BoxRec

Leather Daddy wrote:American sports, and American culture in general has *always* promoted black athletes as being superior, even though this is not at all true. If you look at Americas national sport; the NFL, it is dominated by blacks. This is also true in American boxing, where the vast majority of great American boxers are black. Almost all of the great American boxers are black (Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Saddler, Leonard etc.)

Of course, anyone who follows boxing in the past 15 years has seen thousands of examples of Eastern Euros knocking out overhyped black Americans and knows that in boxing blacks certainly are not superior. There are also examples of highly successful Asian and Latino fighters, so race seems to play very little role in determining ability in boxing.

In fact, if Bernard was white he probably would be even less well known than he is. American Sports media has essentially censored the entire careers of Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, and Joe Calzaghe some of the best 3 boxers in recent times. The Klitschkos are among the most successful heavyweight champions of alltime and quite frankly its bizarre that American media has chosen to censor their accomplishments.

The reason American sports media censors Wlad Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Calzaghe, and others is because in USA athletes are generally presented as being black, so showing these remarkable white athletes would go against common thinking. Some people might say the Klitschkos are boring, but so is Mayweather and Hopkins in fact they are even worse yet American media still hypes both of them.

Even white Americans like Kelly Pavlik were not helped out by promoters or TV networks in USA. Black prospects are typically signed by the best promotional companies and given early career exposure on TV. Kelly Pavlik was essentially ignored by HBO and when he did finally get a big fight - VS Edison Miranda - he was expected to lose. Kelly surprised everyone and won that fight which moved him on to Taylor. But its important to remember he was first ignored by HBO and initially matched to lose. Compare that to Adrien Broner who was given all sorts of easy fights on Showtime and built up on the network.

Bottom line is 2 Points

1) American sports culture typically celebrates only black athletes and has this false idea that blacks are superior.

2) The harsh reality is that blacks are not superior, and thats why with each passing year we're seeing less and less black American champions in boxing. More Euros and Asians are winning titles every year. There will soon be a day when there are no American champions in boxing. Boxing is becoming way more European and Asian centric.

Damn man, you continue to confirm that there is a good percentage of the British population that's just as ignorant and misinformed as many Americans.

The apple doesn't fall from the tree.

Leather Daddy wrote:American sports, and American culture in general has *always* promoted black athletes as being superior, even though this is not at all true. If you look at Americas national sport; the NFL, it is dominated by blacks. This is also true in American boxing, where the vast majority of great American boxers are black. Almost all of the great American boxers are black (Tyson, Ali, Frazier, Saddler, Leonard etc.)

Of course, anyone who follows boxing in the past 15 years has seen thousands of examples of Eastern Euros knocking out overhyped black Americans and knows that in boxing blacks certainly are not superior. There are also examples of highly successful Asian and Latino fighters, so race seems to play very little role in determining ability in boxing.

In fact, if Bernard was white he probably would be even less well known than he is. American Sports media has essentially censored the entire careers of Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, and Joe Calzaghe some of the best 3 boxers in recent times. The Klitschkos are among the most successful heavyweight champions of alltime and quite frankly its bizarre that American media has chosen to censor their accomplishments.

The reason American sports media censors Wlad Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko, Joe Calzaghe, and others is because in USA athletes are generally presented as being black, so showing these remarkable white athletes would go against common thinking. Some people might say the Klitschkos are boring, but so is Mayweather and Hopkins in fact they are even worse yet American media still hypes both of them.

Even white Americans like Kelly Pavlik were not helped out by promoters or TV networks in USA. Black prospects are typically signed by the best promotional companies and given early career exposure on TV. Kelly Pavlik was essentially ignored by HBO and when he did finally get a big fight - VS Edison Miranda - he was expected to lose. Kelly surprised everyone and won that fight which moved him on to Taylor. But its important to remember he was first ignored by HBO and initially matched to lose. Compare that to Adrien Broner who was given all sorts of easy fights on Showtime and built up on the network.

Bottom line is 2 Points

1) American sports culture typically celebrates only black athletes and has this false idea that blacks are superior.

2) The harsh reality is that blacks are not superior, and thats why with each passing year we're seeing less and less American champions in boxing. More Euros and Asians are winning titles every year. There will soon be a day when there are no American champions. Boxing is becoming way more Euro and Asian centric.

Point 1) is way off the mark! Michael Phelps and numerous white quarterbacks are huge over here. I will concede the point that Americans (I am one) are a chauvinistic culture. The Klitschkos and Calzaghe aren't big here because they're not American, not because they're white.

The Gerry Cooney hype leading up to the Holmes fight was off the charts! Cooney was on the cover of Time Magazine with Rocky. If America didn't love white athletes, the Rocky movies wouldn't have been huge, and they were huge. Back to Cooney; if he had won that fight, he would have been crowned royalty.

So your first point, with all due respect, is utter nonsense. Much of your second point is true though. I don't think any color is superior, and boxing is more Euro and Asian due to the breaking down of the wall and other cultural reasons. There will always be some American champion. Ward beat Froch quite easily. Calazaghe did beat hopkins but it was hardly a walk in the park. Who has beaten Terrance Crawford? Pavlik wasn't big because he was a flash in the pan that liked the bottle. Hopkins owned him.

Hopkins is a lame POS the guy really feels he's a victim.

It's funny tho cuz alotta other minority races can now say that "African Americans" receive favortism aswell.

Who cares I just hope Kovalev puts this guy to sleep.

Leather Daddy wrote:American sports, and American culture in general has *always* promoted black athletes as being superior[/b], even though this is not at all true.

ALWAYS?

For most of American history blacks were openly called monkeys and other less flattering things. For most of American sports history, blacks weren't allowed to play in the top professional leagues. So stop being a dickhead trying to claim that America is lauding and pushing black supremacy ... that has never been the case.

I think we can all agree on one thing: White American fighters are Terrible.

As a kid, I confess I thought black fighters were Superior because the Alis, Foremans and Fraziers were certainly beating the Quarrys, Chuvalos, and Bugners.

But with the emergence of all these great European fighters today, that is obviously not the case. Big black Americans are going into football and basketball. The smaller ones, UFC or something else.


Bottom Line: It is Cultural.

Hopkins is absolutely right. Famous black athletes in the USA are almost unheard of. None get endorsements, I never see any in commercials, and most are grossly underpaid. Also, with boxing being the main stream sport that it is, I can't stand seeing the unequal representation of white fighters being shown more than black. The 1950's suck! Hopefully by 2014 we have this all sorted out.

Leather Daddy wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:I think we can all agree on one thing: White American fighters are Terrible.

As a kid, I confess I thought black fighters were Superior because the Alis, Foremans and Fraziers were certainly beating the Quarrys, Chuvalos, and Bugners.

But with the emergence of all these great European fighters today, that is obviously not the case. Big black Americans are going into football and basketball. The smaller ones, UFC or something else.


Bottom Line: It is Cultural.

Yes, I will agree with you. White American boxers are terrible.

USA has a population of more than 175 million white people, and what's truly pathetic is countries as small as Ireland (population of 3 million) produces far better white boxing talent (ie Tyson Fury, John Joe Nevin, Bernard Dunn are recent Iris boxers probably better than any white American boxers in the last 30 years).

Many White boxers from Europe are champions and easily beat black American boxers.

So the question is; if White Europeans are so great at boxing why do White Americans suck so much?

Part of it is Cultural like you said.

But part of it is also psychological. Whites in USA are exposed to propaganda which makes them believe blacks are more athletic. Blacks have been dominating sports in USA for decades so Whites within the USA accept that and think thats how things are supposed to be. Therefore white American athletes lack confidence and tend to not perform well.

Eastern Europeans come over with confidence and thats why they're doing so well...

White people in USA cheer for their favourite black athletes in the NFL and in boxing (as you yourself admit all the great American boxers are black) and this creates a culture of white American fans worshipping black athletes.

White Americans have got to be the most brainwashed and misguided people on Earth.

It's OK though. .. Euros n Asians are dominating boxing and Americans will start to just censor boxing completely. White Americans can continue watching the NFL and their favourite black heroes.

Sorry to burst your bubble but latin Americans run this sport along with African Americans.

Damn Leather Daddy, you are one delusional motherfucker. Your entire bullshit mentality is ripped straight from Euro-White Supremacist Garbage. (Such bullshit is a proper noun)

It's easy to deduce you are either one of Freedom's personalities, or you are a friend from his racist forum someone mentioned a while ago.

It's sad to think that you spend time going to group events dedicated to feeling pride in a highly socially created concept like race ... and then, the whole gist of it is that "people who look and think like me are the best in the world". Seriously guys, cut it out.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:It's sad to think that you spend time going to group events dedicated to feeling pride in a highly socially created concept like race ...

What "group events" are you referring to? I belong to no such group. I don't think such groups even exist, except in Hollywood movies.

You are delusional and horribly brainwashed - you are unable to separate fiction from reality. I feel sorry for self-loathing people like yourself, you truly are the most pathetic individuals in the world.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:and then, the whole gist of it is that "people who look and think like me are the best in the world".

That's essentially what Hopkins believes, listen to what he says in the second half of this interview. Hopkins has lots of black pride - he certainly believes in the socially created concept of race!

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/11 ... ve-my-talk

I'm from Philly but I'm tired of Bernard and hope he loses.

He's trying to get some mainstream attention for the fight... that's all it was.

I'm stuck trying to figure out which ethnicity that Tunney isn't prejudiced against.

ikorolev wrote:... or barely known to public Floyd Mayweather who was extremely surprised when a slightly black female lesbian wheel chair bound tourettes barber barberess in England slash GB slash UK Commonwealth didn't know who he was.

Put a fornicating dress on with this race card shit .............

It's not like Hopkins is knocking them down one by one. His style in itself is boring. Box a little and hold even more..Who want's to see that sh*t. It's not captivating or exciting at all. Besides that George Foreman and Archie Moore were the oldest champions at one time then Hopkins breaks the record in the Steroid or PED era. What's up with that...

They called Jerry West "Mr Clutch" Hopkins should be called "Mr Clinch"...

MachoTime wrote:It's not like Hopkins is knocking them down one by one. His style in itself is boring. Box a little and hold even more..Who want's to see that sh*t. It's not captivating or exciting at all. Besides that George Foreman and Archie Moore were the oldest champions at one time then Hopkins breaks the record in the Steroid or PED era. What's up with that...

They called Jerry West "Mr Clutch" Hopkins should be called "Mr Clinch"...

Nah, Klitchko and Ward are main candidates for the "Mr Clinch" title. Hopkins is a distant third.

JCS wrote:He's trying to get some mainstream attention for the fight... that's all it was.

I'm stuck trying to figure out which ethnicity that Tunney isn't prejudiced against.

Mainstream attention for what? It's not a PPV.

Freedom2013 wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:It's sad to think that you spend time going to group events dedicated to feeling pride in a highly socially created concept like race ...

What "group events" are you referring to? I belong to no such group. I don't think such groups even exist, except in Hollywood movies.

You are delusional and horribly brainwashed - you are unable to separate fiction from reality. I feel sorry for self-loathing people like yourself, you truly are the most pathetic individuals in the world.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:and then, the whole gist of it is that "people who look and think like me are the best in the world".

That's essentially what Hopkins believes, listen to what he says in the second half of this interview. Hopkins has lots of black pride - he certainly believes in the socially created concept of race!

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/11 ... ve-my-talk

1. White Supremacist groups are growing all over the world, or should I say, mostly in America and Europe.

2. So what if Hopkins believes that! Does that means you have to be ignorant also in response? Why? Because there will be an army led by American Blacks coming to take over your home?

Unlike European boxing, American boxing has always been populated by those trying to escape poverty or economic disadvantage. When there were lots of poor Irish & Italian immigrants there were lots of fighters from those ethnicities. If you know anything about US history, you would know that in early to mid-20th century businesses used to have signs in their windows "Irish Need Not Apply" or "Italians Need Not Apply" Now in the 21st century, there are MANY more poor blacks and Latinos than there are poor Irish, Italians, etc.

wHAT DO THESE TWO NATIONALITIES HAVE IN COMMON , They don't sit bitching and whining all the time , they rolled there sleeves up , got stuck in and became known has hard workers ,, Others , just whine , bitch , take govt handouts , and moan about how hard done to they are ,and blame the white man .

Seems to me its Ok for Bernard Hopkins to come out of jail turn his life around and become a multi millionaire , but if a white man does it ,, then he's a bad guy and a racist .

Yes, I will agree with you. White American boxers are terrible.

USA has a population of more than 175 million white people, and what's truly pathetic is countries as small as Ireland (population of 3 million) produces far better white boxing talent (ie Tyson Fury, John Joe Nevin, Bernard Dunn are recent Iris boxers probably better than any white American boxers in the last 30 years).

Many White boxers from Europe are champions and easily beat black American boxers.

So the question is; if White Europeans are so great at boxing why do White Americans suck so much?

Part of it is Cultural like you said.

But part of it is also psychological. Whites in USA are exposed to propaganda which makes them believe blacks are more athletic. Blacks have been dominating sports in USA for decades so Whites within the USA accept that and think thats how things are supposed to be. Therefore white American athletes lack confidence and tend to not perform well.

Eastern Europeans come over with confidence and thats why they're doing so well...

White people in USA cheer for their favourite black athletes in the NFL and in boxing (as you yourself admit all the great American boxers are black) and this creates a culture of white American fans worshipping black athletes.

White Americans have got to be the most brainwashed and misguided people on Earth.

It's OK though. .. Euros n Asians are dominating boxing and Americans will start to just censor boxing completely. White Americans can continue watching the NFL and their favourite black heroes.[/quote] >>>Leather Daddy


1) If you think the American Sports media was obsessed with Andre Berto that tells me you have never stepped foot in the USA. American Sports fans are obsessed with the NFL, NBA, and NASCAR. Almost no one here has even heard of Andre Berto or Adrien Bronner.

2) You are totally obsessed with Color to put it politely. As a kid, I cheered black and white athletes alike without even thinking about color. Historically, whites have cheered Jackie Robinson and blacks have cheered Babe Ruth.

3) You make it sound as though the white European is always beating the black or brown fighter. That is far from the truth.

4) White Americans aren't good fighters because they don't have to be. Historically, poor people have gone into boxing. Middle class whites may take Tae Kwon do or hit a punching bag.

tiny_acres wrote:This is one topic I always try to stay away from.I do not understand racism in sport.
I have never judged an athlete on skin color.I judge them on talent.I cheer for them all.

This is the Best Post in Here. Concise and to the point.

The reason white americans suck at boxing is because in general, white people don't give a shit about boxing. If you don't have an interest in the sport, why would you take it up as some sort of actual career. There are much easier ways to make money. White people like soccer, baseball, hockey, football ect. The best players in those sports are often white.

diddy wrote:

JCS wrote:He's trying to get some mainstream attention for the fight... that's all it was.

I'm stuck trying to figure out which ethnicity that Tunney isn't prejudiced against.

Mainstream attention for what? It's not a PPV.

To sell tickets... To stroke his own ego.... etc.?

To "Leather Daddy,"


19/25 top P4P fighters are NOT white.

8/25 are American.

The 2nd place countries are Mexico and Argentina tied for 2 each.

The Wall came down almost 30 years ago.

Either the ratings are "bigoted," or your theory is 100% WRONG.

Which is it?

[b]MachoTime[/b] wrote:It's not like Hopkins is knocking them down one by one. His style in itself is boring. Box a little and hold even more..Who want's to see that sh*t. It's not captivating or exciting at all. Besides that George Foreman and Archie Moore were the oldest champions at one time then Hopkins breaks the record in the Steroid or PED era. What's up with that...

They called Jerry West "Mr Clutch" Hopkins should be called "Mr Clinch"...

Are you Puerto Rican?

Are you insinuating that Hopkins is on Roids/PEDS?

coneye wrote:wHAT DO THESE TWO NATIONALITIES HAVE IN COMMON , They don't sit bitching and whining all the time , they rolled there sleeves up , got stuck in and became known has hard workers ,, Others , just whine , bitch , take govt handouts , and moan about how hard done to they are ,and blame the white man.

I think the history of what you're talking about is a little deeper than that. People who believe the whole "American Dream" lie love to bring up the Irish and an example of dedication in spite of bias. However, Irish were not in the same position as blacks, not even close, therefore, they aren't directly comparable.

When the Irish started to become policemen, it was regarded as a horrible job. However, they were ALLOWED to have that job. So, there was still an advantage of being white. Although the Irish were discriminated against, they had to be afforded some level of opportunity in order to satisfy the concept of a white race which was important in keeping the poor divided.

i won't address the handout ignorance. Blaming the poor for being poor is ridiculous and has been disproven repeatedly by statistics and observations. Anytime I hear someone speak like that, I know for a fact they have no idea the conditions people are growing up in. Or course hard work is all you need when you're being raised by a 15 year old mother and 29 year old grandmother, both addicted to drugs.

However, the foolish belief in your merit, and the lack of such merit in others, helps you cope with the devastating inequality that exists. It's so sad that the only person you can blame is the victim. That's such a coward's route as you prefer to pick on those in the worst situations. Why don't you grow a pair and demand those billionaires at least pay their fair percentage of tax ... because it's much easier to tell your kids poor black kids are responsible for their own misery. Of course that's the perfect mentality for a child going to school so that he/she can become RICH one day ... joy, RICH!!!!!!!!!!

Astonishing amount of toxic bullshit in this thread