BoxRec

Lennox wrote:Tell me the fighters that you think beat Anthony Joshua if they fight tomorrow?

Vlad, Chisora and Fury not because of a lack of talent but of a lack of experience .... specifically 12 round experience, Tony Thompson would be a draw and a great yardstick

crusader wrote:I'm confident that Wlad would beat him and if Haye returned in form I'd favor him over Joshua as well. There are loads of others like Povetkin, Takam, Chisora, and Wilder who I think would have good chances of beating Joshua too, but I'm less sure when it comes to those types. Aside from thinking that Wlad is clearly better than him now, for me it's not so much that Joshua couldn't beat top fighters and be in the top three as it is that he hasn't answered certain questions in a way that suggests he should be there, so a it stands he hasn't shown me enough for him to take a top three spot.

We are not that far apart. I agree that he does not deserve to be top 3 because of the reasons you say. My point is subjective, if they fought tomorrow. Heavyweight boxing can be about one punch and they will all go with the right punch. I don't think the names you say are easy fights for Joshua though I do think he would win, if I picture Povetkin v Joshua I can't come up with a game plan Povetkin can win. Wilder I could see landing a big punch. I can't see anyone outside of Wlad outpointing him, but I think AJ would be able to land a big punch. David Haye I really don't know if he has any real interest like he used too, he is not a stupid person and deep down knows he is too small while Wlad is around and probably see's Joshua as the successor.

Unfortunately, his next opponent is a small heavyweight again. I think they should start "growing" his opponents. Why not Briggs ?

fergusg wrote:

ikorolev wrote:Unfortunately, his next opponent is a small heavyweight again.

Is anyone excited about seeing Anthony Joshua score another one-sided quick KO victory over another overmatched opponent, like Michael Sprott? It’s becoming incredibly tedious seeing him engage in those sort of fights!

Wilder had 32 of those sort of fights, so give Anthony a break. Hopefully, they will have somebody better after Sprott.

fergusg wrote:I believe that Anthony Joshua is an immensely talented prospect that possesses all the necessary physical gifts to “potentially” one day become a truly world-class heavyweight contender… or perhaps even a world champion.

That being said, he seemed complacent in his last three bouts and made some fundamental mistakes, but this may be because he was so confident of victory that he thought his opponents were utterly powerless to stop him.

I’m a big fan of Eddie Hearn, but I am beginning to grow weary of him matching AJ with opponents that are seemingly only there to add knockout highlights to Anthony Joshua’s marketing material. There’s no way in hell AJ can possibly learn anything whatsoever from dominating the type of men he’s faced so far.

People may criticise me for my opinion, but it was clear to me five or six fights ago that Anthony Joshua is merely treading water by fighting against overmatched journeymen.

I’m not normally an advocate for “rushing” fighters, but AJ’s cocky smiling and fundamental mistakes against Bakhtov leads me to believe that the time is right for him to face a legitimate threat… someone that will force him to focus, pace himself and utilise his boxing skills.

Therefore, I really do feel that Anthony Joshua needs to be matched against men like David Price, Tony Thompson, Manuel Charr, Eddie Chambers, Ruslan Chagaev and Andy Ruiz Jr.

I’m personally against the inevitable “pendulum swinging” effect found in the majority of naïve fans and media where they go from one vine (fighter) to the next based on the sport’s most recent noteworthy performance. So it’s a bit premature to claim that Anthony Joshua is anything other than talented but untested top-30 prospect at this stage of his career.

That was his 9th fight tonight and he fought the 45th best heavyweight according to the IWBR ratings. Baktov is a decent gatekeeper. Statistically very few fighters at Heavyweight have broken in to the top 30 with less fights so he is actually being rushed and his opponent quality has been quite high for a nine time fighter.

What you need to consider is fighters do need fights for confidence and practice.
Sparring is important but can only learn so much.
From the time any fighter steps up, the next fights are much less important if they are worse opponents.
As soon as you face a top 15 fighter, it is going to cost a lot and the opponent price goes up afterwards if you win.

All those things slightly contradict each other and also opponents in the top 15/20 often reject fights because of promotional conflicts or other plans. It is not as easy and people think to get the right fights.

If he keeps fighting 6 -8 times over the next 12 months beating fighters ranked between 15-50 that is probably the right level. Tony Thompson would be the sort of opponent I would look for in the next few fights. I think the big fight is 15/18 months off so we should expect Joshua to be close on 20-0 with 20 knock outs when the time comes, he won't be able to keep fighting better opponents though just because of the logistics.

Joshua fights pretty patiently. His patience probably won't attract as many followers as Wilder, who hunts for the KO. But Joshua's style needs minimal adjustment to be ready for fights on the world's stage. It's perfect for 12-rounders against good opposition.

Gerald Washington would destroy Anthony Joshua

fergusg wrote:I believe that Anthony Joshua is an immensely talented prospect that possesses all the necessary physical gifts to “potentially” one day become a truly world-class heavyweight contender… or perhaps even a world champion.

That being said, he seemed complacent in his last three bouts and made some fundamental mistakes, but this may be because he was so confident of victory that he thought his opponents were utterly powerless to stop him.

I’m a big fan of Eddie Hearn, but I am beginning to grow weary of him matching AJ with opponents that are seemingly only there to add knockout highlights to Anthony Joshua’s marketing material. There’s no way in hell AJ can possibly learn anything whatsoever from dominating the type of men he’s faced so far.

People may criticise me for my opinion, but it was clear to me five or six fights ago that Anthony Joshua is merely treading water by fighting against overmatched journeymen.

I’m not normally an advocate for “rushing” fighters, but AJ’s cocky smiling and fundamental mistakes against Bakhtov leads me to believe that the time is right for him to face a legitimate threat… someone that will force him to focus, pace himself and utilise his boxing skills.

Therefore, I really do feel that Anthony Joshua needs to be matched against men like David Price, Tony Thompson, Manuel Charr, Eddie Chambers, Ruslan Chagaev and Andy Ruiz Jr.

I’m personally against the inevitable “pendulum swinging” effect found in the majority of naïve fans and media where they go from one vine (fighter) to the next based on the sport’s most recent noteworthy performance. So it’s a bit premature to claim that Anthony Joshua is anything other than talented but untested top-30 prospect at this stage of his career.

So before this fight you said bakhtov was a good test and now he's been beaten in two rounds he was just an overmatched journeyman.

If Joshua fights and beats charr quickly, which he would, you would be complaining again. Im not sure you know how matchmaking works. Joshua has been matched tougher than nearly every heavyweight in recent years.

Joshua is easily the best up-and-coming heavyweight. He seems to be a well-rounded fighter: size, speed, technical skills, power, reach, footwork, etc. He still needs a bit of work on his defense.

There's a very good chance he will become the next heavyweight champion after Wladimir retires (become the real champion, not just a titleholder).

I was impressed by AJ's speed and thought he showed good movement. Of course there is no guarantee he could keep that up over 12 rounds but he needs to get in with someone who can take him more than three before those sort of questions get close to being answered.

Fighting Sprott is a bit pointless - just a few more pounds in the bank account. Maybe looking to get the British title sooner rather than later would be a good idea for marketing if not getting worthwhile experience should be the next step. Of the people who would be interested in fighting for that title AJ is already the best so he might as well get the belt.

Joshua looks impressive to me, its still early days but he has a confidence to his work that can take him a long way. In terms of how good he is right now, its hard to say, they just need to keep stepping up the opposition steadily over the next year and then he should be ready for anyone in the division.... I'm not too worried about the 'his chin hasn't been tested' issue. The guy at the top of the division doesn't get his chin tested, and when he did he was a raw aggressive fighter who was getting KO'd by second tier opposition. As long as Joshua keeps progressing the way he is, I don't much care about his chin. The problem with, for example, David Price isn't he chin, its a lack of confidence and ability to control a fight against a live opponent. You don't need a good chin to dominate the heavy weight division, especially this era.

I think the speed of Joshua's development and match-making as a pro has been spot on up to this point. We have to remember that while he's an Olympic Gold medalist, he only took up boxing six years ago at age 18 - for a prospect he's a very late starter to the sport. He has also only been fighting as a pro for 12 months and had nine fights, so it makes sense to move him along carefully. If I were managing him, I would be looking at having six fights in the next 12 months, gradually stepping up his level of competition as well as taking on some more durable opponents that he can go rounds with. Something like this:

November '14 - Michael Sprott
February '15 - Derric Rossy
April '15 - Kevin Johnson
June '15 - Fres Oquendo
August '15 - Alexader Ustinov
November '15 - Ruslan Chagaev

He's a fantastic prospect no doubt, but he needs to be developed carefully and he needs to have his stamina tested by going rounds.

Whoever is managing Wilder's career either:
1) knows he has no chin/stamina, and is a genius, or
2) is an idiot.

Malik Scott, Kevin Johnson, Lucas Browne, Chris Arreola, are the people he needs to be looking to get in the ring with. All look durable, all offer different problems be it offensively or defensively.

Its time to sample later rounds, and different styles as guys a the top of the tree will catch him out when he gets there.

Yes We Can wrote:Malik Scott, Kevin Johnson, Lucas Browne, Chris Arreola, are the people he needs to be looking to get in the ring with. All look durable, all offer different problems be it offensively or defensively.

Its time to sample later rounds, and different styles as guys a the top of the tree will catch him out when he gets there.

Malik Scott, durable?!

i could see joshua fighting chisora in 12 months strong and durable but not a banger and with a good ranking .
the only thing that i'd need to see now from joshua is can he do 10 rounds with out to much trouble , if he can do that then i'll be completely sold on him

fergusg wrote:
It’s obvious that you think I’m a troll, which means you’ll ignore my opinion, because you’ll claim it to be absurd even if it agrees with yours… so let me ask you another question…

Are you excited about seeing Anthony Joshua score another one-sided quick KO victory over another overmatched opponent, like Michael Sprott? Is that what you call good match-making?

Yes. It's fine. I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you're being matched as tough as Joshua (he's been a pro for a single year!), and especially in the heavyweight division, you get to a point where these idealised 'incremental improvements in opposition' simply don't happen. There will be some treading water, some keep busy and some showcase fights in the mix. Most of the names people want to see him in with wouldn't take the fight. People talk as if Hearn has a queue of heavyweights with gradually improving rankings and nice variations in styles who would sign at the drop of a hat. Boxing isn't like that.

If Joshua steps up to guys on the level of a Kevin Johnson he would be fighting three times a year tops.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

fergusg wrote:
It’s obvious that you think I’m a troll, which means you’ll ignore my opinion, because you’ll claim it to be absurd even if it agrees with yours… so let me ask you another question…

Are you excited about seeing Anthony Joshua score another one-sided quick KO victory over another overmatched opponent, like Michael Sprott? Is that what you call good match-making?

Yes. It's fine. I've said it before and I'll say it again. When you're being matched as tough as Joshua (he's been a pro for a single year!), and especially in the heavyweight division, you get to a point where these idealised 'incremental improvements in opposition' simply don't happen. There will be some treading water, some keep busy and some showcase fights in the mix. Most of the names people want to see him in with wouldn't take the fight. People talk as if Hearn has a queue of heavyweights with gradually improving rankings and nice variations in styles who would sign at the drop of a hat. Boxing isn't like that.

If Joshua steps up to guys on the level of a Kevin Johnson he would be fighting three times a year tops.

Good post, my chosen six opponents were really a best-case-scenario - they are guys who MIGHT take a fight with Joshua in the next 12 months, but I'm not suggesting that they all would. I think at this point Joshua needs to step up the durability of his opponents to go some rounds, as he's not going to develop as much as he could if he keeps on blowing guys out.

I don't think Joshua should be fighting as little as three times a year until he has a world title belt - not saying that he will, but I'm a strong believer that boxers should remain as active as possible while giving themselves adequate recovery time from injuries and tough fights.

Lennox wrote: AJ is very fast.

baron_otto wrote:I was impressed by AJ's speed

Folk are seeing the light

"A late-starter in the sport, Joshua only took up boxing in 2007"

He only threw his first jab 7 years ago, i think it could be his downfall at elite level.

Everyone is pretty close to agreeing the same things about Anthony Joshua. He fights a top 50 ranked fighter blows him away then someone chirps he did not learn anything and it was a waste time. I suspect Chris Arreolla and Manuel Charr will go with the first punch, though they may know enough to avoid that punch for a couple of rounds.

I think he will fight 8 more times before he fights for a title, so you will get a mix up of top 60/70 type fighters with one or two from the top 20. Tony Thompson seems the easiest to make. Tyson Fury will be a fight they will all keep for big money provided they can keep him unbeaten.

Joshua should fight Ustinov. He's a big, tall, hard-punching HW.

He should also fight Wach, who would definitely give him rounds.

CheckHook wrote:I'm not too worried about the 'his chin hasn't been tested' issue. The guy at the top of the division doesn't get his chin tested, and when he did he was a raw aggressive fighter who was getting KO'd by second tier opposition. As long as Joshua keeps progressing the way he is, I don't much care about his chin. The problem with, for example, David Price isn't he chin, its a lack of confidence and ability to control a fight against a live opponent. You don't need a good chin to dominate the heavy weight division, especially this era.

I think an untested chin is very relevant when you're claiming that a nine fight pro whose best opponent is Dennis Bakhtov is the top fighter in the division, which is the point I was responding to. Sure, someone like Wlad can go without being touched for years because he's so much better than his opposition and he's proven that, but I think those cases are generally rare and even then I'd say that his chin held him back in several fights, including his bouts with Sanders and other fights where he was dropped. Moreover, Wlad's stamina issues, which I think were clearly factors in his losses to Purrity and Brewster, were hardly a problem with he was blowing away mediocre opposition early in his career. Price obviously has flaws other than his chin, but I find it hard to believe that with a decent set of whiskers he would've been stopped like he was in the first Thompson fight or dropped by Pala.

Joshua, unlike a nearly 70 fight pro in Wlad, has yet to answer questions about several attributes that are important to one's success, and while he may beat top fighters like he beat Airich and Bakhtov I suspect that he'll eventually be hit hard by a good puncher, taken several rounds further than he's been, and face opponents leagues better than the limited, undersized fighters he's been blowing away impressively and who will likely be able to hit him and avoid his punches significantly better than anyone he's fought. He's looked very good so far and I don't see a more promising HW prospect, but without much of an idea of the abilities he'll show in the latter situations and without much evidence that he'll just outclass top opponents to the point where those situations don't occur, I think saying that he's already the top fighter in the division ability-wise is premature.

Joshua looked good.
Still a ways to go but it's looking good for him so far.

AJ won't be fighting for a world title for at least another two years. He has only been a pro for a year. They have no need to rush him.
I suspect it would be another 10-12 fights at least before he challenges for a title, assuming he keeps improving etc
They will go the British, Commonwealth route with him which means no Wach, Ustinov or Thompson just yet.

Get him sparring with Wlad as often as possible, and the rest of the established top heavies.

^
Absolutely.
Joshua has loads of time, they'll be able to bring him along properly.