BoxRec

Chepppaaa wrote: hahahaha ...so if he lost once, than maybe, but 7 times ...so 7 bad descisions and actualy carp won, yeah sure

Well yeah, I mean you claim Klitschko has lost about 50% of his fights so nothing is unreasonable in your mind.

The Revival wrote:Sure it is. Mayweather is from the same era, and beat Pacquiao by Unanimous Decision. Along with being an Undefeated Boxer who reigned as Champion for 17 years

You could make a case that Pacquiao's overall resume is just as good as his, but I don't think you can make a case that it's better. Not when he went life and death with Juan Manuel Marquez every time they fought, and was ultimately knocked out by him. While Mayweather outboxed him with ease.

I know you'll say...but, but, but Pacquiao was more fun to watch. Yeah he was...but that doesn't make him more accomplished.

Don't you get bored making new accounts Brut?

Ricky_ wrote:

The Revival wrote:Sure it is. Mayweather is from the same era, and beat Pacquiao by Unanimous Decision. Along with being an Undefeated Boxer who reigned as Champion for 17 years

You could make a case that Pacquiao's overall resume is just as good as his, but I don't think you can make a case that it's better. Not when he went life and death with Juan Manuel Marquez every time they fought, and was ultimately knocked out by him. While Mayweather outboxed him with ease.

I know you'll say...but, but, but Pacquiao was more fun to watch. Yeah he was...but that doesn't make him more accomplished.

Don't you get bored making new accounts Brut?

It's a new account, but I damn sure ain't Brut.

The Revival wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

The Revival wrote:Sure it is. Mayweather is from the same era, and beat Pacquiao by Unanimous Decision. Along with being an Undefeated Boxer who reigned as Champion for 17 years

You could make a case that Pacquiao's overall resume is just as good as his, but I don't think you can make a case that it's better. Not when he went life and death with Juan Manuel Marquez every time they fought, and was ultimately knocked out by him. While Mayweather outboxed him with ease.

I know you'll say...but, but, but Pacquiao was more fun to watch. Yeah he was...but that doesn't make him more accomplished.

Don't you get bored making new accounts Brut?

It's a new account, but I damn sure ain't Brut.

lets be 100 % clear about it!

pacquiao is 58 wins/4 losses/3 draw

58, cause timmy was a win, that simple.
4 losses to torrecampo, singsurat, morales and marquez.
3 draws, cause floyd was a draw, you dont win by only running

mayweather is 45 wins/2 losses/2 draw

castillo 1 was a loss
maidana 1 was a draw, just a close fight
maidana 2 was a dq loss, sorry bayless was paid off and floyd was holding excessive, which is illegal
pacquiao fight was a draw, both didnt do shit and nobody deserves a win

This discussion reminds me of Sam Langford, a supremely talented smaller guy who constantly fought bigger men...

Sadly, he did it for next to no money and no recognition....In a different era, he would have been part of this discussion for sure.

But. I digress from the original question....apologies...

Sure, I could pick at Pac's resume, but you can do that to any fighter...I think that kind of analysis serves to diminish fighters and make us forget how good they really were. If you could do it to anybody, what does it really even mean? Nothing..

The Revival wrote:

Ricky_ wrote:

The Revival wrote:Sure it is. Mayweather is from the same era, and beat Pacquiao by Unanimous Decision. Along with being an Undefeated Boxer who reigned as Champion for 17 years

You could make a case that Pacquiao's overall resume is just as good as his, but I don't think you can make a case that it's better. Not when he went life and death with Juan Manuel Marquez every time they fought, and was ultimately knocked out by him. While Mayweather outboxed him with ease.

I know you'll say...but, but, but Pacquiao was more fun to watch. Yeah he was...but that doesn't make him more accomplished.

Don't you get bored making new accounts Brut?

It's a new account, but I damn sure ain't Brut.

So if its new, what was youre last account ?

People that need to know. Already know. I don't even recall seeing you around before so you wouldn't remember me anyway.

The Revival wrote:People that need to know. Already know. I don't even recall seeing you around before so you wouldn't remember me anyway.

So its an important secret ?
Uhhh...
Welcome back brut

Ezzard wrote:I think his record is better than Leonard's. I think we have to go back to Duran.

Hmm, I think the quality of Leonard's opponents trumps the volume of Pacquaio's.

Butterbean wrote:

The Revival wrote:People that need to know. Already know. I don't even recall seeing you around before so you wouldn't remember me anyway.

So its an important secret ?
Uhhh...
Welcome back brut

I didn't say it was important, just that you in all likelihood wouldn't remember me. Lots of people around here would though, and do. I mostly came back to compete in the Sim like I had before. Brut's never been in the Sim.

For the record, I always thought Brut was a douchebag

The Revival wrote:

Butterbean wrote:

The Revival wrote:People that need to know. Already know. I don't even recall seeing you around before so you wouldn't remember me anyway.

So its an important secret ?
Uhhh...
Welcome back brut

I didn't say it was important, just that you in all likelihood wouldn't remember me. Lots of people around here would though, and do. I mostly came back to compete in the Sim like I had before. Brut's never been in the Sim.

For the record, I always thought Brut was a douchebag

I never post in the sim, but a couple of my favorite posters who have since departed did. Have we interacted interacted in the past? This place needs some of the good old posters back.

Chepppaaa wrote:starting @106 pounds with stones in his pockets to make weight, going up to 147.

from minimumweight till super welterweight when he was boxing margarito.

that is 12 divisions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that fact along with his mind blowing run in his prime from 2005-2010, i mean, i remember, people couldnt believe when morales was down, the way he beat cotto, hatton and de la hoya, the combination of speed, power and condition, rarely have we ever seen this in boxing.

Keep in mind every other pound is another division. True, Pacquiao is an ATG small fighter, but when there is a division @ 126, 130, and 135, the number of division thing need not be taken seriously.

Tony1244 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:starting @106 pounds with stones in his pockets to make weight, going up to 147.

from minimumweight till super welterweight when he was boxing margarito.

that is 12 divisions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that fact along with his mind blowing run in his prime from 2005-2010, i mean, i remember, people couldnt believe when morales was down, the way he beat cotto, hatton and de la hoya, the combination of speed, power and condition, rarely have we ever seen this in boxing.

Keep in mind every other pound is another division. True, Pacquiao is an ATG small fighter, but when there is a division @ 126, 130, and 135, the number of division thing need not be taken seriously.

Also consider the point I'd made earlier about 4 or 5 (since they count the IBO as one of Manny's belts) belts per division and the sheer number doesn't mean as much. Pac is great and had a great career because of who he fought and who he beat. Number of divisions and titles won are horribly inflated by the modern set up.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I think his record is better than Leonard's. I think we have to go back to Duran.

Hmm, I think the quality of Leonard's opponents trumps the volume of Pacquaio's.

Manny never beat anyone anywhere near as good as Haggler, Hearns, Duran... Benitez

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I think his record is better than Leonard's. I think we have to go back to Duran.

Hmm, I think the quality of Leonard's opponents trumps the volume of Pacquaio's.

i think quality wise leonard's record is hard to
trump by anyone in history. his opponents sound
rather like an ATG list than a record.

Tony1244 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:starting @106 pounds with stones in his pockets to make weight, going up to 147.

from minimumweight till super welterweight when he was boxing margarito.

that is 12 divisions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that fact along with his mind blowing run in his prime from 2005-2010, i mean, i remember, people couldnt believe when morales was down, the way he beat cotto, hatton and de la hoya, the combination of speed, power and condition, rarely have we ever seen this in boxing.

Keep in mind every other pound is another division. True, Pacquiao is an ATG small fighter, but when there is a division @ 126, 130, and 135, the number of division thing need not be taken seriously.

Percentages of weights ? 5 pounds between 130 and 135, 7 pounds between 168 and 175. Weight difference in lower weight class is actually bigger. So your point is fuetile, as i guess, by your standards and you logic, divisions and champs in divisions from ww up to lhw can not be taken seriuos ?


Hands down, pacquiaos accomplishments are just amazing. And no one else doent even get close. Of course hes resume is not filled with atgs, as flattening his opponents the way he has, has prevented them of ever being thought of as atgs...

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I think his record is better than Leonard's. I think we have to go back to Duran.

Hmm, I think the quality of Leonard's opponents trumps the volume of Pacquaio's.

Duran x2 (one old)
Hearns
Hagler
Kalule
Green

MAB x2
Morales x2
Marquez
Bradley (should have been x2)
Cotto
Hatton
DLH (old)
Mosely (old)

Ezzard wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I think his record is better than Leonard's. I think we have to go back to Duran.

Hmm, I think the quality of Leonard's opponents trumps the volume of Pacquaio's.

Duran x2 (one old)
Hearns
Hagler
Kalule
Green

MAB x2
Morales x2
Marquez
Bradley (should have been x2)
Cotto
Hatton
DLH (old)
Mosely (old)

Leonard also beat Benitez who was a great boxer but there is no denying that some of Leonard's opponents were gimmees of he fiddled with the weight etc.

Manny did get in there with just about anyone around and he absolutely blitzed some brilliant fighters.

Yes, of course... Benitez too

Ezzard wrote:Yes, of course... Benitez too

Any of the great boxers have some brilliant names and wins over marvellous fighters; Leonard was a great and also a diva who could dictate terms to other fighters, organisaing bodies etc - Manny has also been guilty of the same, Floyd the same, Oscar the same, Roy Jones before.

Butterbean wrote:

Tony1244 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:starting @106 pounds with stones in his pockets to make weight, going up to 147.

from minimumweight till super welterweight when he was boxing margarito.

that is 12 divisions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that fact along with his mind blowing run in his prime from 2005-2010, i mean, i remember, people couldnt believe when morales was down, the way he beat cotto, hatton and de la hoya, the combination of speed, power and condition, rarely have we ever seen this in boxing.

Keep in mind every other pound is another division. True, Pacquiao is an ATG small fighter, but when there is a division @ 126, 130, and 135, the number of division thing need not be taken seriously.

Percentages of weights ? 5 pounds between 130 and 135, 7 pounds between 168 and 175. Weight difference in lower weight class is actually bigger. So your point is fuetile, as i guess, by your standards and you logic, divisions and champs in divisions from ww up to lhw can not be taken seriuos ?


Hands down, pacquiaos accomplishments are just amazing. And no one else doent even get close. Of course hes resume is not filled with atgs, as flattening his opponents the way he has, has prevented them of ever being thought of as atgs...

Punchoutsb wrote, "Pac is great and had a great career because of who he fought and who he beat. Number of divisions and titles won are horribly inflated by the modern set up."

He hit the nail on the head. Any weight division with the word super or light (excepting light heavyweight) is not only unnecessary but bad for boxing. Look at all the good fights it prevents. Andre Ward would have to fight either GGG or Kovalev if it wasn't for the absurd super middleweight division.

A couple of questions for the people who support Manny on this topic.

1. How do you factor in success and ease of victory into your rankings?
2. How much of your ranking is based on the fact Manny fought Morales and Barrera?

I factor in success and ease of victory into my rankings. Therefore, Floyd's win over JMM trumps Manny's tetralogy.
Especially because the only definitive win of the series was Manny being KO'ed.
A win that has been unfairly and unprecedentedly tainted by hypocritical Manny fans (and HBO)
who all of a sudden believed extenuating circumstances based on performance and speculation is enough to assume PED guilt.
The same people who argued for years that Manny is above suspicion.

So in terms of excitement, Manny's four fights with JMM are amazing, and Floyd can't compare.
However, in terms of a successful boxing career, Floyd proved more.

It seems that Manny gets credit over Floyd for 2 things:
1. Gaining weight and keeping his power (which cannot be attributed to any type of PED use )
2. Fighting Morales and Barrera.

If you look at the period of Manny's career that is considered his rise to preeminence beginning with DLH,
the run was not better than Floyd's in the same time period. More exciting, yes.
However, the frenzy surrounding Manny as an exciting and good anti-Floyd was in full swing.
Manny: DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, JMM, Bradley, JMM, Rios, Bradley, Algieri
Floyd: DLH, Hatton, JMM, Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, Alvarez, Maidana, Maidana

So, I've concluded the average delusional hype fan, like the one who created this topic,
finds Manny's greatness during that run, which is absurd.
Floyd performed better against equal to slightly better opposition.
Therefore, Manny's greatness is tied to the Morales and Barrera wins in the minds of true boxing fans.

So, Manny's career comes in two halves. The first is where he got real boxing "street cred".
In the second, he got mainstream appeal.
Real fans tend to rate wins over A+ fighters very highly so I understand why Manny's early career is held in such high regard.
Then again, it seems like the absolute brilliance that was Floyd's early career has been reduced to
a big win over Corrales
and more importantly, a disputed win over Corrales
which is very unfair and biased.

But whatever.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:A couple of questions for the people who support Manny on this topic.

1. How do you factor in success and ease of victory into your rankings?
2. How much of your ranking is based on the fact Manny fought Morales and Barrera?

I factor in success and ease of victory into my rankings. Therefore, Floyd's win over JMM trumps Manny's tetralogy.
Especially because the only definitive win of the series was Manny being KO'ed.
A win that has been unfairly and unprecedentedly tainted by hypocritical Manny fans (and HBO)
who all of a sudden believed extenuating circumstances based on performance and speculation is enough to assume PED guilt.
The same people who argued for years that Manny is above suspicion.

So in terms of excitement, Manny's four fights with JMM are amazing, and Floyd can't compare.
However, in terms of a successful boxing career, Floyd proved more.

It seems that Manny gets credit over Floyd for 2 things:
1. Gaining weight and keeping his power (which cannot be attributed to any type of PED use )
2. Fighting Morales and Barrera.

If you look at the period of Manny's career that is considered his rise to preeminence beginning with DLH,
the run was not better than Floyd's in the same time period. More exciting, yes.
However, the frenzy surrounding Manny as an exciting and good anti-Floyd was in full swing.
Manny: DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Mosley, JMM, Bradley, JMM, Rios, Bradley, Algieri
Floyd: DLH, Hatton, JMM, Mosley, Ortiz, Cotto, Guerrero, Alvarez, Maidana, Maidana

So, I've concluded the average delusional hype fan, like the one who created this topic,
finds Manny's greatness during that run, which is absurd.
Floyd performed better against equal to slightly better opposition.
Therefore, Manny's greatness is tied to the Morales and Barrera wins in the minds of true boxing fans.

So, Manny's career comes in two halves. The first is where he got real boxing "street cred".
In the second, he got mainstream appeal.
Real fans tend to rate wins over A+ fighters very highly so I understand why Manny's early career is held in such high regard.
Then again, it seems like the absolute brilliance that was Floyd's early career has been reduced to
a big win over Corrales
and more importantly, a disputed win over Corrales
which is very unfair and biased.

But whatever.

manny had more fights, fought overall better opponents and simply had an overall more impressiv career

both had losses, both had draws, both had incredible careers, but pacquiao's is mroe impressiv.

the reason, just scroll down pacs record and watch how many good guys he fought from small to tall and compare that to floyds career.

I get amazed at every topic that STILL turns into Pac vs Floyd.
The topic is always argued by the same fucktards that just won't drop the damned subject.