don't think Groves has the engine or durability to keep Froch off over the distance and I doubt he stops him.

I watched it again and could easy see why the judges gave Froch a share of the rounds

The fact that Groves was doing a lot better than expected including the knockdown seemed to sway the commentary - I'm glad someone brought this up

I think it may be slightly more tentative than the first time but still a good fight (like Kessler 2 compared to Kessler 1). Froch may try and use his jab more early on. I'll be interested to see whether Groves puts in on Carl early like the first fight and tries to stop him which could work but also could work against him and tire him out for the later rounds. Or will he box more on the back foot, countering Froch with his hand speed. This could also work but on the other hand could give Froch the chance for smother him and impose himself, let's not forget Grove's success in the first fight came from hunting Froch down so fighting on the back foot like he did V Degale might not work as well as everyone thinks.

At the moment I'm going Froch to stop him late but Froch points, Groves points or even Groves stoppage wouldn't surprise me.

danamba7 wrote:I think it may be slightly more tentative than the first time but still a good fight (like Kessler 2 compared to Kessler 1). Froch may try and use his jab more early on. I'll be interested to see whether Groves puts in on Carl early like the first fight and tries to stop him which could work but also could work against him and tire him out for the later rounds. Or will he box more on the back foot, countering Froch with his hand speed. This could also work but on the other hand could give Froch the chance for smother him and impose himself, let's not forget Grove's success in the first fight came from hunting Froch down so fighting on the back foot like he did V Degale might not work as well as everyone thinks.

At the moment I'm going Froch to stop him late but Froch points, Groves points or even Groves stoppage wouldn't surprise me.

Think that just about covers it

I think Froch needs to use the uppercut in this a lot more. It's his bread and butter but I very rarely remember him actually using it.

It's a hard punch to land when thrown from the waist.

palooka wrote:

danamba7 wrote:I think it may be slightly more tentative than the first time but still a good fight (like Kessler 2 compared to Kessler 1). Froch may try and use his jab more early on. I'll be interested to see whether Groves puts in on Carl early like the first fight and tries to stop him which could work but also could work against him and tire him out for the later rounds. Or will he box more on the back foot, countering Froch with his hand speed. This could also work but on the other hand could give Froch the chance for smother him and impose himself, let's not forget Grove's success in the first fight came from hunting Froch down so fighting on the back foot like he did V Degale might not work as well as everyone thinks.

At the moment I'm going Froch to stop him late but Froch points, Groves points or even Groves stoppage wouldn't surprise me.

Think that just about covers it

Draw?

palooka wrote:It's a hard punch to land when thrown from the waist.

He had some good knockouts with that shot though earlier on in his career though. I remember him knocking out Magee pretty violently.

black panther wrote:

palooka wrote:

danamba7 wrote:I think it may be slightly more tentative than the first time but still a good fight (like Kessler 2 compared to Kessler 1). Froch may try and use his jab more early on. I'll be interested to see whether Groves puts in on Carl early like the first fight and tries to stop him which could work but also could work against him and tire him out for the later rounds. Or will he box more on the back foot, countering Froch with his hand speed. This could also work but on the other hand could give Froch the chance for smother him and impose himself, let's not forget Grove's success in the first fight came from hunting Froch down so fighting on the back foot like he did V Degale might not work as well as everyone thinks.

At the moment I'm going Froch to stop him late but Froch points, Groves points or even Groves stoppage wouldn't surprise me.

Think that just about covers it

Draw?

That's a full house (unless fan man turns up).

palooka wrote:

black panther wrote:

palooka wrote:
Think that just about covers it

Draw?

That's a full house (unless fan man turns up).

Didnt Adam Smith say his favourite boxing moment was fan man?! Says it all really

Froch in 5. This fight goes a similar way to the Bute fight. Very measured aggression from Froch who jumps out of the blocks and lands combinations early to throw Groves off his gameplan and to an early ending.

DeGale then rematches Groves

columbo wrote:

palooka wrote:It's a hard punch to land when thrown from the waist.

He had some good knockouts with that shot though earlier on in his career though. I remember him knocking out Magee pretty violently.

He's too slow to land it on Groves though and he doesn't really throw it that well, doesn't turn the glove over a lot of the time, just rams it upwards, partially turning from the waist. A fighter like Groves will see that coming, lean back out of the way, counter and spin away. If Froch tries to use the uppercut, while it is potentially a dangerous weapon for him if it lands, Groves could use that to his advantage by leaning in slightly, then pulling his head back as Froch throws, creating the opening for a counter.

palooka wrote:

danamba7 wrote:I think it may be slightly more tentative than the first time but still a good fight (like Kessler 2 compared to Kessler 1). Froch may try and use his jab more early on. I'll be interested to see whether Groves puts in on Carl early like the first fight and tries to stop him which could work but also could work against him and tire him out for the later rounds. Or will he box more on the back foot, countering Froch with his hand speed. This could also work but on the other hand could give Froch the chance for smother him and impose himself, let's not forget Grove's success in the first fight came from hunting Froch down so fighting on the back foot like he did V Degale might not work as well as everyone thinks.

At the moment I'm going Froch to stop him late but Froch points, Groves points or even Groves stoppage wouldn't surprise me.

Think that just about covers it

! That's my point! I'm thinking Froch stoppage at the moment, but not one outcome would truly surprise me. This is rare for a big fight as we usually go into them saying it's either one sided or if fighter A wins it will be points but Fighter B can only realistically win by stoppage.

freddydoesdallas wrote:Froch in 5. This fight goes a similar way to the Bute fight. Very measured aggression from Froch who jumps out of the blocks and lands combinations early to throw Groves off his gameplan and to an early ending.

DeGale then rematches Groves

Hmm, that could be a good shout as quite a lot are expecting groves to come out fast again

crusader wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Watch the first fight again, without the ridiculously biased commentary, especially from Watt, and actually score the rounds individually, paying attention at what is coming back from Froch, and then make your decision as to who you think will win.

Did all that and still thought it was a 6-2 fight for Groves, one in which he outlanded Froch and generally landed the better punches. There were also several times aside from the knockdown when Froch was getting hammered with hard punches and looking very uncomfortable to me. I think you're wrong in reducing perceptions of the first fight to commentary.

That said, I think Froch wins again. I don't think Groves has the engine or durability to keep Froch off over the distance and I doubt he stops him.

Well said Mr McDonnell. Jim Watt should be moved into the pre/post fight analysis and not commentating live.

And during the fight (as with many other bouts) I remember trying to shut him out. I like Jim Watt & was a fan of his when he was a fighter but his commentary is horrible.

So I watched the fight again with Romanian commentary and scored it exactly the same as Jim Watt I had Groves up 6-2 & I even had him winning the 9th.

I have no idea who would have gone on to win though and don't really care. They're both great in my opinion.

Groves was definitely going to lose the fight and get stopped within a few seconds. The bookies have priced it up on this basis, even though Groves was ahead and had outboxed Carl for long periods. The bookies have priced up the fight with the expectation that Froch stops Groves late again.

I think someone gets stopped but im not sure who. If Groves had landed that right hand with 1 minute left in the round, im sure he would have finished Carl and there is always going to be a chance that he lands and drops Carl again. Groves took some flush shots from Froch in the fight and showed a decent enough chin until the time of the stoppage (where he was in massive crisis and broke down for me - still stopped too early though).

I think the tactics will be similar from Groves and he will have worked on his stamina in case 12 rounds are required. This doesn't mean he'll be able to see out the 12 rounds though.

Before the first fight I wrote in a prediction thread on here, "Carl Froch will do whatever he has to do to beat George Groves" and I stand by that for this fight as well. I can't ignore Frochs amazing record and his will to get the job done. He will stop Groves imo, he's just too tough for Groves. This is a case of superior boxing skills literally being overpowered by heart, toughness and will.

Prediction: Pain.