BoxRec

Giancarlo wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Greb was never the champion of the whole world at 175, at no point.

Neither was Virgil Hill.

Yes, Hill was. He was the WBA version champ of the whole entire world. At least he could claim that.

elmersalsa wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Greb was never the champion of the whole world at 175, at no point.

Neither was Virgil Hill.

Yes, Hill was. He was the WBA version champ of the whole entire world. At least he could claim that.

Can't say I'm surprised. He has high regard for Ray Lampkin because he won the NABF title. (Against an opponent who was 6-7)


He has Charles as his All-Time #1 light heavy. He never won the light heavyweight title.
He has Tunney as his # 4 light heavy. He never won the the light heavyweight title.
He has Bivins as his #11 light heavy. He never won the the light heavyweight title.
He has Marshall as his #12 light heavy.

Really, don't have much problem with this;, none ever got a title at at light heavy.

However, he holds it against Greb for not winning the light heavyweight title even though he never got a light heavyweight title shot.

He also counts no-decision fights against Greb. Seriously.
elmer logic again.

elmersalsa wrote:Well, let's examine the great Harry Greb's record and see if he was a legit 175pounder. I think I saw it, and it didn't convince me that he belongs at the 175lbs all time best

Greb fought higher than the middleweight limit many many times. He beat all time greats while doing so....he fought and beat heavyweights while weighing over the middleweight limit...yes Elmer, you guessed it....at Light heavyweight Greb was a great fighter and would have taken Virgill Hill and most of your top 20 to the cleaners.

Qwight Braxton would have destroyed Hill. End of story.

Tomasino wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, let's examine the great Harry Greb's record and see if he was a legit 175pounder. I think I saw it, and it didn't convince me that he belongs at the 175lbs all time best

Greb fought higher than the middleweight limit many many times. He beat all time greats while doing so....he fought and beat heavyweights while weighing over the middleweight limit...yes Elmer, you guessed it....at Light heavyweight Greb was a great fighter and would have taken Virgill Hill and most of your top 20 to the cleaners.

Qwight Braxton would have destroyed Hill. End of story.

Harry Greb was a great fighter indeed. No problem. The one problem was that those no decisions bouts took too much out of his record. In which it means that, he would've had many losses as wins if we live in a fair world.

Thirty wins in 71 fights does not make it for me to include him with the best 175pounders. We will look at his consistency at the weight in days.

elmersalsa wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, let's examine the great Harry Greb's record and see if he was a legit 175pounder. I think I saw it, and it didn't convince me that he belongs at the 175lbs all time best

Greb fought higher than the middleweight limit many many times. He beat all time greats while doing so....he fought and beat heavyweights while weighing over the middleweight limit...yes Elmer, you guessed it....at Light heavyweight Greb was a great fighter and would have taken Virgill Hill and most of your top 20 to the cleaners.

Qwight Braxton would have destroyed Hill. End of story.

Harry Greb was a great fighter indeed. No problem. The one problem was that those no decisions bouts took too much out of his record. In which it means that, he would've had many losses as wins if we live in a fair world.

Thirty wins in 71 fights does not make it for me to include him with the best 175pounders. We will look at his consistency at the weight in days.

He won 155 newspaper decision bouts and lost 9. Do you think he asked for them to be no decisions? It was the era he fought in. He was as great a light heavyweight as any around at the time. What do you mean by 'a fair world?' How do you arrive at that as many losses as wins theory?

elmersalsa wrote:

Tomasino wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Well, let's examine the great Harry Greb's record and see if he was a legit 175pounder. I think I saw it, and it didn't convince me that he belongs at the 175lbs all time best

Greb fought higher than the middleweight limit many many times. He beat all time greats while doing so....he fought and beat heavyweights while weighing over the middleweight limit...yes Elmer, you guessed it....at Light heavyweight Greb was a great fighter and would have taken Virgill Hill and most of your top 20 to the cleaners.

Qwight Braxton would have destroyed Hill. End of story.

Harry Greb was a great fighter indeed. No problem. The one problem was that those no decisions bouts took too much out of his record. In which it means that, he would've had many losses as wins if we live in a fair world.

Thirty wins in 71 fights does not make it for me to include him with the best 175pounders. We will look at his consistency at the weight in days.

You do realize they had newspaper decisions, and Greb won almost all of them . . .

elmersalsa wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:Are you sure about that, dempseyfire? You have opened a can of worms by saying that Virgil Hill was not the best 175pounder of his era. He won 22 fights that mattered. NOBODY HAS WON MORE IN THAT CLASS

In the late 80s he never fought the other two best light heavyweights in Michael Moorer and Prince Charles Williams. In the 90s he lost to Hearns (!) and got bludgeoned by both Darius and Jones Jr.

Number of paper title fights means nothing in my book.

They were not paper title fights, dempseyfire. It was for the WBA World Light-heavyweight title. All mandatory challenges. He won most of those fights. Twenty two times

No-one besides the WBA and Hill's mama considered him "the" champion at 175 in the late 1980s. He was one of many in a division in disarray after Spinks left. And he never even fought the other two best 175lbers of the era in Moorer and Williams. So yes he was a paper champion.

So if we change the context and speak of the "top twenty LHW's of the late 1980's. Hill does have a spot in that list.