BoxRec

Bring Charlie Zelenoff over...... if Joshua can spark Zelenoff out while he sits on his arse, we have our answer

danamba7 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:aj is an overrated body builder. wilder kos him within 9

At least AJ throws proper shots and has a good punch variety. I know there's a lot more to it than that but apart from his jab/right hand, Wilders punches can be embarrassing. It's much more enjoyable watching AJ go to work (albeit against average opposition). I'm looking forward to see what AJ can do against better opposition who open up more and leave openings for Joshua to exploit.

I also think that AJ is a better boxer but wilder has improved. his right still is relatively wide but his jab is now really short and snappy. he also seems to be a Little faster and more athletic than AJ but I still think AJ is a better boxer.

Wilder certainly has more power though, but AJ is not a bad Puncher either although probably not an elite Puncher like wilder.

fergusg wrote:In terms of your questions, who else (apart from Wladimir) has done something remotely comparable to Deontay’s efforts on Saturday, well Tyson Fury did when he beat Dereck Chisora in similar fashion and I’m convinced that Alexander Povetkin and David Haye have both dominated world-rated contenders.

Thanks for getting to the question, but nothing that Chisora has done puts him in the category of Stiverne, who while also quite slow and chubby like Chisroa, he can actually punch very hard while Chisora is a sluggish plodder without real power. And who did Haye dominate in the HW division who was actually a legitimate contender? 38yo Ruiz? Or perhaps the 37yo Barrett who had already been stopped a few times the year before? He squeeked by Valuev which was a good win, but Wilder moved and actually threw punches for 12 rounds while dominating one of the best HW in the world. And Haye isn't an active fighter right now.

Clearly Wilder is beatable, as is everybody else in the division, but what he accomplished against Stiverne was quite unusual in the current HW division. Iw ould say that clearly Povetkin is the most accomplished HW outside of Wlad and is probably the only guy in the division besides Wlad who clearly has a better resume than Wilder. Yes, Wilders resume wasn't much prior to last Staurday, but just look over the other guys in the top 10. They may be talented, but they certainly aren't trying very hard to prove it, and no one else amongst them has dominated a fellow contender in the manner that Wilder did last weekend.

Wilder might have the edge on a better team around him.

Joshua has the edge on talent.

I think Joshua is better

I am way too much of a chickenshit to vote here.

Joshua is more fluid, but Wilder likely hits even harder and is also a good athlete.

Thanks for getting to the question, but nothing that Chisora has done puts him in the category of Stiverne, who while also quite slow and chubby like Chisroa, he can actually punch very hard while Chisora is a sluggish plodder without real power.

Chisora isn't a big puncher but he has sufficient pop to breakdown decent opponents. He also has a higher and more consistent workrate than Stiverne, puts his punches together better, is less prone to lackluster showings, and to me has shown against good opposition that he is at least on Stiverne's level. I think his weaker inclination toward lackluster showings in particular is a strong reason why he hasn't had mediocre results at a fairly low level, such as Stiverne's TKO loss to a journeyman, draw with a journeyman, and a 5-3 x2 decision over--you guessed it--a journeyman.

Resume wise Stiverne has beaten quite poor opposition other than his wins over an unremarkable 40 year old in Ray Austin and Arreola, and he was losing into the tenth round against Austin while also being down when he stopped Arreola in the rematch. Chisora has much more depth to his resume with his clear betterment of then top contender Helenius, his KO of arguably Wilder's second best opponent in Scott, a drubbing of Kevin Johnson in which I believe he became the first person to drop him, and his routine stoppages of Gerber and Pala, who in my view were better than everyone Stiverne has beaten other than Austin and Arreola. Chisora also fought well against Klitschko and arguably deserved up to four rounds in my opinion, which to me is more impressive than blowing out journeymen and halting Ray Austin after being thoroughly outboxed by him for the better part of 9 rounds.

I don't think Wilder was clearly more impressive against Stiverne than Fury was in dominating Chisora even more so, and I've been taken back by how much credit Wilder is getting for his win. Stiverne essentially went from being a sizable underdog against Arreola a few bouts earlier due to his weak resume and lackluster showings to someone who, as a result of beating him, Wilder is being commonly hailed the future of the division or at least a level above any non-Klitschko foe. He showed that he has some skill to complement his power but I'd like to see him beat more than one top ten contender, particularly someone who wasn't befuddled a few bouts earlier by the height and limited skills of Ray Austin, before I go that far.

And who did Haye dominate in the HW division who was actually a legitimate contender? 38yo Ruiz? Or perhaps the 37yo Barrett who had already been stopped a few times the year before? He squeeked by Valuev which was a good win, but Wilder moved and actually threw punches for 12 rounds while dominating one of the best HW in the world. And Haye isn't an active fighter right now.

I understand your point but I think that Haye is clearly much better than Stiverne--faster hands and feet, at least as good a puncher, more elusive, and far less inclined to plod into shots and not punch like Stiverne did for long periods against Austin and Wilder. I also believe that Valuev would've beaten Stiverne, who seemed to struggle significantly with the height of the latter pair.

gertpacu wrote:People are talking like Wilder is like Michael Grant or something. Wilder is the better HW now. Maybe after AJ gets another 10-15 fights we will say otherwise. If they were to fight right now Wilder would win by UD or KO.

If a 29-year-old Wilder fought a 25-year-old Joshua, Wilder may win. But if a 25-year-old Wilder fought a 29-year-old Joshua, Wilder would get completely wrecked. Neither of those apples-to-oranges comparisons have any relevance to the topic of who will have the greater prime.

Joshua for me. You could make a comparison Lewis(Joshua) and Bowe(Wilder). Wilder starts faster and gives few scares for Anthony but gets grinded down and stopped about 4 rounds. To me Joshua is well schooled and is a complete package and Wilder is wild interesting and flashy but lacks mechanics.
Pluss Joshua has very good balance and with it combination punching. Reminds me of Tyson, a little.

I'd have to say Joshua.

Naturally the Europeans, especially the Brits, put their Euros on Joshua in a showdown with Wilder.
But a scant few years ago, they were also fantasizing about the unlimited future of another Olympic medalist, Audley Harrison.
We know how that worked out.
I'll take Wilder to have a cakewalk performance against Joshua, just as he'll have against Fury.
The only good Brit heavy was Lewis, but that was probably because of the Canadian upbringing.

Naturally the Europeans, especially the Brits, put their Euros on Joshua in a showdown with Wilder.
But a scant few years ago, they were also fantasizing about the unlimited future of another Olympic medalist, Audley Harrison.
We know how that worked out.
I'll take Wilder to have a cakewalk performance against Joshua, just as he'll have against Fury.
The only good Brit heavy was Lewis, but that was probably because of the Canadian upbringing.

Wilder because he fights like a pro, while Joshua still fights more like a amateur to me. Also, Anthony is stiff and that's perfect for Wilder.

Anthony Joshua. He is quicker and is the much better finisher when he has his opponent in queer street. Wilder tends to get a bit more excited and doesn't quite close the deal, while Big Josh is a lot more clinical in terms of finishing.

SenorPipino wrote:Naturally the Europeans, especially the Brits, put their Euros on Joshua in a showdown with Wilder.
But a scant few years ago, they were also fantasizing about the unlimited future of another Olympic medalist, Audley Harrison.
We know how that worked out.
I'll take Wilder to have a cakewalk performance against Joshua, just as he'll have against Fury.
The only good Brit heavy was Lewis, but that was probably because of the Canadian upbringing.

So you're saying British boxing is of a poor standard??

SenorPipino wrote:Naturally the Europeans, especially the Brits, put their Euros on Joshua in a showdown with Wilder.
But a scant few years ago, they were also fantasizing about the unlimited future of another Olympic medalist, Audley Harrison.
We know how that worked out.
I'll take Wilder to have a cakewalk performance against Joshua, just as he'll have against Fury.
The only good Brit heavy was Lewis, but that was probably because of the Canadian upbringing.

So your logic is Wilder is better than Joshua because Joshua is British, and because Joshua is British, he must be assessed in line with Audley Harrison.

Cool insight there bro.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

SenorPipino wrote:Naturally the Europeans, especially the Brits, put their Euros on Joshua in a showdown with Wilder.
But a scant few years ago, they were also fantasizing about the unlimited future of another Olympic medalist, Audley Harrison.
We know how that worked out.
I'll take Wilder to have a cakewalk performance against Joshua, just as he'll have against Fury.
The only good Brit heavy was Lewis, but that was probably because of the Canadian upbringing.

So your logic is Wilder is better than Joshua because Joshua is British, and because Joshua is British, he must be assessed in line with Audley Harrison.

Cool insight there bro.

I was just commenting on how the Brits stunningly seem to fancy Joshua by a big margin. They were also highly enamored of Harrison even though in his early pro stages he only blew away tomato can opposition, just like Joshua.
It appears good-old flag waving chauvinism may color their support. You think?