BoxRec

He is not the best ever, but one of the top 10 greatest boxers pound per pound of all time, though. His accomplishments speak for itself. I ranked him at #7 all time pound per pound. A boring fighter at the later stages of his career, but a very effective one.

Here's where he ranks in my view:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Willie Pep
6. Harry Greb
7. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Muhammad Ali
10. Joe Louis

Great list....... except for #7

Only criticism was that too many opponents were not in their prime on the night. The list of names is exceptional but not their condition on fight night. Time will do Mayweather a favour in this respect.

I love to see him against Leonard, Duran and Hearns. Against Leonard he wouldn't have all the advantages at the negotiation table and they'd be evenly matched in the ring too. Duran might have too much dog for Floyd and just eat him alive. Hearns with the jab, reach and power. All fascinating fights.

Duran1970 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2018, 19:52 Great list....... except for #7

Pep over greb is preposterous.

Maybe.... but Mayweather is preposterous

He's too high for my taste, but no more than pep. I've been guilty of overrating pep in the past myself but it's never too late to rectify your mistakes. He has no business ranked ahead of saddler or Floyd. Or canzoneri, mcclarnin, etc.. Willie and Wilde are the all time flimsiest resumes that people just went along with and never stopped. I think it's just that two, for lack of a better word, boxing stereotypes; people don't pay attention to strictly boxers or little guys so they slipped through the hard core cracks. The massively overrated finito suffers from that reverse cliche too.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑09 Dec 2018, 23:26 He's too high for my taste, but no more than pep. I've been guilty of overrating pep in the past myself but it's never too late to rectify your mistakes. He has no business ranked ahead of saddler or Floyd. Or canzoneri, mcclarnin, etc.. Willie and Wilde are the all time flimsiest resumes that people just went along with and never stopped. I think it's just that two, for lack of a better word, boxing stereotypes; people don't pay attention to strictly boxers or little guys so they slipped through the hard core cracks. The massively overrated finito suffers from that reverse cliche too.

FMJ is always too high on a list for me. I really am a card carrying member of the "I hate Floyd club."

Yeah, he's much more underrated on most lists. Elmer has him too high, but not ridiculously for me. Not many fighters were at the top of the sport for 15 years.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑09 Dec 2018, 23:35 Yeah, he's much more underrated on most lists. Elmer has him too high, but not ridiculously for me. Not many fighters were at the top of the sport for 15 years.

To be fair he epitomized "hit and don't get hit." Just don't like him.

Willie Pep won 230 out of 241 fights. That is not preposterous. One of the greatest careers in boxing history.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑14 Dec 2018, 19:56 Willie Pep won 230 out of 241 fights. That is not preposterous. One of the greatest careers in boxing history.

I remember seeing a picture of him after beating Sandy Saddler where Pep looked like he got run over by a mac truck. My dad said Pep was the best pure boxer he'd ever seen and that he had to be because he couldn't poke a hole through a Kleenex.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑24 Nov 2018, 12:39The boxers you named above, the four great welterweights/middleweights of the eighties, were "luckier" than Floyd Jr. on getting the opposition they deserved: that should sound more like an alarm bell than some may think: we never knew what Floyd Jr. was really capable of.

In the real world, Mayweather avoided what would have been his best opponents, or put off fighting them til they were old, but if men the equivalent of Hearns, Leonard, Duran and Hagler had been around, he would have fought them?

Floyd squeaked past a 35 year old De la Hoya, Cotto and Maidana. That's how good he was.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑23 Dec 2018, 05:10

Jacopodb wrote: ↑24 Nov 2018, 12:39The boxers you named above, the four great welterweights/middleweights of the eighties, were "luckier" than Floyd Jr. on getting the opposition they deserved: that should sound more like an alarm bell than some may think: we never knew what Floyd Jr. was really capable of.

In the real world, Mayweather avoided what would have been his best opponents, or put off fighting them til they were old, but if men the equivalent of Hearns, Leonard, Duran and Hagler had been around, he would have fought them?

Floyd squeaked past a 35 year old De la Hoya, Cotto and Maidana. That's how good he was.

All hard-hitting, expert: Canelo, Cotto, Maidana and Pacquiao were younger than Floyd Jr.

Zab Judah was a dangerous, pressure-fighting champion, and most of Floyd Jr.'s remaining opposition was no-less than respectable: Castillo, Corrales, Hatton...

De La Hoya and Marquez were older, but still very fit and not-too-much past their prime; Mosley, on the other hand, which might be your only respectable concern about Mayweather Jr., was older but still in shape, and had just spanked both dangerous Cotto and Margarito...

You wanna blame old Floyd Jr. for not letting himself being slaughtered while still unripe and light..? I hope not: you would technically be a psychopath in that very case...

Floyd Jr. achieved much more than the overhyped, daily-nuthugged GGG.

So: "in the real world"..? What on Earth are you talking about, dude?

DLH was clearly past his prime. Marquez had to moved up two weight classes to fight Mayweather. Pacquio was way past it. The first fight with Castillo was a outright robbery. He has good wins. He has no great wins. That's what people are talking about.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Dec 2018, 21:54 DLH was clearly past his prime. Marquez had to moved up two weight classes to fight Mayweather. Pacquio was way past it. The first fight with Castillo was a outright robbery. He has good wins. He has no great wins. That's what people are talking about.

Canelo and Cotto were great wins. Floyd Jr. had to move up in weight too, to meet Canelo, so what's the matter?

Maidana, Hatton, Judah, Hernandez, Corrales, Guerrero, were as dangerous as an outsider can be, with remarkable records and wins to prove it.

Pacquiao is younger than Floyd anyway, and toyed with those medical tests for quite some time, losing the moment... Everything else regarding Floyd Jr. was respectable to say the least: the lad has always been responsible, and didn't let anyone slaughter him for any payday, as many other glorified and celebrated fighters have done.

Floyd Jr. has shown great work-ethics, great performances both in a technical and an athletical perspective, showing dominance and control over the scene like no other fighter in history.

I wonder how GGG can get glorified so self-indulgently, when one like Mayweather Jr. gets still pissed on his head for free...

Get a grip, people.

- Need to find a new zero to Slurple the Purple over.

The geriatric TUE 50-0 in Tokyo promised blood, sweat and tears against a Tyny Banty Kickboxer before shatting hisself to flee in the dark of early AM squallin' for his daddy like he did in the 2nd Maidana fight.

Take him out of Vegas to put him under pressure and he melts like the Kandy keister he is.

You know you're in trouble when you're pointing to Zab Judah as a dangerous opponent.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑24 Dec 2018, 17:42 You know you're in trouble when you're pointing to Zab Judah as a dangerous opponent.

LMAO!

Alvarez, Castillo, Pacquiao, and Cotto are all good wins.

I don't think there has ever been anyone who beat as many rated contenders without incurring a loss.

People like bloodbaths: Gatti vs Ward, Alì vs Holmes, biten ears, who knows what else.

When a fighter acts responsibly, avoiding taking excessive punishment, bloodthirsty creatures peep out of the dark.

Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑24 Dec 2018, 17:42 You know you're in trouble when you're pointing to Zab Judah as a dangerous opponent.

Congratulations, that's cynical enough, but Judah has defended his titles against fighters that had remarkable records, and was as dangerous as they come. Name me what you believe are dangerous fighters, please (not all-timers, but proficient fighters nevertheless: fast/powerful/technically skilled or else).

Every fighter in history gets criticism and many won fights that people think they lost. You can't please everyone. I'm not a FMM fan but his resume is pretty strong compared to others, of course arguments can be made for picking the right time to fight certain people but any fighter can be picked apart if you wanted to.

Controversial wrote: ↑25 Dec 2018, 13:14 Every fighter in history gets criticism and many won fights that people think they lost. You can't please everyone. I'm not a FMM fan but his resume is pretty strong compared to others, of course arguments can be made for picking the right time to fight certain people but any fighter can be picked apart if you wanted to.

That's a good point, and I don't believe that Floyd Jr. ever ducked anyone: he just protected himself at all times, in a broad sense, more likely.

It's not an honourable thing getting slaughtered for a payday... not even Sugar Ray Robinson asked to be chopped down by stronger fighters, while he was still too unripe to face them.

Canelo didn't fight Floyd Jr. when he was 17 years old, as Floyd Jr. avoided fighting Mosley while too inexperienced: they both waited until they could fight on equal terms, and had a similar record... it's fine, it's ok, it's boxing... bloodthirsty cheerleaders don't understand that.

Jacopodb wrote: ↑25 Dec 2018, 13:51

Controversial wrote: ↑25 Dec 2018, 13:14 Every fighter in history gets criticism and many won fights that people think they lost. You can't please everyone. I'm not a FMM fan but his resume is pretty strong compared to others, of course arguments can be made for picking the right time to fight certain people but any fighter can be picked apart if you wanted to.

That's a good point, and I don't believe that Floyd Jr. ever ducked anyone: he just protected himself at all times, in a broad sense, more likely.

It's not an honourable thing getting slaughtered for a payday... not even Sugar Ray Robinson asked to be chopped down by stronger fighters, while he was still too unripe to face them.

Canelo didn't fight Floyd Jr. when he was 17 years old, as Floyd Jr. avoided fighting Mosley while too inexperienced: they both waited until they could fight on equal terms, and had a similar record... it's fine, it's ok, it's boxing... bloodthirsty cheerleaders don't understand that.

Exactly. Most fighters pick and choose to a certain extent. Foreman was quite honest he wanted no part of Lennox Lewis when he came back, he even said he avoided Quarry when he was younger.

Controversial wrote: ↑25 Dec 2018, 16:17

Jacopodb wrote: ↑25 Dec 2018, 13:51

Controversial wrote: ↑25 Dec 2018, 13:14 Every fighter in history gets criticism and many won fights that people think they lost. You can't please everyone. I'm not a FMM fan but his resume is pretty strong compared to others, of course arguments can be made for picking the right time to fight certain people but any fighter can be picked apart if you wanted to.

That's a good point, and I don't believe that Floyd Jr. ever ducked anyone: he just protected himself at all times, in a broad sense, more likely.

It's not an honourable thing getting slaughtered for a payday... not even Sugar Ray Robinson asked to be chopped down by stronger fighters, while he was still too unripe to face them.

Canelo didn't fight Floyd Jr. when he was 17 years old, as Floyd Jr. avoided fighting Mosley while too inexperienced: they both waited until they could fight on equal terms, and had a similar record... it's fine, it's ok, it's boxing... bloodthirsty cheerleaders don't understand that.

Exactly. Most fighters pick and choose to a certain extent. Foreman was quite honest he wanted no part of Lennox Lewis when he came back, he even said he avoided Quarry when he was younger.

Now, talk to "Big" George Foreman if you'd like to... By watching his even recent interviews, you would reckon that, despite his rather long professional career, he doesn't slur more that you do, perhaps.

Ask Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran, or Marvelous Marvin Hagler, if it's not worth boxing responsibly: you will see, that even in these recent years, they have never slurred more than any Hollywood super-star actor... All witty gentlemen way far from "queer street", with all due respect for those who went that way.

All of those above-named fighters, and more, have avoided being broken down by overly-superior fighters, yet their careers are as much acclaimed and celebrated as roughly anyone else's.

I can recall even more: would anyone blame Monzon for not fighting former-superwelterweight Benvenuti years prior to their 1970 fight (now Benvenuti is 4 years older than Monzon)? I hope not... Monzon never fought below middleweights, as far as I'm concerned, and Benvenuti came from a lighter weight-class... Nevertheless, Monzon deserved his victory.

Now, read this:

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑23 Dec 2018, 21:54 Marquez had to moved up two weight classes to fight Mayweather.

Why aren't there as many fans questioning Monzon's achievements involving a rather older, former-lighter opponent ( viewtopic.php?f=4&t=222620 ), while so many, like this kind Ambling Alp II user, are pointing out that Floyd (who had also fought at 130, earlier) fought older and former-lighter Marquez (who was later fit-enough to floor none other than Pacquiao)? Maybe because Floyd has a clean record, and Monzon not..?

Perhaps Floyd Jr.'s supremacy over the sport has crashed your own wet-dreams and false hopes, or what..?

O pernickety Ambling Alp II, try and give me a good argument about the above-stated topic.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑08 Dec 2018, 11:42 He is not the best ever, but one of the top 10 greatest boxers pound per pound of all time, though. His accomplishments speak for itself. I ranked him at #7 all time pound per pound. A boring fighter at the later stages of his career, but a very effective one.

Here's where he ranks in my view:
1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Sam Langford
4. Roberto Duran
5. Willie Pep
6. Harry Greb
7. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Muhammad Ali
10. Joe Louis

That's a fair list, IMHO. I don't know where Floyd would stand really, but any respectable all-time top-10 p4p list in this world must include Floyd's name.

Archie Moore wasn't half-bad either: just look at his record, and at his opponents' record and history... All of his losses came against all-time-great, younger or very dangerous fighters perhaps, and he was denied a shot at the world title for over ten years, probably due to racist issues... At least a honourable mention in your list.