BoxRec

ikorolev wrote:

lefty wrote:Anyone know where there's a link to the fight? I really wanna see it but cant find it anywhere.

How about looking above in this thread ?

I did.

lefty wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

lefty wrote:Anyone know where there's a link to the fight? I really wanna see it but cant find it anywhere.

How about looking above in this thread ?

I did.

PM's.

lefty wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

lefty wrote:Anyone know where there's a link to the fight? I really wanna see it but cant find it anywhere.

How about looking above in this thread ?

I did.

Ah, they removed it. You can see most of the fight here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXT0hZHZmlQ

There wasn't much more. Before the first KD, they were mainly just exchanging jabs.

This guy was made for pro boxing. I followed him in the amateurs for years and was frustrated that he turned pro so late. I think Cloud was a bit overrated and this should be his fourth consecutive loss, but I was still impressed by how Beterbiev won. I'm not prepared to put him alongside Kovalev/Stevenson/Hopkins yet, but the potential is clearly there.

One of my favorite Beterbiev KO's from the amateurs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB_NFPdtxpI (7:40)

hulkmaniac wrote:Kovalevs chin is kind of suspect, plus he got stopped in the amateurs by some guy who I am not familiar with.

The guy who stopped him is a two time world amateur champion, so I imagine that you don't follow the amateurs too closely.

crusader wrote:

hulkmaniac wrote:Kovalevs chin is kind of suspect, plus he got stopped in the amateurs by some guy who I am not familiar with.

The guy who stopped him is a two time world amateur champion. I imagine that you don't follow the amateurs too closely. Also, you say 'plus' but aside from that stoppage why is his chin suspect?

Does that exlude the possibility of him having a suspect chin though?

Nope, and I never said it did, but he says that as if he doesn't know Attoev because the latter wasn't a top amateur, and that by extension the stoppage reflects more poorly on Kovalev.

crusader wrote:Nope, and I never said it did, but he says that as if he doesn't know Attoev because the latter wasn't a top amateur, and that by extension the stoppage reflects more poorly on Kovalev.

Ah ok. Fairpoint. I dont know if Attoev is known for having power or not so I cant really gauge it. His chin has looked ok so far to me although it's not really been tested so far by someone who's a puncher I dont think. Have to give him the benefit of the doubt though.

It's still a question imo. The KD against Caparello wasn't a chin issue and I haven't seen the Boone KD, but many fighters with fine chins get dropped early in their career. He's look unfazed when he's been hit in recent bouts, and that makes me confident that he takes a punch significantly better than someone like Sillakh, but he hasn't faced any serious hitters either.

crusader wrote:It's still a question imo. The KD against Caparello wasn't a chin issue and I haven't seen the Boone KD, but many fighters with fine chins get dropped early in their career. He's look unfazed when he's been hit in recent bouts, and that makes me confident that he takes a punch significantly better than someone like Sillakh, but he hasn't faced any serious hitters either.

I doubt Hopkins is going to test it either which could be his downfall.

Note that Cloud has deteriorated dramatically since he went in as an unbeaten power-punching champion and was easily pounded by Hopkins.

Next up, on Nov. 8, the masterful Hopkins goes in and spits out another over-hyped power puncher, the much ballyhooed Kovalev.
But apparently, that won't cause the Kovey faithful to shed too many tears.
It appears that many of you have already jumped on the bandwagon of five-fight pro Beterbiev.
Is he your next "monster"?

Campillo got to Cloud before Hopkins did. Cloud looked dejected many times in that bout, was getting beaten up in multiple rounds, and hasn't been the same since. Hopkins was just dealing with Chico Guapo's leftovers.

If I recall correctly Cloud was a little behind vs Yusaf Mack until his power took over and he barely beat Glen Johnson...

SenorPipino wrote:Note that Cloud has deteriorated dramatically since he went in as an unbeaten power-punching champion and was easily pounded by Hopkins.

Next up, on Nov. 8, the masterful Hopkins goes in and spits out another over-hyped power puncher, the much ballyhooed Kovalev.
But apparently, that won't cause the Kovey faithful to shed too many tears.
It appears that many of you have already jumped on the bandwagon of five-fight pro Beterbiev.
Is he your next "monster"?

We already know that you hate all Russians, so why don't you come up with something new.

hulkmaniac wrote:If I recall correctly Cloud was a little behind vs Yusaf Mack until his power took over and he barely beat Glen Johnson...

Two judges generously had him ahead of Mack, but the other had him a round down like I did. The Johnson fight was extremely close and a 6-6/7-5 type of contest imo.

Then Chico Guapo had his way with Cloud and he's largely been a punching bag since. I thought he took three-four rounds from Hopkins but he couldn't even take one from Stevenson or Beterbiev.

crusader wrote:

hulkmaniac wrote:If I recall correctly Cloud was a little behind vs Yusaf Mack until his power took over and he barely beat Glen Johnson...

Two judges generously had him ahead of Mack, but the other had him a round down like I did. The Johnson fight was extremely close and a 6-6/7-5 type of contest imo.

Then Chico Guapo had his way with Cloud and he's largely been a punching bag since. I thought he took three-four rounds from Hopkins but he couldn't even take one from Stevenson or Beterbiev.

Oh yeah I almost forgot about the moment in the Hopkins fight when Cloud threw a punch that hit nothing but air and then he landed on the ropes himself.

crusader wrote:Campillo got to Cloud before Hopkins did. Cloud looked dejected many times in that bout, was getting beaten up in multiple rounds, and hasn't been the same since. Hopkins was just dealing with Chico Guapo's leftovers.

I don't see an "L" listed on Cloud's record next to the Campillo bout. So I don't know how he "got" to him.
I do remember Campillo crashing to the canvas a couple times early in the fight.

SenorPipino wrote:

crusader wrote:Campillo got to Cloud before Hopkins did. Cloud looked dejected many times in that bout, was getting beaten up in multiple rounds, and hasn't been the same since. Hopkins was just dealing with Chico Guapo's leftovers.

I don't see an "L" listed on Cloud's record next to the Campillo bout. So I don't know how he "got" to him.
I do remember Campillo crashing to the canvas a couple times early in the fight.

What does the result have to do with it? The judges got it wrong, as is regularly the case. Chico Guapo dealt Cloud a boxing lesson and busted him up in several rounds. Cloud looked despondent near the end and his mother fainted after the fight, probably so shocked that the judges somehow thought her son won the bout. No surprise that Cloud has looked terrible since then, although as I mentioned he managed to win rounds against Hopkins that he couldn't against Stevenson and Beterbiev.

As for the knockdowns, you're just remembering one round of a twelve round fight pip and the next eleven rounds went very differently. Do you remember the 1st round of Pascal-Hopkins? How about the 3rd? Remember when Bernard was chicken dancing in the 4th round of the rematch?

ikorolev wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:Note that Cloud has deteriorated dramatically since he went in as an unbeaten power-punching champion and was easily pounded by Hopkins.

Next up, on Nov. 8, the masterful Hopkins goes in and spits out another over-hyped power puncher, the much ballyhooed Kovalev.
But apparently, that won't cause the Kovey faithful to shed too many tears.
It appears that many of you have already jumped on the bandwagon of five-fight pro Beterbiev.
Is he your next "monster"?

We already know that you hate all Russians, so why don't you come up with something new.

I love Lomachenko. Does he count as a Russian? We better get Putin's opinion on that.
BTW, are there any Russian fighters that YOU aren't fond of?
I bet you were the only guy on the planet rooting for Ivan Drago in Rocky IV.

crusader wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:

crusader wrote:Campillo got to Cloud before Hopkins did. Cloud looked dejected many times in that bout, was getting beaten up in multiple rounds, and hasn't been the same since. Hopkins was just dealing with Chico Guapo's leftovers.

I don't see an "L" listed on Cloud's record next to the Campillo bout. So I don't know how he "got" to him.
I do remember Campillo crashing to the canvas a couple times early in the fight.

What does the result have to do with it? The judges got it wrong, as is regularly the case. Chico Guapo dealt Cloud a boxing lesson and busted him up in several rounds. Cloud looked despondent near the end and his mother fainted after the fight, probably so shocked that the judges somehow thought her son won the bout. No surprise that Cloud has looked terrible since then, although as I mentioned he managed to win rounds against Hopkins that he couldn't against Stevenson and Beterbiev.

As for the knockdowns, you're just remembering one round of the fight of a twelve round fight pip and the next eleven rounds went very differently. Do you remember the 1st round of Pascal-Hopkins? How about the 3rd? Remember when Bernard was chicken dancing in the 4th round of the rematch?

Well, that's your opinion, Crusader.
These professional judges are paid good money to get these things right, and they obviously disagreed with your view. They (two of them, anyway) scored it for Cloud. I didn't see him broken in any way by Campillo.
At don't forget, a 2 knockdown round, no matter which portion of the fight it occurs in, counts very heavily in the scoring.

The difference between that bout and Hopkins-Pascal I & II was that B-Hop was able to regroup and get a draw and a win against the Canadian. The great ones always fight their way out of adversity. Campillo (or Chico Guapo, if you prefer) was unable to pull off the win. I give him credit for displaying huevos and lasting the distance, however.

SenorPipino wrote:

crusader wrote:Campillo got to Cloud before Hopkins did. Cloud looked dejected many times in that bout, was getting beaten up in multiple rounds, and hasn't been the same since. Hopkins was just dealing with Chico Guapo's leftovers.

I don't see an "L" listed on Cloud's record next to the Campillo bout. So I don't know how he "got" to him.
I do remember Campillo crashing to the canvas a couple times early in the fight.

Campillo won a one-sided decision, just as he did vs Shumenov. The official decision is a bastardization of the truth, just as it was vs the fake "champion" Shumenov. Pointing out one bad round for Campillo doesn't mean Cloud won the fight. He didn't even come close, anywhere but in the corrupt mind of the well-paid judges. Please show us your "scorecard" to let us know how you think Cloud won. Because he didn't.

Judges get it wrong all the time regardless of what they're paid to do. Appealing to the judges' authority is nonsensical and I could just as easily point you to all the media scores that had Campillo ahead even though he was down twice, with one of those KDs being highly questionable. Knockdowns are also only one factor in scoring and being down by 3 after 1 rounds leaves a fighter with plenty of time to erase a deficit.

What is more relevant than the official result is what occurred during the bout, and after getting dropped Campillo fought his way back and was beating Cloud in virtually every respect. By the eleventh round he was beating Cloud up to the point where he was laughing and showboating, possibly because he was having fun being in total control, which most thought he was. Of course the decision unfairly went to Cloud, but the point isn't about numbers on a piece of paper, and that's typically not what causes a fighter to become 'shot' or to 'have the fight taken out of them' or any similar line. If we're going to make assertions about which fight led to Cloud's downfall, the boxing lesson Campillo gave him can just as easily be selected as the decisive occurrence as the Hopkins' match can.

As for the reference to Hopkins-Pascal, that was simply to point out that one round, obviously selectively remembered to fit your argument, doesn't always tell the story of a fight. If it did, Hopkins would've lost to Pascal based on the rounds I mentioned; he was down or hurt, or both, and looking like the relatively old man he is.

SenorPipino wrote:

ikorolev wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:Note that Cloud has deteriorated dramatically since he went in as an unbeaten power-punching champion and was easily pounded by Hopkins.

Next up, on Nov. 8, the masterful Hopkins goes in and spits out another over-hyped power puncher, the much ballyhooed Kovalev.
But apparently, that won't cause the Kovey faithful to shed too many tears.
It appears that many of you have already jumped on the bandwagon of five-fight pro Beterbiev.
Is he your next "monster"?

We already know that you hate all Russians, so why don't you come up with something new.

I love Lomachenko. Does he count as a Russian? We better get Putin's opinion on that.
]
BTW, are there any Russian fighters that YOU aren't fond of?
I bet you were the only guy on the planet rooting for Ivan Drago in Rocky IV.

Lomachenko is from Ukraine, so with current situation, it is hard to call him Russian. Every country gets rulers they deserve: Russia got Putin, Ukraine got their own bastards, and of course your country has a perfect leader who doesn't think that his political and other interests are the most important thing and that he can lie to people.

Damn u guys worry too much about race......who cares who is from where.....boxing is boxing. If they are entertaining cheer for them. I'm an american......my favorite active fighter is Adamek.....dude is a hard worker, fun to watch and seems like a gentleman. Ur taking the fun out of the sport by not liking a fighter cuz he's Russian or American...etc.

wow, just wow. cloud has his limitations but he is a physically strong and durable fighter who had good fights with Champions. it was not unlikely that beterbiev beats him but he absolutely annihilated him after just 5 pro fights. I realize that beterbiev was a top Amateur with a Long career so it was clear his build up would be shorter but still the pro game is different and 5 pro fights is nothing.

But did beterbiev help his career by that win in his career that early? who will want to fight against him now? other fighters have Trouble finding good opponents too(golovkin, kovalev) but at least they already have a belt so it is more lucrative to get destroyed by them.

IMO it would have been more intelligent to fight a guy like that later, preferably in an eliminator. now it won't be easy to get credible opponents to fight him because a destruction won't help their careers.