BoxRec

energie wrote:

Coldko wrote:It shows larry holmes is just another niger

thats just plain wrong to say dude / i hope you get banned

Click on the red ! I know I did.

cold187 wrote:he also beat boxers who were "virtually undefeated"

tony Thompson - lost very very early on. was 31-1 when foight wlad
David haye (at heavyweight)
chambers lost 1 to povetkin
byrd had only lost once too
generally boxers with very good records

HELLO BEING UNDEFEATED DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER DEFINE A FIGHTERS CAREER IN NEARLY EVERY CASE A UNDEFEATED FIGHTER HASN'T BEEN TESTED BY THE CREAM OF THE CROP YET,
THAT BEING THE SOLE REASON THEY ARE STILL UNDEFEATED SO HAVING THE O IN THE LOST DEPARTMENT DOESN'T MEAN MUCH IF YOU'V BEEN ROLLED IN COTTON WOOL.
HOW MANY RETIRED UNDEFEATED FIGHTER'S YOU KNOW.

ClivePatrickLyons wrote:

cold187 wrote:he also beat boxers who were "virtually undefeated"

tony Thompson - lost very very early on. was 31-1 when foight wlad
David haye (at heavyweight)
chambers lost 1 to povetkin
byrd had only lost once too
generally boxers with very good records

HELLO BEING UNDEFEATED DOES NOT AND WILL NEVER DEFINE A FIGHTERS CAREER IN NEARLY EVERY CASE A UNDEFEATED FIGHTER HASN'T BEEN TESTED BY THE CREAM OF THE CROP YET,
THAT BEING THE SOLE REASON THEY ARE STILL UNDEFEATED SO HAVING THE O IN THE LOST DEPARTMENT DOESN'T MEAN MUCH IF YOU'V BEEN ROLLED IN COTTON WOOL.
HOW MANY RETIRED UNDEFEATED FIGHTER'S YOU KNOW.

i agree, but u know what its like.

boxer a beats boxer b, but boxer be was crap anyway as he lost to boxer c in early in his career

Tony1244 wrote: He [Ali] beat Cooper easily twice...

I didn't bother to read any more after that.

x2x wrote:

Tony1244 wrote: He [Ali] beat Cooper easily twice...

I just read that far.

Reading comprehension increases with practice. Try to increase it from 5 to 8 words next time.

Ali did beat Cooper easily twice. I have the fights. Just like Tunney beat Dempsey easily twice. One knockdown doesn't change that.

cold187 wrote:these old ass boxers should try to stay relevant by opening their mouth.
atlas - wilder will ko stiverne in 2 rounds

if flipping lateef kayode fought charr and Holmes was commentator he'd say "these 2 can given wladimir a tough time"

given the guy credit. beaten more undefeated HW than any other boxer,

Beating so many undefeated guys just shows how pampered and protected today's fighters are; an 0 means nothing.

energie wrote:

Coldko wrote:It shows larry holmes is just another niger

thats just plain wrong to say dude / i hope you get banned

Actually Larry Holmes said this about Ken Norton:

"I dislike him because he forget he's a n igger just like I'm a n igger. I don't like the dude." That's heavyweight contender Larry Holmes on how he feels about Ken Norton"

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=T0I ... AJ&pg=PA50

davie wrote:I can't remember how many times people on his forum told us that, being a fully trained pro boxer, gives you a special insight into the fight game that those of us who dont regularly get punched in the head, couldn't possibly understand.

Holmes is usually sensible guy, but this time he apparently decides to use his emotions rather than brain. This cannot be helped by getting punched in the head BTW I think that being a boxer really makes to understand a lot of things naturally, so it is some kind of insight.

dempseyfire wrote:Beating so many undefeated guys just shows how pampered and protected today's fighters are; an 0 means nothing.

Was just about to say it. Wlad is dominant champion and he fought the best (of todays HW), but comparing "0's" with different era makes no sense.

Holmes has a long history of being harsh on current champions. I liked the man as a fighter but his opinions are pretty hard to agree with most of the time.

fergusg wrote:Here’s a list of the world title fights that Larry Holmes emerged victorious:
• Carl Williams
• James Smith
• Scott Frank
• Tim Witherspoon
• Lucien Rodriguez
• Gerry Cooney
• Renaldo Snipes
• Leon Spinks
• Trevor Berbick
• Muhammad Ali
• Scott LeDoux
• Lorenzo Zanon
• Earnie Shavers
• Mike Weaver
• Ossie Ocasio
• Alfredo Evangelista
• Ken Norton

His victories over Tim Witherspoon & Ken Norton were impressive, but unfortunately for him, he fought in an era where the quality of opposition he faced was merely mediocre.

In a similar way to what Golovkin is doing right now, at least he can lay claim to being the dominant and undisputed long-term champion, even though there was a distinct lack of big names available for him to fight.

If you compare the title challengers to what Wladimir faced, are the two eras that much different (in calibre of opposition)?

Here’s a list of the men that Klitschko successfully defeated in 24 of his world heavyweight championship fights:
• Kubrat Pulev
• Alex Leapai
• Alexander Povetkin
• Francesco Pianeta
• Mariusz Wach
• Tony Thompson
• Jean Marc Mormeck
• David Haye
• Samuel Peter
• Eddie Chambers
• Ruslan Chagaev
• Hasim Rahman
• Sultan Ibragimov
• Lamon Brewster
• Ray Austin
• Calvin Brock
• Chris Byrd
• Jameel McCline
• Ray Mercer
• Frans Botha
• Charles Shufford
• Derrick Jefferson

I don't see much difference no. I grew up watching the latter part of Holmes' reign and as much as I liked him, his opposition was hardly what I'd call "exceptional." Wladimir Klitschko also reigns in a weak period, but I don't see it as being inferior to that which Holmes fought in, or certainly not by much.. Chris Byrd is likely as good as anyone Holmes ever defeated. Sure I'd pick Norton and Ali to best Byrd in their primes, but prime isn't what they were when they fought Holmes. Sam Peter who reguarly gets sh-t for being an overweight slob would fit fight in with the Witherspoon's, Broad's and Tubbs's of that era. David Haye was unproven at heavyweight, but was he any worse than Evangelista, Frank, Rodriguez or Ledoux? Alexander Povetkin was likely comparable to Cooney and Tony Thompson looked better at 40 than Leroy Jones did at 30. Klitschko also wasn't facing 10,12, 14 and 16 fight novices. In fact when we compare their lists of undefeated opponents Klitschko has a lot more of the 26-0 variety as opposed to the 14-0 brand. And then there's always the argument about Klit looking unimpressive, holding too much, etc, etc.. Holmes wasn't terribly exciting to watch unless he was in the ring with an opponent like Mike Weaver who forced the action. And Larry pulled plenty of crap himself like thumbing opponents in the eye, holding, etc..Lastly, Holmes at about the age of 33 began getting selective about who he took his chances on and even relinquished a belt rather than to face a mandatory. Klit is almost 40 and still fighting the best available men around.

Tony1244 wrote:

x2x wrote:

Tony1244 wrote: He [Ali] beat Cooper easily twice...

I just read that far.

Reading comprehension increases with practice. Try to increase it from 5 to 8 words next time.

Ali did beat Cooper easily twice. I have the fights. Just like Tunney beat Dempsey easily twice. One knockdown doesn't change that.

Bull. And why haven't the record books been fixed to show that the first fight was won by Cooper? It is a real shame that it wasn't done while he was still living.

Amazingly the media has been censoring and altering all available tapes of the first fight. I watched it on ESPN Classic and what they did was splice the knockdown of Clay by Cooper on to the next round, and they made no mention whatsoever of anything untoward happening between rounds! Deliberate and malicious fakery, just like most everything else on tv. I don't know if it is even possible to find a complete raw uncensored film of that fight now.

Bull. And why haven't the record books been fixed to show that the first fight was won by Cooper? It is a real shame that it wasn't done while he was still living.

Amazingly the media has been censoring and altering all available tapes of the first fight. I watched it on ESPN Classic and what they did was splice the knockdown of Clay by Cooper on to the next round, and they made no mention whatsoever of anything untoward happening between rounds! Deliberate and malicious fakery, just like most everything else on tv. I don't know if it is even possible to find a complete raw uncensored film of that fight now.[/quote]


Have you been smoking banana peels? It's one thing to cheerlead your fighter, or your color, or whatever you're doing, but "Won by Cooper," is an hallucination of immense proportions.

Cooper did score a solid knockdown with a great left hook but Ali was up at the count of 4. I watched it many times. 10-8 round for Cooper as we would score it today. Only round Cooper won out of the 11 that the men fought.

Ali wasn't that badly stunned as you could tell in the corner. Dundee asked Ali to stand up and sit back down again, and his fighter did that with ease. The cut glove may have given him an extra minute.

To say Cooper could have won in the 5th round without the extra time is a valid opinion, but to say Cooper won is patently ridiculous.

The boxing rules make no provision for extra time between rounds for a hurt fighter to recuperate, and that's exactly what Clay got because of plain in your face cheating, and he needs to be disqualified retroactively and the record books changed.

x2x wrote:The boxing rules make no provision for extra time between rounds for a hurt fighter to recuperate, and that's exactly what Clay got because of plain in your face cheating, and he needs to be disqualified retroactively and the record books changed.

All this time you've been pent up Duce and it's time to let it all out now, isn't it?

x2x wrote:The boxing rules make no provision for extra time between rounds for a hurt fighter to recuperate, and that's exactly what Clay got because of plain in your face cheating, and he needs to be disqualified retroactively and the record books changed.

It would be completely impossible to prove Dundee cheated at this point. Even if that was proven, I can think of no precedent in any sport where something was reversed this far after it happened.

At most, if Dundee was found guilty in 1963 the fight may have been a no contest but Cooper could never have been declared the victor.

How many rounds did Cooper win against Clay/Ali?

Tony1244 wrote: It would be completely impossible to prove Dundee cheated at this point...

Not at all. In fact Dundee admitted it, bragged about it.

Clay vs Cooper 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Frn3rTj5DOY

Freedom2013 wrote:Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stiverne.

Here he is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84 ... 1421914688

I love Larry, I really do, in my top 5 heavyweights of all time, and much underrated. I think he would have beaten Wlad in respective primes, too quick, too savvy, too tough, and too hard hitting, but this is just jealous bullshit.

Wlad has turned into an incredible fighting machine, there's nobody out there to beat him. He'll pick the wings off of wilder, and beat him down slowly, until Wilder becomes negative and static, and then take him out.

Unless Wlad goes on way too long, I don't see him losing before he retires, Tyson fury - give me a break, Wlad would smash him to bit, he's better in every single department, bigger (yes in terms of actual useful size), stronger, faster, harder hitting, and technically on a different planet.

Tony1244 wrote:Bull. And why haven't the record books been fixed to show that the first fight was won by Cooper? It is a real shame that it wasn't done while he was still living.

Amazingly the media has been censoring and altering all available tapes of the first fight. I watched it on ESPN Classic and what they did was splice the knockdown of Clay by Cooper on to the next round, and they made no mention whatsoever of anything untoward happening between rounds! Deliberate and malicious fakery, just like most everything else on tv. I don't know if it is even possible to find a complete raw uncensored film of that fight now.

Have you been smoking banana peels? It's one thing to cheerlead your fighter, or your color, or whatever you're doing, but "Won by Cooper," is an hallucination of immense proportions.

Cooper did score a solid knockdown with a great left hook but Ali was up at the count of 4. I watched it many times. 10-8 round for Cooper as we would score it today. Only round Cooper won out of the 11 that the men fought.

Ali wasn't that badly stunned as you could tell in the corner. Dundee asked Ali to stand up and sit back down again, and his fighter did that with ease. The cut glove may have given him an extra minute.

To say Cooper could have won in the 5th round without the extra time is a valid opinion, but to say Cooper won is patently ridiculous.[/quote]

Ali was rocked to his boots, but his eyes were clear when he got up, and he had about as good a power of recovery as anyone in fighting history, including holmes and haggler. Ali always struggled with smaller, quicker heavyweights - watch his second fight with Patterson, Floyd gave him nightmares, and doug jones too.

To say Cooper could have won in the 5th round without the extra time is a valid opinion, but to say Cooper won is patently ridiculous.[/quote]

Ali was rocked to his boots, but his eyes were clear when he got up, and he had about as good a power of recovery as anyone in fighting history, including holmes and haggler. Ali always struggled with smaller, quicker heavyweights - watch his second fight with Patterson, Floyd gave him nightmares, and doug jones too.[/quote]


Ali took a great shot and recovered quickly. I haven't watched Ali-Patterson 1 in quite a while, but my memory of it was an easy Ali victory.

Freedom2013 wrote:Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart & would be beaten by Wilder or Stiverne.

Larry is perhaps the greatest heavyweight ever but he's always been capable of talking shyte.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:...
Ali was rocked to his boots, but his eyes were clear when he got up, and he had about as good a power of recovery as anyone in fighting history, including holmes and haggler....

That has nothing to do with it. He was given additional time to recover between rounds. He was given an indeterminate amount of additional time to recover because the U.S. media has systematically destroyed the real time tapes of the fight as best they could and spliced the rounds together and now show it without even mentioning that the slightest thing unusual happened between rounds when Clay's corner sliced open his glove and then sent out to find a new glove for him and then put on the new glove. That is exactly what they did when I saw the film of the fight on ESPN Classic.

Larry is perhaps the greatest heavyweight ever but he's always been capable of talking shyte.[/quote]


I think you hit the nail on the head, buddy.

they're just promoting the sport of boxing to non boxing fans. chill folks

x2x wrote:Holmes also said that Rocky Marciano was "nothing special". Guess where he's coming from. Three guesses.

PS I'm still pissed off that Gerry Cooney didn't beat that bum. He could have and should have if he had fought the way he always fought instead of trying to conserve his energy and mess around boxing in that 100 degree heat.

Cooney injured his left shoulder just before that fight. That was his left hook arm.
That was his bread and butter punch,or Suzie Q as they say. Thats also why he fought
with such unusual hesitancy and uncharacteristic timidness.