BoxRec

Do you really think it was impossible for Golovkin to have fought better opposition considering he's been world-rated since 2008 and has gone on record claiming that he's willing to face anyone from 154lbs to 168lbs?

fergusg wrote:Like I’ve already stated, there may be legitimate reasons why some of the men I listed weren’t viable options, but he almost certainly could have faced better opponents if his career was better managed, especially when you consider the fact that he's been world-rated since 2008 and has even gone on record claiming that he's willing to face anyone from 154lbs to 168lbs.

For me, it just seems ludicrous that he’s only fought two semi-decent fighters throughout his entire career, considering he’s been a professional for well over eight years, coupled with his outstanding amateur pedigree.

I’m not being funny, but if Vasyl Lomachenko can have two world championship fights after only three professional fights… and there’s genuine talk of him being matched against the likes of Jhonny Gonzalez, Abner Mares, Nonito Donaire, Evgeny Gradovich or Nicholas Walters… then why can’t Gennady Golovkin’s career be managed in a similar manner?

I’m frankly unable to buy into the media hype that nearly all the big name fighters from 2008 onwards, campaigning in the weight classes ranging from 154lbs to 168lbs are refusing to fight Golovkin because they’re so terrified of him that they’ve requested an unreasonable amount of money to agree to sign-up for the contest. It just seems completely implausible to me... merely a mythical story to help generate public interest.

VG_Addict wrote:After this, nobody can say that GGG isn't legit, with wins over 5 top 10 MWs.

jujigatame wrote:

VG_Addict wrote:After this, nobody can say that GGG isn't legit, with wins over 5 top 10 MWs.

I don't think any of the handful of people who still don't think GGG is legit are going to be swayed by a win over Rubio.

fergusg wrote:

ikorolev wrote:It is a mythical story based on facts. Lomachenko is exceptional, and Arum's bullying management style where he can just have his fighters face who he wants helped Vasyl.

In other words, I'm 100% correct in what I've said... Golovkin could have engaged in some big fights if he was better managed, much akin to Lomachenko handlers.

fergusg wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:That's touching. How about you get familiarized with the facts before getting all wordy on us? For example that nobody in boxing gives as generous a purse split to the challengers, or that most of the names you dropped were offered fights vs Ggg, or that 2008 is meaningless since he was barred from fighting in the US and Germany while trying to break from Universum etc. Next time get informed first

I think you should read my other posts in this thread before criticising my thoughts, because you'll come across as rather ignorant otherwise! And besides, if you're building a PPV fighter, sometimes compromises with purse sizes have to be made if you are trying to get fights with the biggest name fighters. He's been a world champion since 2010... or have you conveniently forgotten about that? :??

fergusg wrote:

ikorolev wrote:It is a mythical story based on facts. Lomachenko is exceptional, and Arum's bullying management style where he can just have his fighters face who he wants helped Vasyl.

In other words, I'm 100% correct in what I've said... Golovkin could have engaged in some big fights if he was better managed, much akin to Lomachenko handlers.

fergusg wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:So what your saying is your last 2 long posts are garbage and should be ignored? I got that much. They are making compromises with the purses, dumbo:

GGG 750k, Geale 600k
GGG 400k, Stevens 300k
GGG 350k, Macklin 300k

What other A side champ gives a split that generous?

This doesn’t prove anything, because none of us are privy to the negotiations, or lack thereof, that took place with the top-tier middleweight fighters. So we don’t know what was discussed, but it seems the media and Golovkin’s fans assume that "fear" is upping the price for such bouts to take place.

We know for certain that Abel Sanchez claims there wasn’t enough money for a bout against S.O.G. to take place and that they wouldn’t allow Ward to dictate terms, because they believed GGG was the bigger name. These were his own words.

Similarly, whilst the financials were agreed, Chavez Jr. walked away from the GGG negotiations, because Top Rank wanted to him to sign a contract extension, which no man in his situation with mental capacity would agree to those terms, but to repeat myself… that’s not what I call being avoided, it's not "pulling out" because the fight wasn't signed... nor is it being greedy either.

You only need to look at the circumstances of what the media were told about the Ward & Chavez Jr. negotiations to realise that there was a lack of compromise, especially from a team representing a fighter craving bouts against the biggest names in the sport.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:You don't seem to understand that his management changed in 2012, when he signed with K2. That, plus the fortunate HBO exposure, and his profile and standard of comp has gone up since. But without the unlikely HBO backing, even guys like Rubio Geale and Macklin wouldn't touch him

I understand that Golovkin was already training in Big Bear with Abel Sanchez whilst his handlers were negotiating with Showtime and HBO in February 2012… at the very same time, prestigious boxing scribes like Dan Rafael were already hyping him up telling everyone he was “the next big thing.” So GGG’s handlers have had 2½ years to turn things around.

I need to make myself abundantly clear… I am a big fan of Gennady Golovkin. It’s just that I feel that his career has been badly managed, because he should have mixed with a better level of competition befitting of someone widely rated as a pound-for-pound fighter. Is that so unreasonable? :??

Barker said, “There’s nobody going to bother Golovkin at middleweight. Gennady will have to move up because he’ll batter anyone at 160 pounds. Cotto would get annihilated and, in terms of British talent, Martin Murray doesn’t stand a chance. I’m not being disrespectful to Martin when I say that, it’s just if you’re a middleweight you’ve had it."

fergusg wrote:@Purse Bid Shakedown - So being aggressive is supposed to deter me from my stance?

Why would Chavez Jr. sign a contract extension with Top Rank when Bob Arum usually takes 27% of his fighters’ purse? We know for certain that the financials of the contract were agreed, but this contract extension was the stumbling block.

Darren Barker made those comments during his retirement.

You say that now Golovkin is with HBO, "has several top ten wins", but apart from Macklin & Geale, who else has he fought that was considered “top ten”? Adama & Stevens weren’t regarded as top ten middleweights when they shared the ring with GGG.

It simply amazes me that the best opponents on Golovkin’s resume are Macklin and Geale… and I’m surprised that no one else questions this. Apparently it’s perfectly acceptable to fight fans that certain boxers are allowed to be classed amongst the pound-for-pound elite without actually proving their talent against the very best in their own division.

fergusg wrote:@Purse Bid Shakedown - So being aggressive is supposed to deter me from my stance?

Why would Chavez Jr. sign a contract extension with Top Rank when Bob Arum usually takes 27% of his fighters’ purse? We know for certain that the financials of the contract were agreed, but this contract extension was the stumbling block.

Darren Barker made those comments during his retirement.

You say that now Golovkin is with HBO, "has several top ten wins", but apart from Macklin & Geale, who else has he fought that was considered “top ten”? Adama & Stevens weren’t regarded as top ten middleweights when they shared the ring with GGG.

It simply amazes me that the best opponents on Golovkin’s resume are Macklin and Geale… and I’m surprised that no one else questions this. Apparently it’s perfectly acceptable to fight fans that certain boxers are allowed to be classed amongst the pound-for-pound elite without actually proving their talent against the very best in their own division.

fergusg wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:This Arum thing is none of GGG's fault, he got a great offer and signed it pronto. Not that you know what you're talking about here.

I don’t personally blame Gennady Golovkin for the way his career was managed, but it’s an irrefutable fact that Top Rank, HBO and K2 have a working relationship to joint promote and televise his bouts. So if one of these parties makes an unreasonable demand during contract negotiations, which prevents the possibility of a big fight materialising, then it is their responsibility… not the third-party.

In simple terms: Top Rank, HBO and K2 are "Golovkin’s team", because they are representing his and their own interests. If one of these parties makes unreasonable demands, then "Team Golovkin" have acted in an unreasonable manner, because these are the people that represent/promote him.

fergusg wrote:

ikorolev wrote:How the f4ck Chavez not wanting to sign extension with his promoter is Golovkin's team fault ? How the f4ck, Hearn, DiBella, DLH saying that their fighters should stay away from GGG is his team's fault ? Your claims are absolutely ridiculous.

You’ll need to narrow it down… exactly what claim have I made is “ridiculous?”

I’ll list the main points to summarise my thoughts:
• I love the way Golovkin fights. He's one of my favourite fighters
• Macklin and Geale are the only top-tier middleweights he’s faced, the rest are on a level below
• GGG is an extremely experienced fighter who’s been a world champion/world-class for a very long time
• HBO, Top Rank and K2 promotions have a working relationship to promote/televise GGG’s fights and are jointly-involved in contract negotiations
• If Golovkin’s career was managed better, he would have already fought better names, because there are many fighters campaigning between 154lbs and 168lbs that GGG should have already faced if his career was managed accordingly
• No fighter is immune from criticism and I don’t’ always buy into the media hype or excuses given, regardless of my natural bias towards my favourite fighters

I believe my thoughts are reasonable, even if you don't.

fergusg wrote: Golovkin isn’t a Top Rank fighter, but Top Rank has a working relationship with K2 promotions and often joint promote events. I’m led to believe they have both joint-promoted several GGG fights televised by HBO even though he is officially a K2 fighter, so by proxy, they're part of his team (due to their affiliation with K2).

fergusg wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

fergusg wrote: Golovkin isn’t a Top Rank fighter, but Top Rank has a working relationship with K2 promotions and often joint promote events. I’m led to believe they have both joint-promoted several GGG fights televised by HBO even though he is officially a K2 fighter, so by proxy, they're part of his team (due to their affiliation with K2).

No they're not, clueless. Top Rank has a working relationship with most promoters, soon to include GBP. K2 has no promotional experience in the US and will work with whoever available. Hey this is one of the dumbest things I read here, that GGG is somehow in part responsible for Chavez refusing to sign.

Besides, there's nothing unreasonable in Arum wanting extension for a fat offer. That's what a promoter would do.

I never said that GGG was personally responsible for Chavez Jr. not signing the contract, but his promotional partner was.

Let me try to explain the situation to you… Top Rank wanted to retain the services of a PPV fighter, Chavez Jr., so they tried to entice him by dangling the Golovkin bout, coupled with a decent payday… with the only condition that he sign a contract extension.

K2 go along with this ruse (as they are promotional partners with Top Rank), because whatever the outcome, it’s a win-win situation for them. If Chavez Jr. agrees, then they get the fight they want, if he doesn’t then they can lay claim that yet another fighter has “pulled out” from fighting their man… and they can then use Chavez’s name to help market a bout against a lesser opponent and also enhance his perceived notoriety (i.e. "eveyone is too scared to fight Golovkin!").

After all, Bob Arum has pulled this trick before….he had previously used Mayweather's name to drum up publicity for a Pacquiao vs. Margarito contest that was coincidently announced shortly after the 14-day deadline imposed on Team Mayweather to agree to the terms and conditions of "fictional" fight negotiations that he claimed had expired, but had never actually taken place!

fergusg wrote:

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:So what was K2 supposed to do? Convince Arum to give Chavez 7m but without an extension? Or what's your suggestion? And how's that a ruse? Chavez was offered very good terms to extend, just Arum doing his job.

Chavez Jr. wanted to become a free agent because he felt that Bob Arum was not managing his career correctly and didn’t want to keep on giving him 27% of his fight purse. Fighters such as Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Miguel Cotto and Mikey Garcia have previously either left or are currently challenging the practices of Top Rank for the very same reasons.

K2 probably suspected that Chavez Jr. wasn’t going to agree to a contract extension (well at least the majority of the media did), but they went along with it anyway, because they have a duty to maintain relationships with their partners... and like I said before, it was always going to be a win-win situation for them.

Bob Arum wanted to dangle a carrot to trap Chavez Jr. and K2 were happy for Golovkin to play the role of the proverbial "carrot", because it would have helped their situation regardless the outcome.

I don't see how anyone can say Arum mistreated Chavez or anything like that.

uptconnect wrote:

I don't see how anyone can say Arum mistreated Chavez or anything like that.

Quite the opposite, actually.
Arum had Chavez earning PPV purses when he was barely capable of scoring a draw with the likes of Matt Vanda.
Chavez should kiss Arum's ass for the rest of his life.

ikorolev wrote:Golovkin will have an "honor" to own a WBC interim title:

http://www.BS.com/sulaiman-gol ... tto--81258?

which will make him mandatory for Cotto. Of course, stars have ways to avoid mandatories.