BoxRec

Badhusker wrote:Apologies about the poster child comment, I must have misread or misunderstood.

My whole point on Wilder is that he is just taking another tune up for Povetkin, and any decent challenger will hopefully help him gain more experience. He has only had one title defense. If he continues to seek out soft opponents then I would say he deserves all the criticism he gets. He has been a pro for years now, but keep in mind he had very little amateur experience. Probably has sixty fights total now including amateurs. A lot of these guys have twice that in amateurs alone. A couple years ago he was criticized for not fighting guys like Charr and Johnson. Now he gets criticized for thinking about fighting them or someone at their level. I guess that comes with a belt, and the bar being raised - and rightfully so. I want to see him vs the best as much as anyone, and will be very critical of him if it continues.

I have no problem with Wilder taking 2-3 tune ups before facing Povetkin, but I think Wilder's team should've chosen him opponents than resemble Povetkin's size and style more than 6'4'' Molina or 6'5'' Duhaupas. But who knows, may be they are targeting unification with Wlad rather than mandatory defense against Povetkin? Much riskier fight but much bigger reward also, and I don't think how people can critisize him if he chooses that root.

What's the line on this??

Duhaupas is a live dog!

Badhusker wrote:

crusader wrote:I am the poster child of posts being expunged from the CS? LOL

Leapai was a terrible challenger, but he was a mandatory so I'm okay with Wlad fighting him, just as I won't slate Wilder for facing his mandatory in order to keep his belt. Duhaupas did beat Charr in a close fight, but he lost earlier this year to a guy just on the fringes of the top 15 and in his only other bout of note lost unanimously to Pianeta, who was probably top 20 at best; that's why it was an upset that he beat Charr even though the latter was coming off a hard loss and was clearly nothing special. It's really laughable that you're playing off Duhaupas as someone who is beyond criticism as a world title challenger when he's at best an EBU level guy who has already fallen short there multiple times. I've said since he beat Charr that he'd be a good test for up and comers like Joshua and Parker, each of whom I'd expect to beat him, but I never thought he'd land a world title fight....though maybe I shouldn't be surprised at this considering that Wilder's had 34 bouts yet only fought a single top 10 opponent.

By the way, Charr didn't get a shot at Wlad last year. He fought Povetkin in the latter's comeback from the 119-104 Wlad drubbing and was dominated and heavily knocked out. He also fought old Vitali 3 years ago and was easily stopped in 4, so he's fallen way short in all his bouts with top opponents and has never beaten anyone better than a gatekeeper in Johnson.

Guys like you seem to thrive on denigrating guys that are up and coming, instead of just saying its a pretty good match up for him, considering he will be taking on the #2 guy in the world next year.

Or I can look at the fact that he's been a pro nearly 7 years, has had 34 fights, is a major belt holder and one of the highest ranked fighters in the division, yet has fought only 1 top 10 opponent, 2 top 25 opponents (which includes the lone top 10er), and has consistently faced opposition who had no business fighting him. If he faces Povetkin he'll be fighting pretty much the best opponent he can fight other than Wlad, and if he beats him it will in my eyes probably shoot him up to the #2 spot in the division, but those things have yet to happen.

Oh ya, this tablet is horrible to type long posts with

Apologies about the poster child comment, I must have misread or misunderstood.

My whole point on Wilder is that he is just taking another tune up for Povetkin, and any decent challenger will hopefully help him gain more experience. He has only had one title defense. If he continues to seek out soft opponents then I would say he deserves all the criticism he gets. He has been a pro for years now, but keep in mind he had very little amateur experience. Probably has sixty fights total now including amateurs. A lot of these guys have twice that in amateurs alone. A couple years ago he was criticized for not fighting guys like Charr and Johnson. Now he gets criticized for thinking about fighting them or someone at their level. I guess that comes with a belt, and the bar being raised - and rightfully so. I want to see him vs the best as much as anyone, and will be very critical of him if it continues.

You can look at it from the perspective that it's just his second defense and therefore it's a fine match, but to me the more appropriate perspective, because of its consideration of his overall level of opposition, is that it's an underwhelming bout since it will be his 35th over seven years and yet he'll still only have fought one guy in the top ten and I'd say just three guys in the top thirty, including his lone top ten foe Stiverne.

Duhaupas already had his level proven by losing unanimously to guys like Pianeta and Teper (just two fights ago), but Wilder's opposition has been so bad that he's still among his best opponents. Now some people seem to think that makes it a decent match-up, but to me it's more of a which poo smells worse type of thing (Duhaupas isn't poo, but he's EBU level at best and as mentioned would be far more fitting as a test for prospects than a top 5 fighter with a world title). Actually, Duhaupas reminds me a bit of Stiverne in that his reputation is based almost entirely on beating one opponent who never cut it at top level, which has worked to cover up fights that clearly showed pronounced limitations.

Wilder has been matched so carefully that I wouldn't be shocked if he were steered away from Povetkin and fought another Haymon fighter for an inaugural PBC HW title. His matchmaking has consistently been dross, which to me suggests that his team has little confidence in him and may be very hesitant to match him with someone like Povetkin when it can be kept in-house against much lesser foes. This is partially why I'm reluctant to give him a tune-up pass, but if he does end up facing Povetkin I'll recognize that he's fighting an elite opponent and that it significantly boosts his resume in terms of quality of opposition.

As for his experience, Deontay had about forty amateur fights (more than Jennings and Fury for example) at a very high level, getting to attend major international events in which he fought some of the best amateurs in the world. I can understand a slightly slower approach because he picked up the sport relatively late, but even upon turning pro he already had higher quality experience than most, and many of the opponents he faced were awful (and in Dustin Nichol's case the fattest person I've seen box) and had no business stepping in the ring with him.

Cutman Scabbers wrote:What's the line on this??

Duhaupas is a live dog!

Duhaupas has shown no power against decent opponents and has unanimously fallen short in two of his three bouts with EBU level opposition--the best opposition he's faced--so if he's live it doesn't reflect well on Deontay.

he took tepers big shots on like that plumber called price, fell to the 1st one

I have said for a few years now that I have understood why they brought Wilder along slowly. He was late getting into boxing, and with only 28 amateur bouts, had a lot to learn, and still does. Even with 34 fights in the pros, he has only 79 rounds. Compare to another guy with limited amateur experience, Jennings with 20 fights and 114 rounds in the pros. Tyson Fury with 24 bouts and 134 rounds. Granted, you get more rounds with better competition.

He has one title defense, and didn't look great in that, testing his newly healed broken hand, so this is why he is taking another tune-up before he fights Povetkin. People want a top 20 guy for him, but then the top 20 guy isn't a good enough top 20 guy for a tune up?

His weak opposition in the past is obvious, and no one has bragged about that. We will find out more about him in his next fight and ultimately with Povetkin.

Badhusker wrote:I have said for a few years now that I have understood why they brought Wilder along slowly. He was late getting into boxing, and with only 28 amateur bouts, had a lot to learn, and still does. Even with 34 fights in the pros, he has only 79 rounds. Compare to another guy with limited amateur experience, Jennings with 20 fights and 114 rounds in the pros. Tyson Fury with 24 bouts and 134 rounds. Granted, you get more rounds with better competition.

He has one title defense, and didn't look great in that, testing his newly healed broken hand, so this is why he is taking another tune-up before he fights Povetkin. People want a top 20 guy for him, but then the top 20 guy isn't a good enough top 20 guy for a tune up?

His weak opposition in the past is obvious, and no one has bragged about that. We will find out more about him in his next fight and ultimately with Povetkin.

There are no adequate excuses for Wilder's path at this point. There can be only one reason; he is being protected by his team like an overly protective mother. The mother knows best.

Wilder is a walking KO waiting to happen.

Chance of a lifetime for Duhaupas.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him win.

Cutman Scabbers wrote:Chance of a lifetime for Duhaupas.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him win.

We can only hope that the masquerade ends here.

Tanzio wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I have said for a few years now that I have understood why they brought Wilder along slowly. He was late getting into boxing, and with only 28 amateur bouts, had a lot to learn, and still does. Even with 34 fights in the pros, he has only 79 rounds. Compare to another guy with limited amateur experience, Jennings with 20 fights and 114 rounds in the pros. Tyson Fury with 24 bouts and 134 rounds. Granted, you get more rounds with better competition.

He has one title defense, and didn't look great in that, testing his newly healed broken hand, so this is why he is taking another tune-up before he fights Povetkin. People want a top 20 guy for him, but then the top 20 guy isn't a good enough top 20 guy for a tune up?

His weak opposition in the past is obvious, and no one has bragged about that. We will find out more about him in his next fight and ultimately with Povetkin.

There are no adequate excuses for Wilder's path at this point. There can be only one reason; he is being protected by his team like an overly protective mother. The mother knows best.

Wilder is a walking KO waiting to happen.

I used to think the same about a young Tommy Hearns. Of course Wilder doesn't have the skills that Hearns had, but the spindly legs, good jab, and powerful right hand. Hearns did have a vulnerable chin in a few fights. We will see how Wilder turns out.

If you care to, take a look at Hearn's record up until he fights SRL. probably one recognizable name in his first 28 or so fights. Not saying they will have similar careers. Sometimes boxers are judged too early.

Badhusker wrote:I have said for a few years now that I have understood why they brought Wilder along slowly. He was late getting into boxing, and with only 28 amateur bouts, had a lot to learn, and still does. Even with 34 fights in the pros, he has only 79 rounds. Compare to another guy with limited amateur experience, Jennings with 20 fights and 114 rounds in the pros. Tyson Fury with 24 bouts and 134 rounds. Granted, you get more rounds with better competition.

He has one title defense, and didn't look great in that, testing his newly healed broken hand, so this is why he is taking another tune-up before he fights Povetkin. People want a top 20 guy for him, but then the top 20 guy isn't a good enough top 20 guy for a tune up?

His weak opposition in the past is obvious, and no one has bragged about that. We will find out more about him in his next fight and ultimately with Povetkin.

The 28 amateur bout claim is likely incorrect. I emailed Jay Deas near the start of Wilder's career and he informed me that Deontay had 21 bouts upon entering the Olympic trials, though I see in several articles that has been changed to winning the trials in his 21st bout (maybe going to the Olympics in his 21st bout is next). He had at least 15 bouts after making the Olympic team (http://www.boxing-scoop.com/show_boxer.php?boxer_ID=859), meaning that he fought a minimum of 36 amateur bouts with several coming at quite a high high level.

I don't know who you're referring to when you say people called for him to fight a top 20 opponent yet are complaining about Duhaupas, but I want to see him fighting someone even better and I believe that he should've been in with a generally higher standard of opposition. I also don't have Duhaupas in my top 20, though admittedly he's not far from it, yet he'll still be one of Deontay's best opponents.

Now if Deontay fights Povetkin he will have fought someone who I see as a clear #2 in the division, so that will go a long way in strengthening the quality of his opposition and a win would likely make him the #2 fighter at the weight. His team has shown a lack of confidence in him based on his matchmaking though, so I hope he doesn't swerve that fight and opt for a weaker opponent in the Haymon stable, possibly for some PBC belt.

Badhusker wrote:

Tanzio wrote:

Badhusker wrote:I have said for a few years now that I have understood why they brought Wilder along slowly. He was late getting into boxing, and with only 28 amateur bouts, had a lot to learn, and still does. Even with 34 fights in the pros, he has only 79 rounds. Compare to another guy with limited amateur experience, Jennings with 20 fights and 114 rounds in the pros. Tyson Fury with 24 bouts and 134 rounds. Granted, you get more rounds with better competition.

He has one title defense, and didn't look great in that, testing his newly healed broken hand, so this is why he is taking another tune-up before he fights Povetkin. People want a top 20 guy for him, but then the top 20 guy isn't a good enough top 20 guy for a tune up?

His weak opposition in the past is obvious, and no one has bragged about that. We will find out more about him in his next fight and ultimately with Povetkin.

There are no adequate excuses for Wilder's path at this point. There can be only one reason; he is being protected by his team like an overly protective mother. The mother knows best.

Wilder is a walking KO waiting to happen.

I used to think the same about a young Tommy Hearns. Of course Wilder doesn't have the skills that Hearns had, but the spindly legs, good jab, and powerful right hand. Hearns did have a vulnerable chin in a few fights. We will see how Wilder turns out.

If you care to, take a look at Hearn's record up until he fights SRL. probably one recognizable name in his first 28 or so fights. Not saying they will have similar careers. Sometimes boxers are judged too early.

Wilder has a belt. It is time to take off the training wheels.

I call it The Hitman Shuffle. Comparing Wilder to The Hitman is so utterly premature that it is pathetic. Hearns chin was vulnerable at the top level but he had an amazing career thanks to his gifts, skill and heart. He went against beasts regularly, not a succession of toofless no hopers.

I sincerely hope that Deontay proves me dead wrong but everything points at a career long series of cherrypickins.

If you read my post again, I said Wilder doesn't have the skills Hearns had, and we will see how he turns out....some are judged too early.

If you compare their records at a similar part of their career, it is strikingly similar. Before SRL, Hearns was 32-0, mostly knockouts. Won the title from Curves, and on his 3rd defense right before SRL, gave a title shot to a guy with a 10-9-2 record. Hearns one or maybe two known guys on his resume up to that point.

Wilder is giving a guy a shot that is 32-2. He's not great, but lost 2 close fights and has decent skills. The jury is still out on how good he will be, just as it was with Hearn's.

Badhusker wrote:If you read my post again, I said Wilder doesn't have the skills Hearns had, and we will see how he turns out....some are judged too early.

If you compare their records at a similar part of their career, it is strikingly similar. Before SRL, Hearns was 32-0, mostly knockouts. Won the title from Curves, and on his 3rd defense right before SRL, gave a title shot to a guy with a 10-9-2 record. Hearns one or maybe two known guys on his resume up to that point.

Wilder is giving a guy a shot that is 32-2. He's not great, but lost 2 close fights and has decent skills. The jury is still out on how good he will be, just as it was with Hearn's.

You know, I was going to let this go but your excuses for Wilder are just too profuse.

Hearns debuted on 11/25/77. Three years and ten months later, at the age of 22, he faced of with SRL in his 33rd fight. Being the numbers person that I am I can figure in my head that Tommy fought an average of once every 1.4 months (actually slightly less). He took the WBA world title in his 29th fight, a little over 2.5 years after his debut, against Pipino Cuevas, who had been on a tear of KOs. He defended three times over the next year BEFORE fighting Leonard. He fought a young undefeated fighter, Randy Shields and your aforementioned 10-9 bum.

Wilder debuted in 2008. It took him over six years to face Stiverne, not SRL. He is nearly 30 and he has talked mad shit for years.

Get out of here with your lame excuses and your deceiving comparisons. Wilder needs to remove the training wheels and find his depth. Povetkin, Fury, etc. are not SRL level competition. They are more on Shields level.

Enough! Take off the skirt and bobby socks Deontay.

Ok fair enough. It was worth a try.

I think we can all agree that Wilder had better step up and keep up his competition from here on out, or his career will go down hill.

I might be the only one who is thinking this, They are giiving Deontay Wilder all these 'gimme fights' as it had been nearly decade since an American who won a portion of the Heavyweight title they savouring it while lasts until Wilder gets beheaded.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I might be the only one who is thinking this, They are giiving Deontay Wilder all these 'gimme fights' as it had been nearly decade since an American who won a portion of the Heavyweight title they savouring it while lasts until Wilder gets beheaded.

That's pretty much what I was saying, they know he has a terrible chin, and it's a matter of time until he gets sparked, end of fairy tale.

The thing is, he's a world champ in name only, nobody out there remotely considers him the best, I wouldn't even confidently say he's the 2nd best heavyweight out there. He might barely be top 5. We just don't know, because he refuses to fight anyone who is remotely a threat.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

IRLangmaid25 wrote:I might be the only one who is thinking this, They are giiving Deontay Wilder all these 'gimme fights' as it had been nearly decade since an American who won a portion of the Heavyweight title they savouring it while lasts until Wilder gets beheaded.

That's pretty much what I was saying, they know he has a terrible chin, and it's a matter of time until he gets sparked, end of fairy tale.

The thing is, he's a world champ in name only, nobody out there remotely considers him the best, I wouldn't even confidently say he's the 2nd best heavyweight out there. He might barely be top 5. We just don't know, because he refuses to fight anyone who is remotely a threat.

Which means he can sit on the throne and make a few bb thanks to good old Uncle Al Haymon. But hey a big charisma banger whose a bit chimney is definitely worth a watch and I share the same sentiments.

But he will never make real bucks uNess he gets into a proper fight. The yanks are a very tough crowd. I was at the first packman marquez fight, and they were booing in round four! Wilder lacks the grit or ferocity to catch the imagination. I think the reality is he is not that good and will soon be found out.

I watched the Charr-Duhapas fight and I saw BOTH looked awful (Charr being the worse of the two).

Duhapas is very limited and throws only one punch at a time. He couldn't even out-box Erkan Teper, who (although hard-punching) is likewise poorly skilled.

Shouldn't the WBC champion of the world be defending against someone better than BoxRec #34 Duhaupas?

If Deontay Wilder didn't have a mandatory who wants to fight him as soon as possible, it might be forgivable.

But given that Wilder just fought Molina, shouldn't he be fighting his mandatory next, or at least a decent top 10 heavyweight like Jennings or Takam?

I think all the doubts about Wilders credibility as a world champion stems from the fact that WBC let Stiverne and Arreola fight for the vacant WBC-belt from start with. That was a mistake. So when Wilder beat Stiverne, he really didn't beat a credible champion (although Stiverne was good, but not good enough).

WBC should have let Wladimir and someone like Takam, Povetkin, Pulev or somebody else in their league fight for their title first. And at the same time Wilder should have to beat Stiverne-Arreola-winner in order to be WBC mandatory.

However, when Wilder meets Povetkin, we will learn how credible Wilder really is.

This Frenchman can't break an egg; no wonder Wilder picked him.

tfels wrote:I think all the doubts about Wilders credibility as a world champion stems from the fact that WBC let Stiverne and Arreola fight for the vacant WBC-belt from start with. That was a mistake. So when Wilder beat Stiverne, he really didn't beat a credible champion (although Stiverne was good, but not good enough).

WBC should have let Wladimir and someone like Takam, Povetkin, Pulev or somebody else in their league fight for their title first. And at the same time Wilder should have to beat Stiverne-Arreola-winner in order to be WBC mandatory.

However, when Wilder meets Povetkin, we will learn how credible Wilder really is.

Yeah, Wilder can't avoid fighting someone who can hit him back forever.

tfels wrote:I think all the doubts about Wilders credibility as a world champion stems from the fact that WBC let Stiverne and Arreola fight for the vacant WBC-belt from start with. That was a mistake. So when Wilder beat Stiverne, he really didn't beat a credible champion (although Stiverne was good, but not good enough).

WBC should have let Wladimir and someone like Takam, Povetkin, Pulev or somebody else in their league fight for their title first. And at the same time Wilder should have to beat Stiverne-Arreola-winner in order to be WBC mandatory.

However, when Wilder meets Povetkin, we will learn how credible Wilder really is.

spot on mate !

Wilder, as well as any of the opponends he has ever faced would never win against any top Russian or European.

For me Wilder is like rank 20-25 ish of the world.

I can name about 5 Americans that would win, and another 5 that have a serious chance of winning against Wilder, as well as Stiverne.

Both are only good on paper, not in the real world.

Actually even Duhaupas, who actually only fought like 3 real guys and lost most of them, got a serious chance of winning against him as well.

I really think Duhaupas got like a 30% chance, even though he had big problems against Charr, who recently lost on KO against normally cruiserweight "Mairis Briedis" last month.

Both Duhaupas, as well as Deontay Wilder can't really been taken serious when it comes to the heavyweight champions of the world.
Wilder reminds me of David Haye, who couldn't box either, but could very well run around like a coward in the ring.

asdfjkl wrote:Wilder, as well as any of the opponends he has ever faced would never win against any top Russian or European.

For me Wilder is like rank 20-25 ish of the world.

I can name about 5 Americans that would win, and another 5 that have a serious chance of winning against Wilder, as well as Stiverne.

Both are only good on paper, not in the real world.

Actually even Duhaupas, who actually only fought like 3 real guys and lost most of them, got a serious chance of winning against him as well.

I really think Duhaupas got like a 30% chance, even though he had big problems against Charr, who recently lost on KO against normally cruiserweight "Mairis Briedis" last month.

Both Duhaupas, as well as Deontay Wilder can't really been taken serious when it comes to the heavyweight champions of the world.
Wilder reminds me of David Haye, who couldn't box either, but could very well run around like a coward in the ring.

You diss Wilder but let Valuev off the hook. Value can't run away, he's not athletic enough. Watch Valuev-Holyfiled. It's tragic to watch. Haye ran away from Valuev and Wlad, that's true. But who has Wilder run away from? He outboxed Stiverne, that's not running away.