BoxRec

Badhusker wrote:Some of the stupid arguments I read....seriously? Saying Floyd is much more of a catchweight king than Pac? You cannot be that effing dumb. Pac/Roach have played the weight game to their advantage in numerous fights. Only one time has Floyd made a guy cut weight (Canelo), and it was actually a gift if you think about it, since Canelo offered to go 150. Canelo made that offer a year earlier, but jumped right on Floyd's offer to make it 152 instead of 150. There was no objection from Canelo or his team, and it was their offer to go 152, not Floyd. Floyd's team even said at the time that they would have gladly went 154, but if they are dumb enough to offer 152, they went with it.

If you want the breakdown of Pac's last 10 fights, I can provide details of weight stipulations of either up/down to Pac's advantage. Roach is behind all of it.

I agree with the present Cotto catchweight crap, but guess what - Roach is his trainer.

Cotto was asking for 150 with 160 rehydration clause for a SWW title defense vs one eyed non contender before Roach. Not that Roach doesn't love a CW.

Canelo's 150 CW offer came if 2011, after he'd just turned 21. By 2013 it was off the table, mostly cause he could no longer make 150. AFAIK hasn't even made 154 since Floyd

Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez: Floyd Mayweather must face me at 154 pounds, I can't go lower

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.s ... _mayw.html

Badhusker wrote:Canelo offered to go 150. Canelo made that offer a year earlier, but jumped right on Floyd's offer to make it 152 instead of 150. There was no objection from Canelo or his team, and it was their offer to go 152, not Floyd. Floyd's team even said at the time that they would have gladly went 154

I heard Canelo was actually hoping the bout take place at a weight no greater than 139lb and was gutted Floyd insisted on 152!

Donny Lalonde said that “Making 168 for me was not the issue. I fought at 171-to-173 all the time, so 168 was not an issue for me, and I did not feel I was compromising my chances by agreeing to 168.”

I agree he said that to Ring Magazine, but it seems to depend who he is talking to and on what day:

From http://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/no ... s-on/20464 (and referring to Boxing News in 2010):

“Yeah, I definitely think the weight was a big factor,” Donny told me thoughtfully in 2010.

“As a mater of fact, Gil Clancy told me before the fight that if I fought Ray at 175, I’d beat him every time, but at 168, Ray beats me. Having said that, I felt quite strong at the 167-pounds I came in at. The thing was, Ray and I had a private agreement that for every pound I came in over 168, I would be fined a million dollars. I wasn’t worried, but the people around me were – as they were concerned they’d lose some money if I lost some money.

“So I do feel Tommy Gallagher over-trained me for that fight. I told him, ‘I don’t need to spar ten-rounds every day.’ And he said, ‘it’s okay, you’ll make weight and be able to fight hard all night.’ I was thinking, ‘hey, I fight hard all night anyway.’ I knew something was wrong when I ran five straight miles in Las Vegas and didn’t even break a sweat. So I was weakened, yes.”

Similar comments at http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/qa-donn ... nde-203670, although there he says he was really 163, not 167. So the story varies.

But frankly, for $5m or whatever Lalonde ended up getting, I wouldn't criticise Lalonde for dropping down to 168, and when you've put Sugar Ray Leonard on the floor, you've rather got the right to tell whatever version of the story you like, in my view!

Badhusker wrote:Some of the stupid arguments I read....seriously? Saying Floyd is much more of a catchweight king than Pac? You cannot be that effing dumb. Pac/Roach have played the weight game to their advantage in numerous fights. Only one time has Floyd made a guy cut weight (Canelo), and it was actually a gift if you think about it, since Canelo offered to go 150. Canelo made that offer a year earlier, but jumped right on Floyd's offer to make it 152 instead of 150. There was no objection from Canelo or his team, and it was their offer to go 152, not Floyd. Floyd's team even said at the time that they would have gladly went 154, but if they are dumb enough to offer 152, they went with it.

If you want the breakdown of Pac's last 10 fights, I can provide details of weight stipulations of either up/down to Pac's advantage. Roach is behind all of it.

I agree with the present Cotto catchweight crap, but guess what - Roach is his trainer.

I don't like catchweights as a rule, but they have their uses.

A 154 lb catchweight could make a GGG/Floyd of GGG/Pac fight, for example.

You hit the nail on the head about Roach. But that doesn't absolve the fighter of blame since they agree to the shenanigans.

There is no bigger abuser of weight games the past decade than Manny Pacquiao and Roach.

And not all the games were just catchweights. They are masters at taking advantage when they know a guy is having trouble making weight or getting ready to move up a class.

It goes all the way back to the second Morales fight.

Purse Bid Shakedown wrote:

Badhusker wrote:Some of the stupid arguments I read....seriously? Saying Floyd is much more of a catchweight king than Pac? You cannot be that effing dumb. Pac/Roach have played the weight game to their advantage in numerous fights. Only one time has Floyd made a guy cut weight (Canelo), and it was actually a gift if you think about it, since Canelo offered to go 150. Canelo made that offer a year earlier, but jumped right on Floyd's offer to make it 152 instead of 150. There was no objection from Canelo or his team, and it was their offer to go 152, not Floyd. Floyd's team even said at the time that they would have gladly went 154, but if they are dumb enough to offer 152, they went with it.

If you want the breakdown of Pac's last 10 fights, I can provide details of weight stipulations of either up/down to Pac's advantage. Roach is behind all of it.

I agree with the present Cotto catchweight crap, but guess what - Roach is his trainer.

Cotto was asking for 150 with 160 rehydration clause for a SWW title defense vs one eyed non contender before Roach. Not that Roach doesn't love a CW.

Canelo's 150 CW offer came if 2011, after he'd just turned 21. By 2013 it was off the table, mostly cause he could no longer make 150. AFAIK hasn't even made 154 since Floyd

Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez: Floyd Mayweather must face me at 154 pounds, I can't go lower

http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/index.s ... _mayw.html

Mayweather's team said 152 was offered to them, Canelo's team said it was forced on them. It depends on who you think is lying I guess. Canelo did weigh 153 for the Trout fight, so I guess I would tend to believe Floyd's team.
Regardless, catch weight fights are all crap....absolute BS. We have 17 fornicating weights, yet boxers seem to have the need to make up more weights in between. Hell, if we had 34 weights, they would do the same stupid thing. Mandated catch weights need to be non-title bouts, period.

Badhusker wrote: Mayweather's team said 152 was offered to them, Canelo's team said it was forced on them. It depends on who you think is lying I guess. Canelo did weigh 153 for the Trout fight, so I guess I would tend to believe Floyd's team.

You crackpots really can't believe the shite you post.

Ricky_ wrote:

Badhusker wrote: Mayweather's team said 152 was offered to them, Canelo's team said it was forced on them. It depends on who you think is lying I guess. Canelo did weigh 153 for the Trout fight, so I guess I would tend to believe Floyd's team.

You crackpots really can't believe the shite you post.

Well, if you really want to look at what happened between Floyd and Kid Cinammon objectively, you have to be willing to look at the whole picture.

When Canelo won his first jr middle belt, it was against a career welterweight at a contracted catchweight of 150 lbs- which he failed to make, coming in 2 lbs heavy.

He then made a point in letting anyone who would listen know he would drop to 150 for Floyd. Like here:

http://caneloalvarez.com/canelo-alvarez ... eather-jr/

Yes, Canelo did eventually back off the 150, but not off the idea of a catchweight.

“If I’m not mistaken, they came on record and said that they wanted to meet at a catchweight, so we came up with 152 and both parties said we’re comfortable with that. You’re going to hear people criticize me and say, “You’re doing the same thing Pacquiao is doing, fighting everybody at a catchweight,” No I’m not because Pacquiao presents that to his opponents. Once again these people brought this to me. “They said, “Well, we’ll fight Mayweather at a catchweight.” That’s all you had to say. You said that. I didn’t bring that to you guys; you guys brought it to me, then i said, “Well we can meet in the middle.” Then you said, “No, we don’t want to meet in the middle. We want to meet at 152.” So I said, “Let’s make it happen!”

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/2013/ ... tchweight/

And it makes sense that 152 would be where Canelo thought he would be OK...it's the weight he won the first title at, and one which would not hinder him from blowing back up past 170 pounds, which he did.

If folks think weight has anything to do with that fight, they are entitle to their opinion.

But it aint necessarily so. Truth is, we don't know for sure.