giacomino wrote:I generally stay out of the discussions on Ol' Mussolini's stories, but ya'll are taking his shite too seriously. The internet is full of people who make shite up or ask questions aimed at making people respond emotionally. In the U.S., Fox News and MSNBC provide 24 hours of such bullshite. Was Michael Jordan a transvestite? Was Hilter Jewish? Was Margaret Thatcher a man? Is Obama a Kenyan Socialist who hates America? Were all 20 Ali title defenses fixed? Did the Cowboys purposely blow the 1967 Ice Bowl? I was a huge Cervantes fan during the 70s, but he wasn't infallible. Il Duce isn't going to provide proof. He's just asking a question and looking for a reaction. Fox oughta hire him
I see your point, but respectfully disagree. Duce is not just "asking a question", we all know that. He's trying to imply something bad. The same way people try to imply something bad when they have a vested interest on the topics you mentioned, as well as many others.
We are all smart enough to see the difference between asking an innocent question, and trying to insinuate something without wanting to say it directly. And that's what gets me the most, it's that he doesn't even have the guts to say directly what he thinks. I'd actually respect him a bit if he did that, oddly enough.
There's a way of framing the discussion(a discussion he always starts, at that) which clearly puts a negative bias on it. If that's not trolling and mods deem that he should stay that's fine, but let's not pretend he's just "Asking a question". To put it another way:
"I wonder what that Giacomino guy does for a living?"
and:
"I wonder if that Giacomino guy is actually a criminal? I'm not saying he is, but is he? I think he might be, just a feeling I have"
Are two vastly different things for me to say. One is a simple question, the other is a seed planted in bad faith. If I'm allowed to plant that seed, I suppose it is what it is, but we shouldn't sit around pretending I'm "just asking a question".
Bobby, I think you misunderstood me or I was unclear. I am saying he is trolling and posts like this should be ignored. Just as I ignore the nonsense trolling on Fox and MSNBC with their "questions," I simply think feeding someone trolling just makes them more hungry. Il Duce obviously feeds off responses.
Not sure dart is saying he believes him, but that he don't mind listening while Duce flaps his gums. And on occasion just like the stopped clock, he may be right.
He has little genuine corroboration. And though he can spin whole yarns that seem plausible at times..his overall body of work seems more insidious and odd than anything else.
But insidious and odd can be of interest, as long as you don't imagine that his alternate take on the universe has any necessary relationship with the one we live in.
I sort of like having a conversation about him as if he's not here Partly because I suspect he's really NOT all here.
giacomino wrote:I generally stay out of the discussions on Ol' Mussolini's stories, but ya'll are taking his shite too seriously. The internet is full of people who make shite up or ask questions aimed at making people respond emotionally. In the U.S., Fox News and MSNBC provide 24 hours of such bullshite. Was Michael Jordan a transvestite? Was Hilter Jewish? Was Margaret Thatcher a man? Is Obama a Kenyan Socialist who hates America? Were all 20 Ali title defenses fixed? Did the Cowboys purposely blow the 1967 Ice Bowl? I was a huge Cervantes fan during the 70s, but he wasn't infallible. Il Duce isn't going to provide proof. He's just asking a question and looking for a reaction. Fox oughta hire him
I see your point, but respectfully disagree. Duce is not just "asking a question", we all know that. He's trying to imply something bad. The same way people try to imply something bad when they have a vested interest on the topics you mentioned, as well as many others.
We are all smart enough to see the difference between asking an innocent question, and trying to insinuate something without wanting to say it directly. And that's what gets me the most, it's that he doesn't even have the guts to say directly what he thinks. I'd actually respect him a bit if he did that, oddly enough.
There's a way of framing the discussion(a discussion he always starts, at that) which clearly puts a negative bias on it. If that's not trolling and mods deem that he should stay that's fine, but let's not pretend he's just "Asking a question". To put it another way:
"I wonder what that Giacomino guy does for a living?"
and:
"I wonder if that Giacomino guy is actually a criminal? I'm not saying he is, but is he? I think he might be, just a feeling I have"
Are two vastly different things for me to say. One is a simple question, the other is a seed planted in bad faith. If I'm allowed to plant that seed, I suppose it is what it is, but we shouldn't sit around pretending I'm "just asking a question".
Bobby, I think you misunderstood me or I was unclear. I am saying he is trolling and posts like this should be ignored. Just as I ignore the nonsense trolling on Fox and MSNBC with their "questions," I simply think feeding someone trolling just makes them more hungry. Il Duce obviously feeds off responses.
And I just added one
Sorry about that, I suppose I missed the forest for the trees in your post back there.
And don't feel too bad, I add to his threads sometimes of course. But I think compared to some of the threads where he's discussing solely by himself, or with his sock puppet account, it isn't that big of a deal.
You guys are missing the point. BoxBuzz, you should get it. Giancarlo, you act like an enraged child on this board following Duce around raging at everything he says and I don't think you can get it. You're like an old widow woman shrieking about overcooked cornbread and you contribute absolutely Zilch to any thread I've ever seen you "participate" in. Whether Duce eventually gets bounced or not, doubt that will change.
It's really simple. I click on threads Duce starts that I believe will be interesting. The "Bad News" Wallace thread, for instance. Or I start a thread and Duce adds something substantial. I get something good. Duce and I get along and the world is a harmonious place.
I see the 765th Ali thread or a Harry Greb "Let's bait Klompton" thread and I either avoid it altogether (see how easy this is?) or I read it and don't take it as some titanic threat (see how easy that is?) to the hallowed halls of boxing history and start petitions to ban him off the board or send e-mails to my Congressman. I get the good from Duce, ignore the bad and the world is still a harmonious place. This tactic works well in other areas of life too and allows you to find value in folks you don't always agree with.
I don't believe everything anyone says, especially on this board. It's a message board to voice OPINIONS on classic boxing, for Chrissakes. I come here for entertainment, a diversion from the stress of life, and to occasionally relive or learn something about my favorite period in a sport that has largely died and isn't likely ever coming back to life the way I want to remember it.
I have to say I agree with Dart here. I've no doubt that Duce is a bit of a crank (who isn't) and it'd be better for my understanding if he asked the question and then gave his take and opinion in one post. I think it's a decent enough question - I know a former fighter who threw a fight, he was paid to not try, to just go a few rounds and was told off by his corner between rounds for punching back hard.
There is/was a lot of money washing around at world level for well connected fighters and not everything was always on the level. Doing what is best for you and yours isn't always a horribly corrupt thing and doesn't necessarily make you a disgusting person.
Palooka, excellent post and well stated, but you're wasting your time trying to reason with "the kids" on this thread. Duce plays them like a fiddle and they screech and moan and point fingers and not much else.
I watched the fight again and I can't tell if Cervantes has the cuffs on or not. Looked like a glorified sparring session to me, but Benitez made a lot of fights into those. A really good fighter can make it impossible to tell if he's holding back.
'El Invincible Antonio Cervantes Ante El Joven Wilfred Benitez'
The 30 year-old Colombian ~ Antonio Cervantes is the most confident boxer in the world.
The WBA Light-Welterweight Champion is the most superior boxing talent in the sport today, and carries the
presence of a true Ring Master.
'Kid Pambele' brings with him > Speed, strength, power, stamina and unmatched Ring Generalship to go along
with '122-Bouts' over a 14-Year career, with a record of 106-12-4 {42 KO's}.
His opponent is a {17 year-old} teenage boxer from Puerto Rico named Wilfred Benitez. Wilfred has a pretty
significant record of 27-0-0 {22 KO's}, but the youngster is far from a puncher as his record might indicate.
He relies on quickness, and a fast left-hand. He dislikes rough-combat or close in-fighting, and prefers to
counter-punch with fast-and-accurate punches.
It is a contrasting match-up of 'experience and power' versus 'youth and speed'.
What has brought 'Kid Pambele' to San Jan, Puerto Rico. A 'dizzying bag' of nearly $200,000, the most substantial
Fight Purse of his life.
The Champion who is Colombian, lives in Caracas, Venezuela and is a part owner of a Boxing Gymnasium there. He also
owns '3' Fishing Boats, and has a Sporting Goods line back in his native home of Colombia.
Antonio Cervantes >
"I cannot be beaten. I will lose to no one before I retire this year."
The Champion is a {4-1} Betting-Favorite.
J Canalis {Reporter}
You do know that the article in question doesn't say any of that? Some people here speak Spanish.
'El Invincible Antonio Cervantes Ante El Joven Wilfred Benitez'
The 30 year-old Colombian ~ Antonio Cervantes is the most confident boxer in the world.
The WBA Light-Welterweight Champion is the most superior boxing talent in the sport today, and carries the
presence of a true Ring Master.
'Kid Pambele' brings with him > Speed, strength, power, stamina and unmatched Ring Generalship to go along
with '122-Bouts' over a 14-Year career, with a record of 106-12-4 {42 KO's}.
His opponent is a {17 year-old} teenage boxer from Puerto Rico named Wilfred Benitez. Wilfred has a pretty
significant record of 27-0-0 {22 KO's}, but the youngster is far from a puncher as his record might indicate.
He relies on quickness, and a fast left-hand. He dislikes rough-combat or close in-fighting, and prefers to
counter-punch with fast-and-accurate punches.
It is a contrasting match-up of 'experience and power' versus 'youth and speed'.
What has brought 'Kid Pambele' to San Jan, Puerto Rico. A 'dizzying bag' of nearly $200,000, the most substantial
Fight Purse of his life.
The Champion who is Colombian, lives in Caracas, Venezuela and is a part owner of a Boxing Gymnasium there. He also
owns '3' Fishing Boats, and has a Sporting Goods line back in his native home of Colombia.
Antonio Cervantes >
"I cannot be beaten. I will lose to no one before I retire this year."
The Champion is a {4-1} Betting-Favorite.
J Canalis {Reporter}
You do know that the article in question doesn't say any of that? Some people here speak Spanish.
'El Invincible Antonio Cervantes Ante El Joven Wilfred Benitez'
The 30 year-old Colombian ~ Antonio Cervantes is the most confident boxer in the world.
The WBA Light-Welterweight Champion is the most superior boxing talent in the sport today, and carries the
presence of a true Ring Master.
'Kid Pambele' brings with him > Speed, strength, power, stamina and unmatched Ring Generalship to go along
with '122-Bouts' over a 14-Year career, with a record of 106-12-4 {42 KO's}.
His opponent is a {17 year-old} teenage boxer from Puerto Rico named Wilfred Benitez. Wilfred has a pretty
significant record of 27-0-0 {22 KO's}, but the youngster is far from a puncher as his record might indicate.
He relies on quickness, and a fast left-hand. He dislikes rough-combat or close in-fighting, and prefers to
counter-punch with fast-and-accurate punches.
It is a contrasting match-up of 'experience and power' versus 'youth and speed'.
What has brought 'Kid Pambele' to San Jan, Puerto Rico. A 'dizzying bag' of nearly $200,000, the most substantial
Fight Purse of his life.
The Champion who is Colombian, lives in Caracas, Venezuela and is a part owner of a Boxing Gymnasium there. He also
owns '3' Fishing Boats, and has a Sporting Goods line back in his native home of Colombia.
Antonio Cervantes >
"I cannot be beaten. I will lose to no one before I retire this year."
The Champion is a {4-1} Betting-Favorite.
J Canalis {Reporter}
You do know that the article in question doesn't say any of that? Some people here speak Spanish.
I don't speak Spanish, what does the article say?
Well... I'm not going to translate the entire article for you, but it's a pretty standard preview of the bout. No mention of their records, no mention of their purses, no mention of the betting odds, no mention of any fishing boats and no talk of Cervantes retiring. In fact, he hopes to win so he can take on Roberto Duran soon.
Benitez certainly showed in his later fights that his win over Cervantes was fixed. The bleedin' obvious flies over the heads of the those who shout 'conspiracy!'
Last edited by bennie on 14 May 2014, 09:02, edited 1 time in total.
When I read Il Duces posts it makes you feel like you put your socks on before your underpants when everyone knows it should be the other way round, or like wearing brown shoes with black trousers and then the whole day just doesnt feel right.
