BoxRec

Ricky_ wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:I watched it with 5 guys,we are all big PAC fans who dislike FM. None of us had any complaints, he won 2 rounds for sure, 4 at the most. These people saying PAC won do not understand how a boxing match is scored.

Defense
Ring Generalship
Aggression
Clean Punching

Too many people get bogged down by Sky's deplorable commentry fawning over Floyd's elusiveness (legal and illegal). He offered nothing in the way of offense. Zero. By his own admission post fight he just kept moving and sticking the jab out. Defense accounrs for 1/4 of scoring. This is the fight game at the end of the day, not dressage or figure skating. It's time judges scored fights properly and reward action not inaction. if Pac employed the same tactics we'd have 12 rounds repeated of the first 3 mins of Haye v Audley.

hahahhaaha brilliant. As pointed out above there are four things you have listed and mayweather easily did better with three of the four. FFS you have made then destroyed your own argument and cannot even see it.

Ricky_ wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:I watched it with 5 guys,we are all big PAC fans who dislike FM. None of us had any complaints, he won 2 rounds for sure, 4 at the most. These people saying PAC won do not understand how a boxing match is scored.

Defense
Ring Generalship
Aggression
Clean Punching

Too many people get bogged down by Sky's deplorable commentry fawning over Floyd's elusiveness (legal and illegal). He offered nothing in the way of offense. Zero. By his own admission post fight he just kept moving and sticking the jab out. Defense accounrs for 1/4 of scoring. This is the fight game at the end of the day, not dressage or figure skating. It's time judges scored fights properly and reward action not inaction. if Pac employed the same tactics we'd have 12 rounds repeated of the first 3 mins of Haye v Audley.

But if you were to continue that very simplistic argument, Floyd was also superior in Ring Generalship & Clean Punching, so added to his Defence that makes 3/4. Which was pretty much reflected in the scorecards.

Mayweather 116-112

I thought the fight was a farce to be honest, invited alot of casual fans over to watch it only for everyone to be disappointed. More disappointed in Pacquiao than Mayweather, wtf happened to his workrate. When he simply let his hands go in the fight he was winning the round, the fact that he actually threw less punches than Floyd, only 429, is a farce. If he was ever to win this fight he needed an output similar to the Cotto (800+) or Margarito (1000+) fights. Floyd won clear but it was hardly a masterclass like Calzaghe/Lazy... he just did enough to eek out a few extra rounds..

These guys had the world watching, could have delivered us a classic such as Marquez vs Vazquez and done boxing the world of good, but what resulted instead was too much money involved and not enough passion... snoozer

"Effective" aggression

Walking forwards and throwing (or not throwing in the case of Saturday) is not effective.

Floyd was catching him coming in with the fast left , and spearing him with that rakish right hand all night. He brought back those Marquez nightmares for Manny.

I think the injury is legit, but they're really dining out on it. Because at first he said 'I won the fight' then in the presser after said 'I lost because of my shoulder'

It's nonsense like this, when people who are supposed to be respectable and know the sport post utter garbage - that makes me always pray for a conclusive ending.

A different view is fine, but absolute incompetence / blindness is exactly that.

I thought it was a laboured win for Floyd...couple of moments...but not that much...had it fairly close but it seemed like Pac won his rounds because Floyd took them off or they were close enough to go either way...

Come on though... Floyd was on his bike in the last round...moving backwards from a bloke whose best days were as a featherweight.

I'd say I can't wait for him to retire but the yanks are already lining up Ward to replace him...thanks to God for quick drying paint.

Ricky_ wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:I watched it with 5 guys,we are all big PAC fans who dislike FM. None of us had any complaints, he won 2 rounds for sure, 4 at the most. These people saying PAC won do not understand how a boxing match is scored.

Defense
Ring Generalship
Aggression
Clean Punching

Too many people get bogged down by Sky's deplorable commentry fawning over Floyd's elusiveness (legal and illegal). He offered nothing in the way of offense. Zero. By his own admission post fight he just kept moving and sticking the jab out. Defense accounrs for 1/4 of scoring. This is the fight game at the end of the day, not dressage or figure skating. It's time judges scored fights properly and reward action not inaction. if Pac employed the same tactics we'd have 12 rounds repeated of the first 3 mins of Haye v Audley.

That is not how you score boxing. Which is why you think Pacquiao won, you score on the number and quality of clean shots landed then if it's a close round you take into consideration the other factors.

Casual fans have given rounds to manny for walking forward and throwing shots at mayweathers gloves and arms and are ingnoring that manny was taking clean shots to the face whilst doing it.

He absolutely 100% lost that fight by a landslide.

Casual fans or people with a lack of understanding like yourself are really starting to piss me off with their fornicating stupidity.

Also it's effective aggression NOT aggression. Manny's was moving forward but not using effective aggression. Maidana used effective aggression against mayweather and won the closer rounds due to it.

Mayweather by 4 rounds for me.

Manny didn't just walk fwd, he was fantastic at cutting off the ring off, however floyd wriggled out the corners and got on his bike in an even greater fashion. It was artistic from both fighters. Even PACmans defensive work was superb.

95gerog wrote:Manny didn't just walk fwd, he was fantastic at cutting off the ring off, however floyd wriggled out the corners and got on his bike in an even greater fashion. It was artistic from both fighters. Even PACmans defensive work was superb.

I'm going to disagree with you there I thought manny was poor at cutting Floyd off for the majority of the fight, he was far too slow on on his feet.

There were some point where he managed to trap floyd in the corner, which is an achievement but mayweather just moved back out at will.

Finn wrote:

95gerog wrote:Manny didn't just walk fwd, he was fantastic at cutting off the ring off, however floyd wriggled out the corners and got on his bike in an even greater fashion. It was artistic from both fighters. Even PACmans defensive work was superb.

I'm going to disagree with you there I thought manny was poor at cutting Floyd off for the majority of the fight, he was far too slow on on his feet.

There were some point where he managed to trap floyd in the corner, which is an achievement but mayweather just moved back out at will.

Agreed,Pacquiao never cut off the ring effectively enough,he was pretty plodding and basic,even when he had Mayweather trapped in the corner he never let his hands go,Floyd almost always moved left off the ropes yet Manny couldn't land the right hook,whether that was to do with an injury,I don't know but he never really let any of his big lefts go either

Pacquiao has to take the lion share of the blame for people(not me) not enjoying the fight,being busy was his way to win and he wasn't, I doubt he's ever threw fewer punches over 12 rounds and no one could have predicted Floyd would have out punched him

Every once in a while, these fights come along where several drawn rounds on paper belie one boxer's control. Mayweather wasn't winning those rounds, but he was stopping Pacquiao from winning them.

If your opponent has you dancing to his imposed stalemates, there's an argument in favour of rewarding his psychological vantage. I was always a fan of Eubank Snr for it, but if I'm honest, he was lucky on the cards more than once. Punchin's punchin', after all, and that's how it should be done, regardless of the cut of one's fighting jib.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/floydm ... -draw.html

Jeff Powell defends his scoring in the Daily Mail. He actually had PAC up 4 rounds to 2 at the half way point.

Coco wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/floydm ... -draw.html

Jeff Powell defends his scoring in the Daily Mail. He actually had PAC up 4 rounds to 2 at the half way point.

Has to be clickbait

Agree. It reflects badly Pac. It reflects badly on both of them.

One thing about scoring Mayweather fights. He always looks in control and even when rounds go against him he usually still looks in control.

I also think at ringside it's different. I have watched rounds and scored against Mayweather then on the replay realised that Mayweather's head going back wasn't the effect of a punch, just him moving away by a fraction of an inch at the last moment. Then I change my score for the round. People ringside can't do that.

I gave Pac 3 rounds. Floyd was incredible, consistently making Manny miss, and landing the better punches.

Coco wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/floydm ... -draw.html

Jeff Powell defends his scoring in the Daily Mail. He actually had PAC up 4 rounds to 2 at the half way point.

He doesn't actually defend his scorecard in that piece...e.g. explain why he scored certain key rounds the way he did (such as where he was against the consensus scoring of the judges). He just claimed neither deserved to win.

The piece is more about how the event perhaps wasn't as big as it threatened to be.

I had it 116-112 for Mayweather. Who I thought pulled away in the second half of the fight.

However I was very surprised to see the punch stats. I haven't rewatched the fight yet, but I can't believe Mayweather threw more punches in the fight. Landed for sure, but threw more, that really surprised me, and doesn't seem reflective of the fight i watched on the night.

Coco wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/floydm ... -draw.html

Jeff Powell defends his scoring in the Daily Mail. He actually had PAC up 4 rounds to 2 at the half way point.

Because he was up 4-2 at the halfway point, Dan Rafael had the same score, but ended up giving Floyd 6/6 in the 2nd half. I'm not sure how anyone can give Floyd 9 & 10. Some "Willie Pep won a round with throwing a shot" mythical work right there.

I can appreciate non purists not liking May weather's style and perhaps his lifestyle outside the ring.
So you think Manny won the fight?

Ricky_ wrote:

Coco wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/floydm ... -draw.html

Jeff Powell defends his scoring in the Daily Mail. He actually had PAC up 4 rounds to 2 at the half way point.

Because he was up 4-2 at the halfway point, Dan Rafael had the same score, but ended up giving Floyd 6/6 in the 2nd half. I'm not sure how anyone can give Floyd 9 & 10. Some "Willie Pep won a round with throwing a shot" mythical work right there.

Im going to pull you up on this Ricky because you are really annoying me - Pac won the 10th fairly clearly but you would have to be hugely biased to score him the 9th.

Round 9 starts at 42 mins 30 second
https://youtu.be/WAC4G-HjJO8
Explain to me how Pac won that round bearing in mind the number of straight right hands down the pipe he takes, not even including the landing jabs and left hooks.

Here are the punch stats -


Manny lands 6 to floyds 11, Manny lands a couple of eye catchers then either misses or hits his gloves.

bit of trivia, apologies if someone has already posted it but the night of the fight dressing room weigh in shows that Pac was the heavier guy in the ring as he weighed 152 and Mayweather 149

tobyh5 wrote:bit of trivia, apologies if someone has already posted it but the night of the fight dressing room weigh in shows that Pac was the heavier guy in the ring as he weighed 152 and Mayweather 149

Surprises me that because they said manny was able to eat before the weigh in.

Boxerbeetle wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

Nightmare Roy wrote:I watched it with 5 guys,we are all big PAC fans who dislike FM. None of us had any complaints, he won 2 rounds for sure, 4 at the most. These people saying PAC won do not understand how a boxing match is scored.

Defense
Ring Generalship
Aggression
Clean Punching

Too many people get bogged down by Sky's deplorable commentry fawning over Floyd's elusiveness (legal and illegal). He offered nothing in the way of offense. Zero. By his own admission post fight he just kept moving and sticking the jab out. Defense accounrs for 1/4 of scoring. This is the fight game at the end of the day, not dressage or figure skating. It's time judges scored fights properly and reward action not inaction. if Pac employed the same tactics we'd have 12 rounds repeated of the first 3 mins of Haye v Audley.

But if you were to continue that very simplistic argument, Floyd was also superior in Ring Generalship & Clean Punching, so added to his Defence that makes 3/4. Which was pretty much reflected in the scorecards.

Actually it's 4 of 4 - it is EFFECTIVE aggression which is meant to be rewarded in scoring, not just wading forward. Pacquaio's aggression, aside from a handful of instances over the 12 rounds, was pretty much ineffective.

Ezzard wrote:Agree. It reflects badly Pac. It reflects badly on both of them.

One thing about scoring Mayweather fights. He always looks in control and even when rounds go against him he usually still looks in control.

I also think at ringside it's different. I have watched rounds and scored against Mayweather then on the replay realised that Mayweather's head going back wasn't the effect of a punch, just him moving away by a fraction of an inch at the last moment. Then I change my score for the round. People ringside can't do that.

Very true, - scoring at ringside can be challenging, you often have a poor view, or the fighter has his back turned , the TV reveals angles that ringside judges never get to see. Also the sound of punches landing on gloves or arms can be deceiving when you cannot see properly, especially if the crowd react as if they landed.

I've often thought that judges should be isolated from crowd noise with headphones.

G0mez wrote:"Effective" aggression

Walking forwards and throwing (or not throwing in the case of Saturday) is not effective.

Floyd was catching him coming in with the fast left , and spearing him with that rakish right hand all night. He brought back those Marquez nightmares for Manny.

I think the injury is legit, but they're really dining out on it. Because at first he said 'I won the fight' then in the presser after said 'I lost because of my shoulder'

It's nonsense like this, when people who are supposed to be respectable and know the sport post utter garbage - that makes me always pray for a conclusive ending.

A different view is fine, but absolute incompetence / blindness is exactly that.

I think his team realised that claiming he should of won was going to make him look a fool, and decided to dredge up what was an ongoing injury as the reason, despite the fact that in was clearly not serious enough to hamper him throwing the right hand throughout.

They will now take him out of circulation - his injury post surgery - if indeed there ever is any, will heal quicker than expected, he will have a tune-up against someone they figure he can beat in easy fashion (though I think that they may find that a little harder than they think as I am not sure Pacman's heart will be in it after this fight - what has he left to fight on for - he knows damned well he cannot beat Mayweather) - and then try and hype up the rematch with talk of him now being 100% fit.

Time is a great healer, both of torn rotator cuffs, and reputations. In a year they will be trying to guage interest in a rematch, and figure out if they can do it again, for a smaller, but still significant pot.