BoxRec

mike john wrote:

Bigdogsnose wrote: Kell Brook – IBF Champion

Tim Bradley – WBO Champion

Danny Garcia – Already sparked Khan out and is unbeaten

(My personal feeling is Thurman is going to prove to be best of the lot, but does need to go out and prove it)

It shouldn't all be about Pac and Mayweather (retired?!), But Amirs the one who keeps banging on that drum.

with as undisputed a champion as floyd mayweather at the top of ones division, those titles mean what exactly? marketing tools, nothing more
when you look at who's actually beaten who, no-one stands clearly above khan at welter.

i agree, if and when keith thurman beats shawn porter, he will be clear number one challenger.

The Belts are starting to mean less and less...but even as marketing tool, surely that gives you more bargaining when trying to make these fights.

I think its time for the division to move on from PAC + Mayweather. With Brook and Bradley both fighting top 10 welters in their next fights, that's a start. Need to start seeing all these match up against each other and really see where we are at. Khans next fight needs to be a top 10 welter - Garcia or Porter.

mike john wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote: So do you agree that Garcia has done more to earn it than khan?

Does Bradley getting the W over khan mean more than anything khan has done on top of being wbo champ?

I do think the welters should fight each other to start eliminating the actual contenders. Brook v Khan would be a great starting point to select our representative

i wasnt aware garcia had fought at welterweight in his last few fights, so i would make him more worthy of a challenge to the title, yes.

i dont understand your comment regarding bradley having a win over khan?
id probably put bradley ahead of khan also

Wasn't his last fight at welter and the rest at a catchweight? As the no1 lww stepping up with big wins on his resumé including ko'ing Khan, then i would say he is more.

I was stuck in a massive traffic jam on the m42 when i posted that yesterday, it was meant to say his win over pacquiao.

Khan has let himself down over the last few years. While others have jockeyed for position, he's been reluctant to do anything other than run his mouth

I can't see the Khan vs Pacquaio fight ever happening. I think it's more likely that Pacquaio will fight an undefeated American (someone like Keith Thurman or Danny Garcia).

Those would be the most attractive options to Pacquaio and Top Rank - rather than looking at a previously defeated British fighter which Khan is.

G0mez, I think that you are being overly-critical of Khan.

G0mez wrote:which leaves Collazo (rumuored to be an alcoholic) Alexander whom was defeated by Shawn Porter.

Collazo is a former WBA Welterweight Champion, who only lost his belt to none other than Ricky Hatton (and even at that - gave Ricky a tough night)
Alexander is a former Unified Light Welterweight Champion & also won a IBF World Welterweight title.

There has to come a certain amount of credibility to Amir's name when he's defeating guys like these of a certain pedigree... I would also add that Amir isn't just defeating them, he is systematically outboxing them and winning the fights by convincing margins.

Credit where credit is due here....

G0mez wrote:to fight a guy floored six times by Pacquiao in Algieri on terrestial television - and then proceeded to get wobbled and look completely average.

Really? you're actually criticizing Khan for fights that he's actually won... Bottom like, you can try to piss on his performances if you wish, but the guy has won these fights and dismissed these opponents out of hand.

I would also add that I don't remember this amount of scorn or ill-will toward Pacman when he took the Algieri fight.

Bigdogsnose wrote:

mike john wrote:

Bigdogsnose wrote: Kell Brook – IBF Champion

Tim Bradley – WBO Champion

Danny Garcia – Already sparked Khan out and is unbeaten

(My personal feeling is Thurman is going to prove to be best of the lot, but does need to go out and prove it)

It shouldn't all be about Pac and Mayweather (retired?!), But Amirs the one who keeps banging on that drum.

with as undisputed a champion as floyd mayweather at the top of ones division, those titles mean what exactly? marketing tools, nothing more
when you look at who's actually beaten who, no-one stands clearly above khan at welter.

i agree, if and when keith thurman beats shawn porter, he will be clear number one challenger.

The Belts are starting to mean less and less...but even as marketing tool, surely that gives you more bargaining when trying to make these fights.

I think its time for the division to move on from PAC + Mayweather. With Brook and Bradley both fighting top 10 welters in their next fights, that's a start. Need to start seeing all these match up against each other and really see where we are at. Khans next fight needs to be a top 10 welter - Garcia or Porter.

more bargaining power, yes, but my point isnt who is more likely to land the big fight, its who deserves it more

Boxerbeetle wrote:I enjoy nothing more than reading about Khan's plans for the future.

They do make for a lot of reading.

Khan talks a lot about who he wants to fight, but he doesn't do a lot of fighting.

He's talked about fighting so many guys that I'm starting to lose count.

My only surprise is that he hasn't mentioned Thomas Hearns as a potential opponent!

freddydoesdallas wrote: Wasn't his last fight at welter and the rest at a catchweight? As the no1 lww stepping up with big wins on his resumé including ko'ing Khan, then i would say he is more.

I was stuck in a massive traffic jam on the m42 when i posted that yesterday, it was meant to say his win over pacquiao.

Khan has let himself down over the last few years. While others have jockeyed for position, he's been reluctant to do anything other than run his mouth

couldnt tell you if they were catchweight fights, i saw the peterson fight and just assumed it was a jnr welter bout

i disagree with you last comment, he could have done more, but so could all the welterweights.

it looked like khan had indeed landed the mayweather fight, and was unlucky when floyd went for maidana instead. same situation with the pacquaio fight falling through. if either of these fights came off, the last few years would have been entirely justified, and they didnt happen through no fault to amir.

now that the mayweather and pacquiao fights have fallen by the wayside, now is the time to criticise khan IF he doesnt make a worthwhile fight. going forward there is now no excuse, and im just seeing that he's targeting tim bradley and danny garcia, so hopefully these fights can happen.

mike john wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote: Wasn't his last fight at welter and the rest at a catchweight? As the no1 lww stepping up with big wins on his resumé including ko'ing Khan, then i would say he is more.

I was stuck in a massive traffic jam on the m42 when i posted that yesterday, it was meant to say his win over pacquiao.

Khan has let himself down over the last few years. While others have jockeyed for position, he's been reluctant to do anything other than run his mouth

couldnt tell you if they were catchweight fights, i saw the peterson fight and just assumed it was a jnr welter bout

i disagree with you last comment, he could have done more, but so could all the welterweights.

it looked like khan had indeed landed the mayweather fight, and was unlucky when floyd went for maidana instead. same situation with the pacquaio fight falling through. if either of these fights came off, the last few years would have been entirely justified, and they didnt happen through no fault to amir.

now that the mayweather and pacquiao fights have fallen by the wayside, now is the time to criticise khan IF he doesnt make a worthwhile fight. going forward there is now no excuse, and im just seeing that he's targeting tim bradley and danny garcia, so hopefully these fights can happen.

Was he unlucky or was he making unrealistic demands? You seem to want to put all of the blame with Mayweather of Pacquiao. Money seems to be the stumbling block as per usual in boxing, is this down to Khan overvaluing himself? He thinks he is a star but what would he bring to the table for Pacquiao or Mayweather other than just being another good level welterweight? His ppv numbers in the UK aren't great, Mayweather and Pacquiao have both done bigger numbers than him, he doesn't bring fans over like Hatton did and Americans aren't going to suddenly buy the fight just because Khan is the opponent. They will tune in to watch Mayweather or Pacquiao.

Khan thinks he should earn a bigger slice of the pie than his rivals but he doesn't bring enough with him to get that bigger slice.

Crease wrote:G0mez, I think that you are being overly-critical of Khan.

G0mez wrote:which leaves Collazo (rumuored to be an alcoholic) Alexander whom was defeated by Shawn Porter.

Collazo is a former WBA Welterweight Champion, who only lost his belt to none other than Ricky Hatton (and even at that - gave Ricky a tough night)
Alexander is a former Unified Light Welterweight Champion & also won a IBF World Welterweight title.

There has to come a certain amount of credibility to Amir's name when he's defeating guys like these of a certain pedigree... I would also add that Amir isn't just defeating them, he is systematically outboxing them and winning the fights by convincing margins.

Credit where credit is due here....

G0mez wrote:to fight a guy floored six times by Pacquiao in Algieri on terrestial television - and then proceeded to get wobbled and look completely average.

Really? you're actually criticizing Khan for fights that he's actually won... Bottom like, you can try to piss on his performances if you wish, but the guy has won these fights and dismissed these opponents out of hand.

I would also add that I don't remember this amount of scorn or ill-will toward Pacman when he took the Algieri fight.

Khan boxed brilliantly against Collazo, boxed his ears off. I bet money on Collazo knocking Khan out, based on how mediocre he was against Diaz and that was below 147.

But as good as Amir was, Luis was utterly wreckless and appalling and then a few places threw up in the aftermath that he'd been training in the pub - and it was even mentioned by Virgil during one corner break (unless I'm mistaken) that he was an alcoholic or something.

But with regards Algieri - you are missing my point.

He had Brook/Box Office / Wembley on a plate - was tweeting about Mayweather fight being announced shortly, then him and Broner have a (phony) beef on Twitter... it all looked promising.

And then he unveiled Algieri whom was coming off a whupping. Pacquiao beat him 120 - 102.

Leading all the fans up the garden path, and then picking Algieri out of nowhere, lead to a huge backlash of disappointment.

He says a fight with Brook "Doesn't interest me at this time." and yet finds Algieri interesting ?

I see Devon Alexander lost to a journeyman this week.

freddydoesdallas wrote:

mike john wrote:

freddydoesdallas wrote: Wasn't his last fight at welter and the rest at a catchweight? As the no1 lww stepping up with big wins on his resumé including ko'ing Khan, then i would say he is more.

I was stuck in a massive traffic jam on the m42 when i posted that yesterday, it was meant to say his win over pacquiao.

Khan has let himself down over the last few years. While others have jockeyed for position, he's been reluctant to do anything other than run his mouth

couldnt tell you if they were catchweight fights, i saw the peterson fight and just assumed it was a jnr welter bout

i disagree with you last comment, he could have done more, but so could all the welterweights.

it looked like khan had indeed landed the mayweather fight, and was unlucky when floyd went for maidana instead. same situation with the pacquaio fight falling through. if either of these fights came off, the last few years would have been entirely justified, and they didnt happen through no fault to amir.

now that the mayweather and pacquiao fights have fallen by the wayside, now is the time to criticise khan IF he doesnt make a worthwhile fight. going forward there is now no excuse, and im just seeing that he's targeting tim bradley and danny garcia, so hopefully these fights can happen.

Was he unlucky or was he making unrealistic demands? You seem to want to put all of the blame with Mayweather of Pacquiao. Money seems to be the stumbling block as per usual in boxing, is this down to Khan overvaluing himself? He thinks he is a star but what would he bring to the table for Pacquiao or Mayweather other than just being another good level welterweight? His ppv numbers in the UK aren't great, Mayweather and Pacquiao have both done bigger numbers than him, he doesn't bring fans over like Hatton did and Americans aren't going to suddenly buy the fight just because Khan is the opponent. They will tune in to watch Mayweather or Pacquiao.

Khan thinks he should earn a bigger slice of the pie than his rivals but he doesn't bring enough with him to get that bigger slice.

firstly, blame is the wrong word. to say i blame mayweather or pacquiao implies i think they did something wrong. they just decided not to fight him.

secondly, ive read nothing to suggest amir was making unrealistic demands. if that is the case, fair enough. but i dont find it difficult to believe the fights simply didnt happen because mayweather saw maidana and berto as easier fights ( evidenced, i think, by the moneymaking exercise which was the totally unwarrented maidana rematch ), and pacquaio wants the last payday from a floyd rematch.

Crease wrote: Collazo is a former WBA Welterweight Champion, who only lost his belt to none other than Ricky Hatton (and even at that - gave Ricky a tough night)
Alexander is a former Unified Light Welterweight Champion & also won a IBF World Welterweight title.

There has to come a certain amount of credibility to Amir's name when he's defeating guys like these of a certain pedigree...

Collazo won the title 10 years ago and had much publicised mental health problems and alcoholism before the Khan fight :

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/boxing/37694 ... k-on-track

Boxrec have Collazo at no.36.

In Alexanders last 5 fights he became the 10th to beat Jesus Soto Karass (who retired after) and the 4th to beat a weight-drained Lee Purdy. He lost the other 3 and Boxrec have him at no.25.

Bigdogsnose wrote: Be very surprised if he re-matches Garcia next but Peterson maybe a viable option.

peterson has been getting outboxed by diaz, but heading into the last round i wouldn't
be surprised if the judges nullified diaz's work. looking at this version of peterson, i see
khan winning clean in a rematch at welter.

Pugilist-specialist wrote:

Crease wrote: Collazo is a former WBA Welterweight Champion, who only lost his belt to none other than Ricky Hatton (and even at that - gave Ricky a tough night)
Alexander is a former Unified Light Welterweight Champion & also won a IBF World Welterweight title.

There has to come a certain amount of credibility to Amir's name when he's defeating guys like these of a certain pedigree...

Collazo won the title 10 years ago and had much publicised mental health problems and alcoholism before the Khan fight :

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/boxing/37694 ... k-on-track

Boxrec have Collazo at no.36.

In Alexanders last 5 fights he became the 10th to beat Jesus Soto Karass (who retired after) and the 4th to beat a weight-drained Lee Purdy. He lost the other 3 and Boxrec have him at no.25.

Yeah, I mean, why doesn't Khan read tabloids and do appropriate amounts of math before his professional fights?

Also, he should be aware of what his opponents will do after, so he'll need a time machine.

Bobbyptsd wrote:Yeah, I mean, why doesn't Khan read tabloids and do appropriate amounts of math before his professional fights?
Also, he should be aware of what his opponents will do after, so he'll need a time machine.

G0mez wrote:
But as good as Amir was, Luis was utterly wreckless and appalling and then a few places threw up in the aftermath that he'd been training in the pub - and it was even mentioned by Virgil during one corner break (unless I'm mistaken) that he was an alcoholic or something.

well, if you need real insight into what's going on in a boxer's life, where else would you look for it but in the trainer of his opponent?