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Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 14 Jul 2015, 09:35
by palooka
If Frazier pressured Foreman he'd be laid out flat twice a round 10 times out of ten. Ali had the power of a pea shooter compared to Foreman's bazooka's.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 14 Jul 2015, 11:34
by elmersalsa
palooka wrote:If Frazier pressured Foreman he'd be laid out flat twice a round 10 times out of ten. Ali had the power of a pea shooter compared to Foreman's bazooka's.
Yeah, in any other night, except at MSG on March 8, 1971. I have not seen nothing like it. The best performance of all time in estimation
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 14 Jul 2015, 15:30
by keithmoonhangover
elmersalsa wrote:I see Frazier winning because of the relentless pressure.
No, you see Frazier winning because of the relentless biased.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 15 Jul 2015, 17:03
by yancey
keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:I see Frazier winning because of the relentless pressure.
No, you see Frazier winning because of the relentless biased.
Better than relentless stupidity, one would think.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 15 Jul 2015, 17:05
by keithmoonhangover
yancey wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:I see Frazier winning because of the relentless pressure.
No, you see Frazier winning because of the relentless biased.
Better than relentless stupidity, one would think.
Is that aimed at me or Elmo?
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 20 Jul 2015, 16:01
by GPTM1403
Cutman Scabbers wrote:Rexob wrote:Tyson vs Spinks
Fury Vs Klit
You think Tyson was at his best vs. Spinks or vs. Berbick?
I'd argue he peaked with Bruno - neither Spinks nor Williams offered any offence and were there to be hit. Against Bruno he got absolutely buzzed and just kept coming and coming. Fought a much bigger man with serious power in both hands who was himself determined to stay upright but Tyson just wasn't going to be stopped at that stage.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 20:00
by ClivePatrickLyons
keithmoonhangover wrote:elmersalsa wrote:I see Frazier winning because of the relentless pressure.
No, you see Frazier winning because of the relentless biased.
It must be a BIASED opinion and/or elmersalsa last name is Frazier...............I would like to know what creature on planet earth
with relentless pressure could back a 23/24 year old Foreman up and give him a ASS WOOPING :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? A RANDY AFRICAN ELEPHANT
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 21 Jul 2015, 21:03
by elmersalsa
Some people will never understand boxing.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 07:24
by yancey
elmersalsa wrote:Some people will never understand boxing.
This is correct.
Some see one result so in their minds it will always be the same result over and over. They can't take it any further than that.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 12:42
by Syntax Error
Interesting thread.
What about Roy Jones Jr -v- James Toney?
Roy moved up & totally outclassed a prime Toney who is one of the greatest fighters of the last 25 years or so.
I can't think of another SMW that would have beaten Roy Jones Jr of that night.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 13:45
by palooka
The Pryor from the first Arguello bout would have been tough to beat by any light welter in history.
The Olivares that beat Rose for the bantamweight crown would also have been unbeatable at bantam - maybe Zarate could hold him off but I'm not sure.
The Holyfield that beat Tyson the first bout would have been very hard to beat by any heavyweight his size - he was a man possessed.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 14:23
by elmersalsa
Syntax Error wrote:Interesting thread.
What about Roy Jones Jr -v- James Toney?
Roy moved up & totally outclassed a prime Toney who is one of the greatest fighters of the last 25 years or so.
I can't think of another SMW that would have beaten Roy Jones Jr of that night.
At 168lbs, nobody beats Super Roy that night. Great call.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 14:27
by elmersalsa
[quote="palooka"]The Pryor from the first Arguello bout would have been tough to beat by any light welter in history.
The Olivares that beat Rose for the bantamweight crown would also have been unbeatable at bantam - maybe Zarate could hold him off but I'm not sure.
The Holyfield that beat Tyson the first bout would have been very hard to beat by any heavyweight his size - he was a man possessed.[/quote]
Great calls about the great Aaron Pryor. He fought the best fight of his life against one of boxing's greatest champions.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 14:32
by palooka
elmersalsa wrote:palooka wrote:The Pryor from the first Arguello bout would have been tough to beat by any light welter in history.
The Olivares that beat Rose for the bantamweight crown would also have been unbeatable at bantam - maybe Zarate could hold him off but I'm not sure.
The Holyfield that beat Tyson the first bout would have been very hard to beat by any heavyweight his size - he was a man possessed.
Great calls about the great Aaron Pryor. He fought the best fight of his life against one of boxing's greatest champions.
thanks, Pryor really mixed it up that night, he boxed well, punched hard, mauled and wrestled effectively - he kept Alexis reacting, it must have been mentally tiring as well as physically.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 14:51
by Seamus
I don't believe in the title of the thread, but off hand Lionel Rose's performance against Fighting Harada was amazing.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 22 Jul 2015, 16:45
by GPTM1403
Syntax Error wrote:Interesting thread.
What about Roy Jones Jr -v- James Toney?
Roy moved up & totally outclassed a prime Toney who is one of the greatest fighters of the last 25 years or so.
I can't think of another SMW that would have beaten Roy Jones Jr of that night.
Jones was untouchable for most of the good part of his career, people can praise Mayweather all they like but Jones had the defence and the offence. Totally different class for years.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 27 Jul 2015, 02:13
by L.A. kidd
jerry quarry vs mac foster..... quarry was great that night, unbeatable.
rocky Marciano vs jersey joe walcot first fight.... rocky would not be denied.
Carmen basilio vs sugar ray robinson first fight.... carmine wasn't to be denied.
sugar ray vs jake lamotta last fight.........the greatest the sugarman has ever looked.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 27 Jul 2015, 11:45
by Counter-puncher
palooka wrote:The Pryor from the first Arguello bout would have been tough to beat by any light welter in history.
The Olivares that beat Rose for the bantamweight crown would also have been unbeatable at bantam - maybe Zarate could hold him off but I'm not sure.
.
both great calls. i think Olivares would chop Zarate down like a tree, FWIW. not too sure of many
superbantams he wouldn't hand a beating to, either. i think he does Wilfredo Gomez over, to name one.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 02:36
by knockouts67
elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:
Explain to me what Frazier could do in the ring to beat Foreman. What would he do differently style-wise to win?
For starters, in my view, my view only, the great Smokin' Joe LEFT IT ALL HE HAD IN THE FOTC @ MSG. That fight was BRUTAL. I don't know how Ali and Frazier withstand a huge deal of pounding. What kept them up? I don't know. Maybe it was the real hatred that they had for each other. I don't know what would be. When Ali got up from that left hook, tired in the final round, it was REMARKABLE. What made him get up? I really don't know. Another fighter would have said, "Forget about it, count until ten, ref".
Secondly, Frazier in Jamaica was an EASY TARGET. He didn't had the bob and weave speed. In the FOTC, Ali missed a whole lot of punches. Frazier was a DIFFICULT TARGET TO HIT.
I don't think that the great George Foreman would've stand THE TERRIFIC PACE AND THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE that Frazier put on him. Big George was not a great inside fighter. Once Frazier is inside, it's all Smokin' Joe. Foreman stamina in the 70s was another handicap. Would've he had the pace to fight like that? Remember, Ali was much faster and he missed. Now, Foreman?
You must be drinking! Frazier fought an Ali that had a couple fights in 4 years---Foreman knocks Fraizier out anytime!!
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 02:37
by knockouts67
knockouts67 wrote:elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:
Explain to me what Frazier could do in the ring to beat Foreman. What would he do differently style-wise to win?
For starters, in my view, my view only, the great Smokin' Joe LEFT IT ALL HE HAD IN THE FOTC @ MSG. That fight was BRUTAL. I don't know how Ali and Frazier withstand a huge deal of pounding. What kept them up? I don't know. Maybe it was the real hatred that they had for each other. I don't know what would be. When Ali got up from that left hook, tired in the final round, it was REMARKABLE. What made him get up? I really don't know. Another fighter would have said, "Forget about it, count until ten, ref".
Secondly, Frazier in Jamaica was an EASY TARGET. He didn't had the bob and weave speed. In the FOTC, Ali missed a whole lot of punches. Frazier was a DIFFICULT TARGET TO HIT.
I don't think that the great George Foreman would've stand THE TERRIFIC PACE AND THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE that Frazier put on him. Big George was not a great inside fighter. Once Frazier is inside, it's all Smokin' Joe. Foreman stamina in the 70s was another handicap. Would've he had the pace to fight like that? Remember, Ali was much faster and he missed. Now, Foreman?
You must be drinking! Frazier fought an Ali that had a couple fights in 4 years---Foreman knocks Fraizier out anytime!!
Frazier---spellcheck
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 02:39
by knockouts67
knockouts67 wrote:elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:
Explain to me what Frazier could do in the ring to beat Foreman. What would he do differently style-wise to win?
For starters, in my view, my view only, the great Smokin' Joe LEFT IT ALL HE HAD IN THE FOTC @ MSG. That fight was BRUTAL. I don't know how Ali and Frazier withstand a huge deal of pounding. What kept them up? I don't know. Maybe it was the real hatred that they had for each other. I don't know what would be. When Ali got up from that left hook, tired in the final round, it was REMARKABLE. What made him get up? I really don't know. Another fighter would have said, "Forget about it, count until ten, ref".
Secondly, Frazier in Jamaica was an EASY TARGET. He didn't had the bob and weave speed. In the FOTC, Ali missed a whole lot of punches. Frazier was a DIFFICULT TARGET TO HIT.
I don't think that the great George Foreman would've stand THE TERRIFIC PACE AND THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE that Frazier put on him. Big George was not a great inside fighter. Once Frazier is inside, it's all Smokin' Joe. Foreman stamina in the 70s was another handicap. Would've he had the pace to fight like that? Remember, Ali was much faster and he missed. Now, Foreman?
You must be drinking! Frazier fought an Ali that had a couple fights in 4 years---Foreman knocks Fraizier out anytime!!
Frazier---spellcheck
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 09:42
by klompton
Syntax Error wrote:Interesting thread.
What about Roy Jones Jr -v- James Toney?
Roy moved up & totally outclassed a prime Toney who is one of the greatest fighters of the last 25 years or so.
I can't think of another SMW that would have beaten Roy Jones Jr of that night.
Toney fought the same lethargic fight against Roy that he did against Tiberi and Thadzi, were those guys unbeatable too?
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 11:35
by elmersalsa
knockouts67 wrote:elmersalsa wrote:keithmoonhangover wrote:
Explain to me what Frazier could do in the ring to beat Foreman. What would he do differently style-wise to win?
For starters, in my view, my view only, the great Smokin' Joe LEFT IT ALL HE HAD IN THE FOTC @ MSG. That fight was BRUTAL. I don't know how Ali and Frazier withstand a huge deal of pounding. What kept them up? I don't know. Maybe it was the real hatred that they had for each other. I don't know what would be. When Ali got up from that left hook, tired in the final round, it was REMARKABLE. What made him get up? I really don't know. Another fighter would have said, "Forget about it, count until ten, ref".
Secondly, Frazier in Jamaica was an EASY TARGET. He didn't had the bob and weave speed. In the FOTC, Ali missed a whole lot of punches. Frazier was a DIFFICULT TARGET TO HIT.
I don't think that the great George Foreman would've stand THE TERRIFIC PACE AND THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE that Frazier put on him. Big George was not a great inside fighter. Once Frazier is inside, it's all Smokin' Joe. Foreman stamina in the 70s was another handicap. Would've he had the pace to fight like that? Remember, Ali was much faster and he missed. Now, Foreman?
You must be drinking! Frazier fought an Ali that had a couple fights in 4 years---Foreman knocks Fraizier out anytime!!
I wasn't drinking when I saw Smokin' Joe whipping that azz on March 8, 1971. You can talk about 3-year layoff that The Greatest had at the time. He didn't seem to me that he had any rust. Give the great Joe Frazier CREDIT FOR THAT.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 11:37
by elmersalsa
knockouts67 wrote:
For starters, in my view, my view only, the great Smokin' Joe LEFT IT ALL HE HAD IN THE FOTC @ MSG. That fight was BRUTAL. I don't know how Ali and Frazier withstand a huge deal of pounding. What kept them up? I don't know. Maybe it was the real hatred that they had for each other. I don't know what would be. When Ali got up from that left hook, tired in the final round, it was REMARKABLE. What made him get up? I really don't know. Another fighter would have said, "Forget about it, count until ten, ref".
Secondly, Frazier in Jamaica was an EASY TARGET. He didn't had the bob and weave speed. In the FOTC, Ali missed a whole lot of punches. Frazier was a DIFFICULT TARGET TO HIT.
I don't think that the great George Foreman would've stand THE TERRIFIC PACE AND THE RELENTLESS PRESSURE that Frazier put on him. Big George was not a great inside fighter. Once Frazier is inside, it's all Smokin' Joe. Foreman stamina in the 70s was another handicap. Would've he had the pace to fight like that? Remember, Ali was much faster and he missed. Now, Foreman?
You must be drinking! Frazier fought an Ali that had a couple fights in 4 years---Foreman knocks Fraizier out anytime!![/quote]
Frazier---spellcheck[/quote]
Frazier whipped that azz! That is all to it.
Re: Boxing's Greatest Performances: On Those Nights, These Guys Could Never Be Defeated
Posted: 29 Jul 2015, 11:52
by Seamus
Frazier sure did ! But Ali came back and won the series 2 out of 3