BoxRec

If anyone started to call Golovkin 'all hype' I'd ask them to look at the biography section on Golovkin's BoxRec record.

To be honest, i think there would be a lot of revisionism and pulling apart of GGGs record and how it was padded out with a lot of lower level names a la 'Left Hook'. Add to that they Murray has been in with genuine world class fighters before and it gets easier to pass GGG off as hype.

Agreed Freddy...and like Palooka and youself mentioned, it'd be the wrong thing to do. Golvokin is the real deal and if Murray did beat him then I do think we go back to Honeyghan turning up in the US as a complete unknown and beating Curry. I don't think it would go as far as Turpin beating Sugar Ray Robinson....but it would be majorly decent.

Bodyshot3 wrote:

To be honest, i think there would be a lot of revisionism and pulling apart of GGGs record and how it was padded out with a lot of lower level names a la 'Left Hook'. Add to that they Murray has been in with genuine world class fighters before and it gets easier to pass GGG off as hype.

Agreed Freddy...and like Palooka and youself mentioned, it'd be the wrong thing to do. Golvokin is the real deal and if Murray did beat him then I do think we go back to Honeyghan turning up in the US as a complete unknown and beating Curry. I don't think it would go as far as Turpin beating Sugar Ray Robinson....but it would be majorly decent.

Yeah but that guy Sugar Ray Robinson was way overrated, his record is padded, who did he ever beat? Etc etc

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:

To be honest, i think there would be a lot of revisionism and pulling apart of GGGs record and how it was padded out with a lot of lower level names a la 'Left Hook'. Add to that they Murray has been in with genuine world class fighters before and it gets easier to pass GGG off as hype.

Agreed Freddy...and like Palooka and youself mentioned, it'd be the wrong thing to do. Golvokin is the real deal and if Murray did beat him then I do think we go back to Honeyghan turning up in the US as a complete unknown and beating Curry. I don't think it would go as far as Turpin beating Sugar Ray Robinson....but it would be majorly decent.

Yeah but that guy Sugar Ray Robinson was way overrated, his record is padded, who did he ever beat? Etc etc

And he lost nigh on 20 times,overrated ,he couldn't carry Ali Raymi's jockstrap

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:Just supposing Martin did win this one.....where would that rank in terms of great world title upsets pulled-off by Brit fighters?
Think it would come in pretty near the summit in my opinion...maybe on a par with Honeyghan sticking one on Curry?

I posed this question on another thread, don't think anyone came up with a bigger upset. This would be possibly surpass the Honeyghan victory imo.

Curry was P4P #2 when Lloyd battered him, 2nd only to Hagler - Unified the world title in a superfight with a stunning second-round knockout, then clinicaly took out a series of top contenders, so was a superstar at the time.
GGG hasnt hit those heights yet....

I really like how active Golovkin is, he's not hiding away with a title trying to wrangle a big bout and I'd put him was the best in his division.

MightyWarrior wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:Just supposing Martin did win this one.....where would that rank in terms of great world title upsets pulled-off by Brit fighters?
Think it would come in pretty near the summit in my opinion...maybe on a par with Honeyghan sticking one on Curry?

I posed this question on another thread, don't think anyone came up with a bigger upset. This would be possibly surpass the Honeyghan victory imo.

Curry was P4P #2 when Lloyd battered him, 2nd only to Hagler - Unified the world title in a superfight with a stunning second-round knockout, then clinicaly took out a series of top contenders, so was a superstar at the time.
GGG hasnt hit those heights yet....

This, although I think Golovkin will get there when he moves up a division.

MightyWarrior wrote:

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:Just supposing Martin did win this one.....where would that rank in terms of great world title upsets pulled-off by Brit fighters?
Think it would come in pretty near the summit in my opinion...maybe on a par with Honeyghan sticking one on Curry?

I posed this question on another thread, don't think anyone came up with a bigger upset. This would be possibly surpass the Honeyghan victory imo.

Curry was P4P #2 when Lloyd battered him, 2nd only to Hagler - Unified the world title in a superfight with a stunning second-round knockout, then clinicaly took out a series of top contenders, so was a superstar at the time.
GGG hasnt hit those heights yet....

Yep fair point. But where is GGG in the P4P rankings at the moment? Probably 2 or 3 on most people's lists (where's Horse when you need him ), and he would likely have unified the titles by now if any of the other titleists had the balls to face him. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but everything I've seen of GGG so far - both amateur & professional - indicates he's the real deal.

So objectively I'd say - in terms of the gap between 2 competing fighters - there's at least an argument for Murray pulling off an equally big upset. But yeah, I agree that if GGG loses on Saturday night, it certainly won't have the same impact as Honeyghan's victory. Although just imagine how much of a superstar GGG might currently be if he was a Yank...

Although I think Murray has his work cut out on Saturday night, bizarrely the following statement is true:

Murray has actually fought higher class opponents than Golovkin (Sturm & Martinez) and has fought in the more intimidating atmospheres (Buenos Aires especially - 50,000 Argentians vs a Top 3 p4p guy coming off one of his best wins).

As such you know Murray at the very least won't be in the slightest bit phased by the opponent or the occasion.

That's going to help him implement his gameplan with confidence.

Maxsplit wrote:As such you know Murray at the very least won't be in the slightest bit phased by the opponent or the occasion.

The occasion maybe not, but I'm sure he'll be thinking about the scale of the task.

In terms of Murray potentially getting the win, there aren't many crumbs he can cling to sadly. The chances are remote and realistically the most likely favourable outcome for Murray is going the distance and making GGG look human/ordinary.

Murray did more than this vs Martinez who at the time was ranked #3 p4p. Obviously time has shed light on his injuries. But at the time nobody gave Murray any chance whatsoever.

Golovkin could have an off day I guess. He wasn't undefeated in the amateurs and in his last fight of note (the 2004 Olympic final) he was soundly beaten 28-18. He lost 5 times in total, so 5 guys got the better of him. He isn't superhuman.

Unlike say Vitali Klitschko, he does actually lose rounds in the pro ranks too. Not very many, but occasionally it happens.

Within the last year Adama clearly won the 5th round and had GGG on the backfoot for the whole round bar the last 20 seconds, so got Golovkin's respect.

Golovkin's face has occasionally seemed to mark up in the handful or tougher fights he has been in. Something a rough-house fighter schooled in the darker arts might be able to exploit. Murray has been accused of being that kind of fighter before.

His defence isn't actually that good. As Garcia's coach said earlier in the week he got hit with 52 jabs in 2 rounds in one fight recently. However his chin is exceptional. For that reason I would recommend going to the body when he swings his wide right hooks and 'chop him down' as with a head the size of Golvkin's and never having been dropped as a pro or amateur - head hunting seems futile.

As I said small crumbs for Murray, but Golovkin has lost before, is vunerable to being roughed up and leaves himself open to body shots (a Murray speciality).

As I also mentioned in a post above, Murray has also fought the better opponents (Sturm & Martinez). Golovkin has actually yet to fight anyone of that level and Murray is arguably his toughest fight on paper to date in his 32nd fight.

That's about all I can think of Murray's favour in terms of weaknesses in GGG. As I said it's not much!

I'd rate Murray's chances of wnning around 5-10% ... but stranger things have happened in boxing!

Which opponent hit GGG with 52 jabs in two rounds? Sounds like nonsense to me......

crusader wrote:Which opponent hit GGG with 52 jabs in two rounds? Sounds like nonsense to me......

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8HqG8F3ahQ

He doesn't say tbf. Geale?

Garcia has been largely negative about GGG and even mocked him in past videos, and does him saying that it happened mean that it happened? I'm not seeing how he was hit with even close to that many jabs across two rounds in his fights that I've seen, which are all of those available online, and while I get that he doesn't have the best defense it's hardly that bad in my opinion.

A flaw you mentioned that I have noticed is that he doesn't seem to fight well on the back foot, which is where he was when Rosado, Adama, Stevens, and most notably Ouma had some of their brightest moments. The problem of course, which is also visible in the case of Wlad Klitschko, is that GGG is so potent offensively that opponents seem very weary of opening themselves up and staying in his range, which I think equates to consigning themselves to a slower but more assured beating rather than possibly incurring more damage in a shorter period but having a better chance of success

For Murray to win beyond some type of hail-mary or cut stoppage I think he needs to be relatively aggressive and put GGG on the back foot much more than the latter is accustomed to being; that's where GGG has been most vulnerable, Murray is physically strong and probably the bigger man, and I highly doubt that he has sufficient ability to win the fight on the back foot or just standing in place trading. Will he do that? It's been mentioned that he's been in the backyards of good opponents without seeming phased, but neither of them possessed close to the same firepower that GGG does and if Murray realizes that GGG can hurt him far more easily than the other two did I can see him going into a shell. I suspect that he will do better than people like Geale and Macklin but ultimately hide too much behind his guard and get broken down without causing GGG many issues.

crusader wrote:Garcia has been largely negative about GGG and even mocked him in past videos, and does him saying that it happened mean that it happened? I'm not seeing how he was hit with even close to that many jabs across two rounds in his fights that I've seen, which are all of those available online, and while I get that he doesn't have the best defense it's hardly that bad in my opinion.

A flaw you mentioned that I have noticed is that he doesn't seem to fight well on the back foot, which is where he was when Rosado, Adama, Stevens, and most notably Ouma had some of their brightest moments. The problem of course, which is also visible in the case of Wlad Klitschko, is that GGG is so potent offensively that opponents seem very weary of opening themselves up and staying in his range, which I think equates to consigning themselves to a slower but more assured beating rather than possibly incurring more damage in a shorter period but having a better chance of success

For Murray to win beyond some type of hail-mary or cut stoppage I think he needs to be relatively aggressive and put GGG on the back foot much more than the latter is accustomed to being; that's where GGG has been most vulnerable, Murray is physically strong and probably the bigger man, and I highly doubt that he has sufficient ability to win the fight on the back foot or just standing in place trading. Will he do that? It's been mentioned that he's been in the backyards of good opponents without seeming phased, but neither of them possessed close to the same firepower that GGG does and if Murray realizes that GGG can hurt him far more easily than the other two did I can see him going into a shell. I suspect that he will do better than people like Geale and Macklin but ultimately hide too much behind his guard and get broken down without causing GGG many issues.

Good points

I actually just watched the Olympic final to see how he lost convincingly to his opponent ... and basically the Russian fought ugly, up close and wouldn't let GGG get any work off. He also seemed to be the stronger guy and was throwing him about a bit. By the 3rd and 4th rounds Golovkin had unravelled, was getting tagged and windmilling a bit (probably out of frustration) and Gaydarbekov cruised to an ugly gold vs GGG.

http://youtu.be/KZkfv3ZsJ3E

I would say that's the blueprint there to beating Golovkin. Smother his work up close, don't let him get anything off and rough him up and be the bigman vs him. He seems to lose his cool.

Murray is the naturally bigger guy physically so hopefully this will be the approach he takes.

Peter Fury seems to think this is the key to success for Murray too here's what he said in this week;s Boxing News:

"If I was advising Martin Murray, I’d advise him to keep up a fantastic work-rate. He’s got to be all over Golovkin and not let him set. In other words, he’s got to take him out of his rhythm, rough him up and chuck boxing out the window. He’s got to step all over Golovkin and land punches, arms, elbows, whatever it takes. He’s got to rough him up and have a good go. He needs to bite down on that gum shield and say to himself, ‘Right, let’s have a war.’ He needs to be on Golovkin’s chest to stop him getting leverage on his heavy shots. He needs to completely maul him."

That basically is how he lost the Olympic Final.

Can Murray implement that though?

Seriously, Papa Garcia is an out and out nutcase anyway, he didn't even know if GG had been past 5 rounds.

Maxsplit wrote:

crusader wrote:Garcia has been largely negative about GGG and even mocked him in past videos, and does him saying that it happened mean that it happened? I'm not seeing how he was hit with even close to that many jabs across two rounds in his fights that I've seen, which are all of those available online, and while I get that he doesn't have the best defense it's hardly that bad in my opinion.

A flaw you mentioned that I have noticed is that he doesn't seem to fight well on the back foot, which is where he was when Rosado, Adama, Stevens, and most notably Ouma had some of their brightest moments. The problem of course, which is also visible in the case of Wlad Klitschko, is that GGG is so potent offensively that opponents seem very weary of opening themselves up and staying in his range, which I think equates to consigning themselves to a slower but more assured beating rather than possibly incurring more damage in a shorter period but having a better chance of success

For Murray to win beyond some type of hail-mary or cut stoppage I think he needs to be relatively aggressive and put GGG on the back foot much more than the latter is accustomed to being; that's where GGG has been most vulnerable, Murray is physically strong and probably the bigger man, and I highly doubt that he has sufficient ability to win the fight on the back foot or just standing in place trading. Will he do that? It's been mentioned that he's been in the backyards of good opponents without seeming phased, but neither of them possessed close to the same firepower that GGG does and if Murray realizes that GGG can hurt him far more easily than the other two did I can see him going into a shell. I suspect that he will do better than people like Geale and Macklin but ultimately hide too much behind his guard and get broken down without causing GGG many issues.

Good points

I actually just watched the Olympic final to see how he lost convincingly to his opponent ... and basically the Russian fought ugly, up close and wouldn't let GGG get any work off. He also seemed to be the stronger guy and was throwing him about a bit. By the 3rd and 4th rounds Golovkin had unravelled, was getting tagged and windmilling a bit (probably out of frustration) and Gaydarbekov cruised to an ugly gold vs GGG.

http://youtu.be/KZkfv3ZsJ3E

I would say that's the blueprint there to beating Golovkin. Smother his work up close, don't let him get anything off and rough him up and be the bigman vs him. He seems to lose his cool.

Murray is the naturally bigger guy physically so hopefully this will be the approach he takes.

Peter Fury seems to think this is the key to success for Murray too here's what he said in this week;s Boxing News:

"If I was advising Martin Murray, I’d advise him to keep up a fantastic work-rate. He’s got to be all over Golovkin and not let him set. In other words, he’s got to take him out of his rhythm, rough him up and chuck boxing out the window. He’s got to step all over Golovkin and land punches, arms, elbows, whatever it takes. He’s got to rough him up and have a good go. He needs to bite down on that gum shield and say to himself, ‘Right, let’s have a war.’ He needs to be on Golovkin’s chest to stop him getting leverage on his heavy shots. He needs to completely maul him."

That basically is how he lost the Olympic Final.

Can Murray implement that though?

Good analysis. A lot of what you've touched on there is the reason that many people think Ward is the only opponent who could realistically give GGG problems at the moment. Other than the high work rate, Ward potentially ticks all the boxes if he fought the same way as he did against Kessler.

GGG 158.9
Murray 159.9

can't see Murray fighting a roughouse fight , always technically sound ,never seen him come out winging , still hope he has enough , but the head says no .

I forecast Murray going up to super middle if he loses tomorrow.

Any photos yet?

http://www.proboxing-fans.com/gennady-g ... eo_022015/

Just found the link. Both in good shape.

I think it's fair to say from those photos that Murray is treating this fight a bit more seriously than GGGs previous opponent, Rubio

I feel like I'm serving myself up here for a shellacking (a bit like Martin Murray), but what exactly is it that boxing fans are seeing in Golovkin that leads them to think he is "great", or the "real deal"?

We can all see that he's a puncher. But why is there a fanatical desire to believe he's some indomitable monster, on par with anyone in history?

Let's look at him objectively. He hasn't had one single great win, hasn't entered into any 50/50 fight, is defending a devalued WBA belt in a mostly impotent division - and he's already 32 years old!

I appreciate his KOs have breathed life into the dull middleweight scene, and can understand why he is popular, but the raving over his ability, which has so far only been demonstrated on second class opponents, is mystifying to me.