BoxRec

Perseus wrote:

Dennis wrote:Boxers who have shown a propensity to fight in the USA:
Beibut Shumenov
BJ Flores
Ola Afolabi
Thabiso Mchunu
Krzysztof Wlodarczyk
Olanrewaju Durodola
Rakhim Chakhkiev
Tony Bellew (Canada - close enough LOL)
Youri Kalenga (Again Canada - close enough)
Edwin Rodriguez
Yunier Dorticos
Murat Gassiev
Nathan Cleverly
Mateusz Masternak
Mairis Briedis
Lukasz Janik
Dmytro Kucher
Pawel Kolodziej
Plus all of the other cruiserweights who live in the U.S.

That is the vast majority of top cruiserweight contenders who have been willing to box in the USA. I'm sure even more will follow with all of the TV deals for boxing in the USA for 2015 and beyond.

So do you actually have any intention of putting him in the ring with somebody from this list or are you just going to keep talking about a nameless tv opponent?
You've made it clear that you would rather have him take safe fights with bums forever than actually take a risk going overseas to challenge anybody.

he doesn't intend on fighting any of these names he just trying to get a bit of publicity for his son posting on here

a while back told him i'd love to see Jordan fighting Usyk and he told me it's not a fight there interested in as Uysk is ranked lower than Jordan(dispite the fact Uysk has WSB experince etc behind him) dennis then said that when jordan is a world champion he would let usyk challenge for it lol seeing as he taught Jordan was ahead of him in the rankings he would get to a world title first. Uysk has since leapfrogged him in the rankings and is 4th with the wbo as he has been facing decent fighters instead of bums

dennis then said their now interested in a fight with usyk but only if its in america, dispite the fact that Usyk is a gold medalist(olympic and world) can already headline shows ,sell out arenas and has tv deals in the Ukraine, he should have to come to the US to fight someone ranked lower than him and has only fought journeymen on small time undercards and hasn't been on tv DD

So do you actually have any intention of putting him in the ring with somebody from this list or are you just going to keep talking about a nameless tv opponent?
You've made it clear that you would rather have him take safe fights with bums forever than actually take a risk going overseas to challenge anybody.[/quote]

he doesn't intend on fighting any of these names he just trying to get a bit of publicity for his son posting on here

a while back told him i'd love to see Jordan fighting Usyk and he told me it's not a fight there interested in as Uysk is ranked lower than Jordan(dispite the fact Uysk has WSB experince etc behind him) dennis then said that when jordan is a world champion he would let usyk challenge for it lol seeing as he taught Jordan was ahead of him in the rankings he would get to a world title first. Uysk has since leapfrogged him in the rankings and is 4th with the wbo as he has been facing decent fighters instead of bums

dennis then said their now interested in a fight with usyk but only if its in america, dispite the fact that Usyk is a gold medalist(olympic and world) can already headline shows ,sell out arenas and has tv deals in the Ukraine, he should have to come to the US to fight someone ranked lower than him and has only fought journeymen on small time undercards and hasn't been on tv DD[/quote]

Who did Cleverly or Tony Blew beat in their 1st 18 fights????

Cleverly and Bellew have 1 win apiece thats considered a big win and thats against each other.

Also Bellew has never fought in USA....England only.
Cleverly has fought in USA once when he made a joke of a defense in Cali against Shawn Hawk who was coming off a one sided loss to a 8-0 fighter.

Bellew and Cleverly have fought top comp once and got thier heads taken off then ran away to a different division. Bellew has got a little of my respect back with his win against a semi retired and nearly forty yr old fighter.

Outside of Bellew Cleverly has beat nobody....the dude is a joke and I'm pretty sure he's moving back down to LH to get his ass kicked again.

I agree about Bellew and Cleverly.

Jordan Shimmell has a great future. I know his skill set and so do some others. Soon more fans will too.

Jordan Shimmell looks a good prospect Dennis, but as his dad you are bound to be biased. He has only beaten one top 100 fighter. I think when he has wins against a top 50 fighter then a top 30 you can call him world rated, until then its all a bit 'chaunceywelliver'. Iexpect what will happen is you will manouvere him into a title shot without beating the gatekeepers of the 50, 40, 30 etc and he will get outpointed by the other's man experience.

Lennox you're using your rankings about which you are very biased. In other rankings Jordan has defeated three or four top 100 guys.

Dennis wrote:Lennox you're using your rankings about which you are very biased.

You're a kind dude.

Please BoxRecJesus make Lennox stop bringing up his crappy rankings.

Here are the most recent WBC world cruiserweight ratings:

CHAMPION: GRIGORY DROZD (RUSSIA)
WON TITLE: September 27, 2014
LAST DEFENSE:
LAST COMPULSORY: December 6, 2013
WBA CHAMPION: Denis Lebedev (Russia)
IBF CHAMPION: Yoan Pablo Hernandez (Cuba)
WBO CHAMPION: Marco Huck (Germany)

Contenders:
WBC SILVER CHAMPION:Rakhim Chakhkiev (Russia)
WBC INT. CHAMPION:VACANT
1 - Rakhim Chakhkiev (Russia) SILVER/EBU
2 - Thabiso Mchunu (South Africa) NABF
3 - Ilunga Makabu (Congo)
4 - Ola Afolabi (GB)
5 - Krzyzstof Wlodarczyk (Poland)
6 - Dmitry Kudryashov (Russia) CISBB
7 - Olanrewaja Durodola (Nigeria/US) AMERICA
8 - Murat Gassiev (Russia)
9 - Dmytro Kucher (Ukraine)
10 - Mirko Larghetti (Italy)
11 - Yunier Dorticos (Cuba) LATINO
12 - BJ Flores (US)
13 - Mateusz Masternak (Poland)
14 - Lukasz Janik (Poland)
15 - Francisco Palacios (P. Rico)
16 - Mairis Briedis (Latvia) BALTIC
17 - Beibut Shumenov (Kazakhstan)
18 - Oleksandr Usyk (Ukraine)
19 - Jordan Shimmell (US)
20 - Junior Wright (US)
21 - Stivens Bujaj (US/Albania) USNBC
22 - Stephen Simmons (GB) INTL SILVER
23 - Ovil McKenzie (GB) COMM/BBB C
24 - Micki Nielsen (Denmark) YOUTH
25 - Shawn Cox (Barbados)
26 - Noel Gevor (Armenia/Germany)
27 - Maxim Maslov (Russia) ABCO
28 - Anthony McCracken (Australia) OPBF
29 - Al Sands (Haiti)
30 - Ryad Merhy (Belgium)
31 - Bilal Laggoune (Belgium)
32 - Santander Silgado (Colombia) FECARBOX
33 - Keith Tapia (P. Rico)
34 - Cristian Medina (Argentina)
35 - Alex Guerrero (US)
36 - Isiah Thomas (US)
37 - Quantis Graves (US)
38 - David Aloua (New Zealand/Australia)
39 - Isa Akberbayev (Kazachstan)
40 - Damir Beljo (Bosnia&Herzegovina)

Because the WBC rankings are so credible too..

It is called consistency. Jordan Shimmell is ranked #19 by both the WBC and the IBO. The other sanctioning bodies, the WBA, WBO and IBF only publish their top 15 so I don't know where Jordan ranks in their ratings. Jordan is also ranked by the regional bodies for those groups #3 NABF (WBC), #3 NABA (WBA), #3 NABO (WBO) and #2 USBA (IBF). BoxRec ranks Jordan #1 U.S. and #24 World. According to all the major ranking organizations Jordan is somewhere in the top 20/25 neighborhood.

The WBA, WBC, WBO and IBF only matter because being ranked with them leads to a title shot, their rankings aren't exactly known for listing the best fighters and the IBO is completely meaningless. Boxrec rankings are done by a computer and computer formulas are no good for ranking fighters. Come back with some credible, independent rankings.

expe wrote:The WBA, WBC, WBO and IBF only matter because being ranked with them leads to a title shot, their rankings aren't exactly known for listing the best fighters and the IBO is completely meaningless. Boxrec rankings are done by a computer and computer formulas are no good for ranking fighters. Come back with some credible, independent rankings.

What makes independent rankings any more credible than Boxrec's rankings?

Boxrec's rankings are independent as they aren't tied into any sanctioning organization.

Why all the Dennis hating.
The guy is proud of his son and wants to brag a little.
If my son was undefeated and world ranked I'd be posting
About him way more than Dennis is.

tiny_acres wrote:Why all the Dennis hating.
The guy is proud of his son and wants to brag a little.
If my son was undefeated and world ranked I'd be posting
About him way more than Dennis is.

Thank you. I don't hide who I am behind some anonymous screenname and pretend that I'm not related to the boxer I discuss. I acknowledge that he is my son and does that make me biased? You bet it does.

Dennis wrote:Boxrec's rankings are independent as they aren't tied into any sanctioning organization.

They're independent but they aren't much good because a formula draws up the rankings, they're calculated by a computer. Boxing is far too complex for a computer to put together accurate rankings and the sanctioning bodies all have their own agenda when it comes to rankings. Independent rankings put together by people are the best way to go IMO.

Dennis wrote:

tiny_acres wrote:Why all the Dennis hating.
The guy is proud of his son and wants to brag a little.
If my son was undefeated and world ranked I'd be posting
About him way more than Dennis is.

Thank you. I don't hide who I am behind some anonymous screenname and pretend that I'm not related to the boxer I discuss. I acknowledge that he is my son and does that make me biased? You bet it does.

I don't blame you, from what I've seen he's a good fighter, don't think he's ready for the top names yet though. Definitely time for a step up fight, too many at the level he's fighting at and there's the danger he'll go stale. Don't think he needs to go to Europe yet though, build up a following in the US, probably have to go on the road for a title shot, but if he wins he won't have to travel again, fighters will go anywhere for a world title fight. Likewise with the Usyk fight, that's one for further down the line IMO.

All this talk of Usyk, let's be serious, that'd be career suicide for Jordan at this point, but it would be nice if his career doesn't follow the BJ Flores career path of fighting nobodies for ages, hoping to get a title shot from beating an accumulation of weak opposition.

Blodhemn wrote:All this talk of Usyk, let's be serious, that'd be career suicide for Jordan at this point, but it would be nice if his career doesn't follow the BJ Flores career path of fighting nobodies for ages, hoping to get a title shot from beating an accumulation of weak opposition.

Flores only wanted a title shot if he could find a spent bullet wearing a belt. Opportunities to fight Adamek and Wlodarczyk came around but he always had a reason not to take the fight. He wouldn't have challenged Green for his fringe belt if he wasn't a blown-up light heavyweight and getting along in years.
Forget winning a world title....................if Shimmel just steps in the ring with a top cruiser he'll be ahead of Flores.

Lebedev vs Janik in Russia. Lebedev being trained by Freddie Roach in California. I bet he would fight in the USA if given the opportunity.

Dennis wrote:Lebedev vs Janik in Russia. Lebedev being trained by Freddie Roach in California. I bet he would fight in the USA if given the opportunity.

only if he was paid more than what he makes in russia which given his promoter is a lot of money

and world titles are miles away from jordan at this stage lets call a spade a spade, he needs to step past low journeyman level first, Usyk is leaving him in his dust and Jordan got a 17 month head start on turning pro

Sometimes guys like Lebenev will take a cut in pay to get on USA tv......so the world can see him fight. Then again some dont so we will have to see.

No they don't take paycuts to go to the us they go to make more money

Lebedev promoter probebly pays him truck loads of money and fight in Russia means his fights are on at a perfect time to be shown all over Europe unlike if they were on American tv

Dennis ; Boxrec ratings and IBO ratings are the same (except IBO remove the 5 champions).

If you want to call Galen Brown a top 100 fighter and pump Jordan on the strength of that, then check Galen's record, if he was a top 100 fighter on boxrec at that time he fought JS then that shows how bad the boxrec ratings are;

Boxrec ratings way over value meaningless fights, that's why you see some fighters miles too high.

The Independent World Boxing Rankings calculates the ratings on merit. The opposition quality is the main factor, so if a fighter has never fought anyone in the top 100 he wont be in the top 50. I think everyone would agree that the best fighters should fight the next best fighters, boxing sadly does not work that way in that everyone tries to dodge fights and take the easiest path. I think it is hard to make a case that someone who has never fought anyone in the top 50 should get a world title shot, but it happens pretty much every month.

The ratings are not crappy, they have been around since 1991 and published since 1993 for a long time they were recognised as the bible by many in the trade (over 500 subscribers in 1998) Then the IBO took them on licence until a year ago. You will find flaws in any set of ratings by the IWBR is based on man who beat the man who beat the man. I am sure Jordan is better than his #48 rating but as it stands at the moment that is his independent position based on the formula.

We have some new additions in the next week or so; Last six fights is being extended to Last twenty fights so you can see the opposition quality in greater detail.

www.independentworldboxingrankings.com

Jordan should look to a fight with BJ Flores, for all his faults the guy would sell the fight for your team Dennis and build Jordans profile, he's very beatable and would provide a good step up in terms of competition and rankings.

That makes the most sense to me out of any Cruiser if your going to move your son forward.