BoxRec

Lackeos wrote:If Charlie Zelenoff beats Mayweather, Alvarez, Golovkin Ward, and Kovalev, would he be in the HoF? If Zack Page becomes the first undisputed heavyweight champion since Lennox Lewis, will he make the Hof? Take any boxer in the world, no matter how bad their record; if they then unified all five belts of a division one piece at a time, they would make the HoF. Putting Golovkin's name in the thread title is arbitrary if there is no indication that it's a likelihood of happening. By age 33, Golovkin only possesses 2 full world titles, so his progress is not really much further along than Erislandy Lara, and behind Sergey Kovalev.

I think a less speculative conversation would be: what are Golovkin's chances of making the hall of fame if he continues fighting 2-4 gatekeepers per year for as long as his prime lasts, which would be about 2.5 more years given averages? I think his odds of going undefeated against all of those gatekeepers is pretty decent, and then I think his chances of making the HoF are decent with a 22-0 record in world title fights including no scalps any better than Daniel Geale.

What the F#ck is up with you? If going 22-0 against gatekeepers gets GGG a place into the HOF should be the question? There is a huge chance he will become the undisputed champion by the end of 2016/early 2017 and the opponents he will be facing will 100% not be gatekeepers. I am pretty sure hell move up after he is done at middleweight to face Andre Ward and seal his legacy, but even if he doesnt im pretty sure he will end up in the HOF even without fighting Ward. And yes I agree if anyone manages to unify all the belts in one division almost automaticaly qualifies as HOF'er, BUT thats what I think and it seems u think the same too, it doesnt mean other people agree to this though, thats the F#cking reason I created this thread, I made a clear question and you went overboard.

Right now I think making a good p4p list is very difficult. Based on results Floyd is clearly #1 but I was very underwhelmed by his performance against Pacquiao. Andre Ward should be #2 but his inactivity hurts him and it's hard to know exactly how good he is at the moment because it has been so long since he's fought a top opponent. Rigondeaux is immensely skilled, but has been inactive and fighting poor opposition. Wlad is a dominant champ, but has reigned in an incredibly weak era for the division. Without any strong convictions, here is my current top 5:

1. Mayweather
2. Gonzalez
3. Rigondeaux
4. Pacquiao
5. Kovalev

Aaronide_ger wrote:If Golovkin beats Lemieux, Then goes on 2016 to Defeat Canelo Alvarez (I am not rulling out Cotto but a matchup with Canelo because of his Mexican fanbase would generate more Money and Fame for both of them) and Andy lee by KO to Unify the WHOLE division and become the first undisputed champion since Taylor, will you consider him HOF'er when he retires?

Also where would you rank him in the p4p rankings by then?

Well , probably not. Even if he unifies all the belts in his division, he has to beat a big name / elite fighter like Floyd @ 154 or Ward @ 168 to be considered a future HOF.

Until now GGG has a few good wins against Murray and Geale.

apollo creed wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:If Golovkin beats Lemieux, Then goes on 2016 to Defeat Canelo Alvarez (I am not rulling out Cotto but a matchup with Canelo because of his Mexican fanbase would generate more Money and Fame for both of them) and Andy lee by KO to Unify the WHOLE division and become the first undisputed champion since Taylor, will you consider him HOF'er when he retires?

Also where would you rank him in the p4p rankings by then?

Well , probably not. Even if he unifies all the belts in his division, he has to beat a big name / elite fighter like Floyd @ 154 or Ward @ 168 to be considered a future HOF.

Until now GGG has a few good wins against Murray and Geale.

So you are telling me that Canelo Alvarez (If he wins by emphatic fashion against Cotto) IS NOT A HUGE NAME?

I think the point folks are missing about GGG is this:

even if the impossible happened and he fought and beat Mayweather, even if he does wind up beating Cotto, those things by themselves wouldn't automatically make Gennady an ATG.

What is so amazing about beating a guy years past his prime and/or one or two weight classes below you?

The benchmark for greatness has not changed. Beat an elite guy(s) at or higher than your own natural weight.

That's what Golovkin needs to do.

I think he's got great potential and even if he doesn't beat stellar opposition it just comes down to getting enough votes. I think he's generally quite popular among boxing writers and suspect that he'd have a better shot than most who are similarly accomplished.

Golovkin last 5 opponents ranking:

Monroe Jr 15th Middle
Murray 7th Super Middle
Rubio 14th Middle
Geale 10th Middle
Adama 49th Light Heavy

The quality of his opponents have been absolutely abysmal. Murray was the only decent opponent who was big and strong, but carries little power.

The middleweight division is severely lacking in quality, yet GGG is still struggling to get fights against top 10 opponents.

There isn't a single opponent on GGG's record who the likes of Canelo or Cotto (two light Middles) wouldn't be heavily favored to beat. This goes to show how bad the division is.

At least Lemieux can punch, and should provide some entertainment but I do not know of a single person who thinks he will actually win.

If GGG wants to guarantee HOF entry he needs to go looking for the biggest fights, even if that means stepping up a division. My personal view is that he is a superb middle who won't be as effective at higher weights against stronger opponents that can punch and are of superior quality to those on his record.

johnswan1 wrote:Golovkin last 5 opponents ranking:

Monroe Jr 15th Middle
Murray 7th Super Middle
Rubio 14th Middle
Geale 10th Middle
Adama 49th Light Heavy

The quality of his opponents have been absolutely abysmal. Murray was the only decent opponent who was big and strong, but carries little power.

The middleweight division is severely lacking in quality, yet GGG is still struggling to get fights against top 10 opponents.

There isn't a single opponent on GGG's record who the likes of Canelo or Cotto (two light Middles) wouldn't be heavily favored to beat. This goes to show how bad the division is.

At least Lemieux can punch, and should provide some entertainment but I do not know of a single person who thinks he will actually win.

If GGG wants to guarantee HOF entry he needs to go looking for the biggest fights, even if that means stepping up a division. My personal view is that he is a superb middle who won't be as effective at higher weights against stronger opponents that can punch and are of superior quality to those on his record.

What nonsense are you talking about? Thats their boxrec rankings RIGHT NOW.

when he fought them they were

Monroe jr Boxrec No.15 (RINGTV Unranked)
Martin Murray Boxrec No.5 (RINGTV No.6)
Rubio Boxrec No.11 (RingTV No.8 )
Geale Boxrec No.3 (RingTV No.3)
Adama Boxrec No.19 (RingTV unranked)

I understand that the division isn't great, but he's been fighting opponents who were arguably top 10 at the time fairly regularly over the last few years. Counting Lemieux I'd say he'll have fought at least 5 of these types since mid-2013, with some being in the 3-6 range.

Does anyone else have a stronger MW resume over the last few years?

Martinez beat Pavlik/Williams/Dzinziruk/Macklin/Barker/Chavez Jr/Murray.

Before that you're looking at Pavlik, being the man briefly, Taylor before him, Hopkins before him.

You could argue that prime Hopkins/Taylor/Pavlik/Williams are better than any opponent GGG has beaten thus far.

On that basis you look at the recent champs being Hopkins-Taylor-Pavlik-Martinez, they all have signature wins of more substance than what GGG has.

I'm not knocking GGG, I'm a fan of his, he's just unlucky not to have credible opponents to showcase himself against.

Hopkins is an ATG (beyond the average HOF member) who hasn't been a MW champion in 10 years, while Pavlik's best wins apart from Taylor were probably over the likes of Miranda, Rubio, Lockett, Zuniga, and Zertuche, so even though he clearly has the best win I'd say his overall resume is worse than GGG's, with arguably his next best victim after Taylor being someone GGG easily stopped in 2. Pavlik also hasn't won a MW fight in nearly 6 years, which is pushing what I mean by 'over the last few years'.

Sergio does have a stronger resume, but I don't think there's much in it over the last 5 years or so and I struggle to find an active fighter who within that period has accomplished more at MW than GGG has. Again, the division isn't the strongest and he does lack a defining win, but I think he's working fairly well with what is there and it doesn't seem far-fetched to me that he could land a bout with the Cotto-Canelo winner next year, especially if it's Canelo.

I'll also point out that GGG has been more active since his American debut in 2012 than any other fighter in BoxRec's top 30 P4P other than Kovalev, who like GGG has 10 fights in that period but unlike GGG isn't fighting next month, and I think when some people complain about opponents like Monroe and Adama they forget that if GGG kept a typical pace for someone at his level instead of keeping busy against these types he'd likely be sitting around not fighting at all.

crusader wrote:Hopkins is an ATG (beyond the average HOF member) who hasn't been a MW champion in 10 years, while Pavlik's best wins apart from Taylor were probably over the likes of Miranda, Rubio, Lockett, Zuniga, and Zertuche, so even though he clearly has the best win I'd say his overall resume is worse than GGG's, with arguably his next best victim after Taylor being someone GGG easily stopped in 2. Pavlik also hasn't won a MW fight in nearly 6 years, which is pushing what I mean by 'over the last few years'.

Sergio does have a stronger resume, but I don't think there's much in it over the last 5 years or so and I struggle to find an active fighter who within that period has accomplished more at MW than GGG has. Again, the division isn't the strongest and he does lack a defining win, but I think he's working fairly well with what is there and it doesn't seem far-fetched to me that he could land a bout with the Cotto-Canelo winner next year, especially if it's Canelo.

I'll also point out that GGG has been more active since his American debut in 2012 than any other fighter in BoxRec's top 30 P4P other than Kovalev, who like GGG has 10 fights in that period but unlike GGG isn't fighting next month, and I think when some people complain about opponents like Monroe and Adama they forget that if GGG kept a typical pace for someone at his level instead of keeping busy against these types he'd likely be sitting around not fighting at all.

Aaronide_ger wrote:If Golovkin beats Lemieux, Then goes on 2016 to Defeat Canelo Alvarez (I am not rulling out Cotto but a matchup with Canelo because of his Mexican fanbase would generate more Money and Fame for both of them) and Andy lee by KO to Unify the WHOLE division and become the first undisputed champion since Taylor, will you consider him HOF'er when he retires?

Also where would you rank him in the p4p rankings by then?

A) Probably. I think he's got some pretty solid wins as of now, and if you add those as emphatic wins, I'd say he would already be above several other guys who are in . The HOF is a funny thing though, and people are going to be saying: "Well, if Barry McGuigan is in" sometime until just after the sun burns out. But if you're looking for a yes or no type answer, I'd say yes.

B) Hard to say, because of the other fighters who also might be up there. In this scenario, has Kovalev beaten Stevenson, or vice-versa? What has Ward done? What about Crawford? there are other as well, for example a returning Pacquiao or a Mayweather who fights on. Assuming the other guys mentioned don't do anything too impressive, I'd say GGG could well be a clear #1 in that case, but this is all very hypothetical, of course.

Aaronide_ger wrote:

apollo creed wrote:

Aaronide_ger wrote:If Golovkin beats Lemieux, Then goes on 2016 to Defeat Canelo Alvarez (I am not rulling out Cotto but a matchup with Canelo because of his Mexican fanbase would generate more Money and Fame for both of them) and Andy lee by KO to Unify the WHOLE division and become the first undisputed champion since Taylor, will you consider him HOF'er when he retires?

Also where would you rank him in the p4p rankings by then?

Well , probably not. Even if he unifies all the belts in his division, he has to beat a big name / elite fighter like Floyd @ 154 or Ward @ 168 to be considered a future HOF.

Until now GGG has a few good wins against Murray and Geale.

So you are telling me that Canelo Alvarez (If he wins by emphatic fashion against Cotto) IS NOT A HUGE NAME?

Wladimir Klitschko is a fairly big name. I just wanted to add that to the list of names that Golovkin hasn't beaten and isn't going to beat.