BoxRec

Freddie Dawson

Bodyshot3 wrote:Lionel Rose from Australia also worth a shout...beat some very good men, including our own Alan Rudkin, and first aboriginal world champ.

Lionel's time at the top was short but impressive. Very tough era.

Prior to Lionel an Aboriginal MW Dave Sands was a strong contender for the title then held by Sugar Ray Robinson. Unfortunately Sands died before he had a chance at the title.... he did however twice beat Bobo Olsen who famously proclaimed, after winning the title vacated by Robinson, that if he were alive the title would surely belong to Sands.

Virgil Hill - Doesn't get talked about a great deal, but he was a great fighter.

Syntax Error wrote:Virgil Hill - Doesn't get talked about a great deal, but he was a great fighter.

I think he was very good, but not a great fighter. I don't think he belongs in the IBHOF. Id he wasn't American, I don't think he'd be in there.

If Hill gets in, then Dariusz Michalczewski should be in.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:Virgil Hill - Doesn't get talked about a great deal, but he was a great fighter.

I think he was very good, but not a great fighter. I don't think he belongs in the IBHOF. Id he wasn't American, I don't think he'd be in there.

If Hill gets in, then Dariusz Michalczewski should be in.

I think hill is an easy IBHOF pick he lost one fight against hearns up to he was 33 /34

stevedoc wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:Virgil Hill - Doesn't get talked about a great deal, but he was a great fighter.

I think he was very good, but not a great fighter. I don't think he belongs in the IBHOF. Id he wasn't American, I don't think he'd be in there.

If Hill gets in, then Dariusz Michalczewski should be in.

I think hill is an easy IBHOF pick he lost one fight against hearns up to he was 33 /34

Hi opponents were not of a high quality. I personally think Dariusz Michalczewski's record is as good if not better than Hill's.

Bob Foster was the main man at light heavyweight for some time and by all accounts a superb champ....fought and beat some top men outside the US like Fourie in South Africa, Chris Finnegan in London and took the title from Dick Tiger.

A good reign despite also trying to make it as a heavyweight contender and coming up short.......he put in a challenge to Ali in between fighting Finnegan and Fourie!

Some of the light heavies like Foster, Moorer before he moved up and Hill seem to get a raw deal for me in terms of their overall profile....seems strange because it has always been a division that has delivered some classic scraps.

Bodyshot3 wrote:Bob Foster was the main man at light heavyweight for some time and by all accounts a superb champ....fought and beat some top men outside the US like Fourie in South Africa, Chris Finnegan in London and took the title from Dick Tiger.

A good reign despite also trying to make it as a heavyweight contender and coming up short.......he put in a challenge to Ali in between fighting Finnegan and Fourie!

Some of the light heavies like Foster, Moorer before he moved up and Hill seem to get a raw deal for me in terms of their overall profile....seems strange because it has always been a division that has delivered some classic scraps.

Moored was very destructive at light heavy, he just went for the kill straight away - imagine a Foster v Moored bout?

Moorer was very destructive at light heavy, he just went for the kill straight away - imagine a Foster v Moorer bout?

Yup, that would have been an absolute belter.
Foster by all accounts was not a man to be messed with and Moorer for a short while was a terror at that weight.

Moorer in general is a bit forgotten and under-valued in my opinion...he was a successful two weight champion and bloody exciting to watch.. but the Foreman 'upset' fight and second fight with Holyfield have always undercut how he is viewed.

Seem to remember he was a lucky lad against Axel Schulz as well...a very rare case of a German fighter not perhaps getting the rub of the green at home?

In hindsight I think Moorer was a champion of some note.

The great Ike Williams

A top 30 atg p4p in my view

orbtastic wrote:Isn't Valdes the only person to knock down and stop Brisco?

Lopez was pretty good for a period, the first Lockridge fight was great, Ring FOTY? Lockridge is very underrated, he had good skills, solid chin and was a decent puncher, he just had a number of decisions go against him.

Lopez was a bit overshadowed at the time by both Mitchell (who went on to beat him) and Nelson, then later, Hernandez.

Valdez is the only person to stop Briscoe. Not sure if he is the only man to knock Briscoe down.

Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez was only stopped once during his career, and it was early on. I believe that he was only 18 years old in his tenth fight when he was stopped by a boxer named Rudy Escobar in Columbia.

Valdez was a hard puncher (41 KO's) and went 15 rounds with Carlos Monzon twice. Rocky knocked Monzon down in their second fight. I read someplace that it was only the second time that Carlos had been knocked down.

I wonder if he could have given Hagler a tough time? I am surprised that he lost to Hugo Corro. Maybe those fights with Monzon took something out of him. Age may have been starting to catch up with him also. Rodrigo Valdez was 31 when he fought Corro.

Manuel Ortiz and Benny Lynch. Both, to me, were Very underrated

Carlos Zarate cut through a lot of keen bantamweights with some aplomb, he had a 7 year break and returned with some success losing to Fenech and lasting 10 with Zaragoza for the vacant superbantam title at age 37 - Zarate had a 90% knockout percentage.

palooka wrote:Carlos Zarate cut through a lot of keen bantamweights with some aplomb, he had a 7 year break and returned with some success losing to Fenech and lasting 10 with Zaragoza for the vacant superbantam title at age 37 - Zarate had a 90% knockout percentage.

That great fighter, Carlos Zarate, was a beast at bantamweight

elmersalsa wrote:

palooka wrote:Carlos Zarate cut through a lot of keen bantamweights with some aplomb, he had a 7 year break and returned with some success losing to Fenech and lasting 10 with Zaragoza for the vacant superbantam title at age 37 - Zarate had a 90% knockout percentage.

That great fighter, Carlos Zarate, was a beast at bantamweight

(I've never watched the Lupe Pintor bout, is it worth watching and did Lupe deserve the decision?)

Valdez very underrated.

palooka wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

palooka wrote:Carlos Zarate cut through a lot of keen bantamweights with some aplomb, he had a 7 year break and returned with some success losing to Fenech and lasting 10 with Zaragoza for the vacant superbantam title at age 37 - Zarate had a 90% knockout percentage.

That great fighter, Carlos Zarate, was a beast at bantamweight

(I've never watched the Lupe Pintor bout, is it worth watching and did Lupe deserve the decision?)

I haven't seen that fight, yet. It was controversial

Tinnie wrote:

Bodyshot3 wrote:Lionel Rose from Australia also worth a shout...beat some very good men, including our own Alan Rudkin, and first aboriginal world champ.

Lionel's time at the top was short but impressive. Very tough era.

Prior to Lionel an Aboriginal MW Dave Sands was a strong contender for the title then held by Sugar Ray Robinson. Unfortunately Sands died before he had a chance at the title.... he did however twice beat Bobo Olsen who famously proclaimed, after winning the title vacated by Robinson, that if he were alive the title would surely belong to Sands.

Great to see 2 former great Aussie's fighter's get a mention Sands climbed to number 1 Middleweight contender in the 50's when tragically killed he was 26 years old he had something like 110 fight's and lost only 10 Rose was a boxing genius in his prime had terrible trouble making the bantam limit while world champ was like a lamb led to the slaughter by the time he met the fearsome punching Mexican legend Ruben Olivares when he was offered the biggest money ever for a bantamweight he was ko'd in 5 was one of the rare champ's that smoked a pipe

Lionel should be commended for lasting five. Olivares produced one of the most destructive performances ive ever seen and to Lionels credit despite being completely drained he stuck in there and even tried to counter attack. It would have taken a very special fighter to beat Olivares that night.

Luis Rodriguez
Dick tiger
Ike Williams
Stevie Johnston
Panama Al Brown
Mike mccallum
Jose legra

Tinnie wrote:Lionel should be commended for lasting five. Olivares produced one of the most destructive performances ive ever seen and to Lionels credit despite being completely drained he stuck in there and even tried to counter attack. It would have taken a very special fighter to beat Olivares that night.

he was a ferocious hooking monster with enormous stamina and brilliant technique. His left hook was so natural. he didn't look like a trained boxer he looked as though he was born to fight.

I think we are to the point that Mike McCallum has been called underrated so many times that he is now overrated.

Ambling Alp II wrote:I think we are to the point that Mike McCallum has been called underrated so many times that he is now overrated.

The great Mike McCallum is the most underrated fighter ever in my lifetime. A complete boxer.

Ambling Alp II wrote:I think we are to the point that Mike McCallum has been called underrated so many times that he is now overrated.

Quite.

Mike McCallum is far from underrated.

McCallum is so highly rated that many folk have invested their careers in peddling the notion that the Big 4 all ducked him!

Four all time ATGs who all fought each other, sometimes more than once were apparently scared to fight Mike McCallum, if they are to be believed

Someone who is underrated does not have that said of them, ever.

McCallum is a genuine great & everybody knows it.

palooka wrote:

Tinnie wrote:Lionel should be commended for lasting five. Olivares produced one of the most destructive performances ive ever seen and to Lionels credit despite being completely drained he stuck in there and even tried to counter attack. It would have taken a very special fighter to beat Olivares that night.

he was a ferocious hooking monster with enormous stamina and brilliant technique. His left hook was so natural. he didn't look like a trained boxer he looked as though he was born to fight.