BoxRec

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote: I'm glad someone said it. Also, fwiw, Ottke's overall record was considerably better than Wlad's.

man wrote:no.

Yes. And someone like Michalczewski's was too. Where was Dariusz ever in the p4p conversations? He might have sneaked in at some point in the early 00s, but I don't recall. OK, Klit's probably in there, just. But still. Boxing must be pretty weak right now to have Wlad in the p4p top 10.

no.

wlad
dariusz
ottke

that is the order of their record without
any discussion. i loved dariusz, but you
cannot deny he preferred to fight at home
and that simply harms your p4p credibility.

did roy jones duck him? in a sense and for
some time probably. roy would have fought
him had he got the same work ethic as DLH.

man wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote: I'm glad someone said it. Also, fwiw, Ottke's overall record was considerably better than Wlad's.

man wrote:no.

Yes. And someone like Michalczewski's was too. Where was Dariusz ever in the p4p conversations? He might have sneaked in at some point in the early 00s, but I don't recall. OK, Klit's probably in there, just. But still. Boxing must be pretty weak right now to have Wlad in the p4p top 10.

no.

wlad
dariusz
ottke

that is the order of their record without
any discussion. i loved dariusz, but you
cannot deny he preferred to fight at home
and that simply harms your p4p credibility.

did roy jones duck him? in a sense and for
some time probably. roy would have fought
him had he got the same work ethic as DLH.

I'm no massive DM fan but he had a couple of legit wins (Hill, Griffin) that rival Wlad's best wins over Haye and Povetkin, and a lot of solid wins that were no worse at all and some better than the dross that plagues Wlad's career (Pianeta, Mormeck, Leapai, Austin, shot Rahman, etc etc etc).

That's before you consider Wlad's 3 losses to substandard foes, being decked and almost stopped by the ordinary Sam Peter, dropped by guys like Pannell, and turning in pedestrian performances against seemingly outgunned foes (Jennings, Ibragimov)

DM didn't always look dynamite himself but he was more consistent IMO and was never as vulnerable as Wlad.

As for Ottke, I can't stand the guy but his opposition was better than DM's in general and I think he was clearly better p4p than Wlad.

Riddick Blowe wrote:DM didn't always look dynamite himself but he was more consistent IMO and was never as vulnerable as Wlad.

As for Ottke, I can't stand the guy but his opposition was better than DM's in general and I think he was clearly better p4p than Wlad.

you're entitled to your opinion. as for ottke though
i think his very name has become synonymous
for padded record. he had a few good opponents
but it is not like he defeated them without any
controversy, and he always preferred to play at
home.

wlad on the other hand without any doubt took
on the best of his era with the exemption of his
brother. one might dispute the quality of the
division or the way wlad fights, but one cannot
accuse him of cherry picking IMHO ...

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

Midget boxing? Like former flyweight champion Manny Pacquao?

147 and below have absolutely dominated boxing the past 15 years.

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

What silliness. Why not factor in which guy is most popular with the ladies or has the coolest name.

dempseyfire wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

Midget boxing? Like former flyweight champion Manny Pacquao?

147 and below have absolutely dominated boxing the past 15 years.

Yes. Pacman was not relevant in the boxing world until he beat Barrera.

So if pacquiao and Barrera had both weighed 110 pounds, that fight wouldn't have mattered?

johnswan1 wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:The P4P no.1 needs to be somebody who is marketable. Gonzalez's marketability like it or not is limited because midget boxing will always carry minority interest. On that basis, GGG should get the recognition as P4P no.1.

Here's a question, what is the lowest weight division to headline a major (i.e. HBO/Showtime) PPV? Has there ever even been one at Featherweight?

Midget boxing? Like former flyweight champion Manny Pacquao?

147 and below have absolutely dominated boxing the past 15 years.

Yes. Pacman was not relevant in the boxing world until he beat Barrera.

Which was at FEATHERWEIGHT. Not sure how pointing that out is helping your point. Barrera, Morales, Pac, Naseem were all involved in multiple PPV successes . . .many more than their contemporaries at heavyweight . . .of which beyond the Lewis-Tyson charade were in a bunch of PPV duds. Vitali-Danny Williams anyone??

squiggy wrote:So if pacquiao and Barrera had both weighed 110 pounds, that fight wouldn't have mattered?

Well it probably wouldn't have been on US TV.

dempseyfire wrote: Which was at FEATHERWEIGHT. Not sure how pointing that out is helping your point. Barrera, Morales, Pac, Naseem were all involved in multiple PPV successes . . .many more than their contemporaries at heavyweight . . .of which beyond the Lewis-Tyson charade were in a bunch of PPV duds. Vitali-Danny Williams anyone??

Are you talking United States PPVs?

Hamed and Barrera were only ever in one - at Featherweight. Morales was in three against Pacman - at Super Featherweight.

So in the whole history of PPV boxing in the US, only one Featherweight fight has headlined a PPV and no fight ever below that weight has headlined one.

This proves my point.

I know they are 10lbs apart, but what are the chances he could fight Rigo? They are about the same height and similar reach I think. It would be a great fight. Roman is a great fighter, but just not much competition at his weight.

kidbazooka1 wrote:

Chepppaaa wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:Wow the kid is as complete a fighter as there is in boxing today.

His arsenal of shots and positioning is just remarkable, a real treat to watch and at 28 he has a long dominant career ahead of him.

44 fights 0 losses, against very quality opposition

and like you said, his footowork etc is top of the top, he is the new 1

No doubt about it imo.

Gonzalez has it all a very high level text book fighter.

I Love to watch gonzalez in the ring his footwork and stamina is perfect, he is the real, real champion.

If it happened below Bantamweight it didn't happen.

and like you said, his footowork etc is top of the top, he is the new 1[/quote]

No doubt about it imo.

Gonzalez has it all a very high level text book fighter.[/quote]

I Love to watch gonzalez in the ring his footwork and stamina is perfect, he is the real, real champion.[/quote]


__________________________________________________________________________________________________

his punch variation, simply his all around game is mountain high, above everybody except ~2 names like loma or rigo...

johnswan1 wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: Which was at FEATHERWEIGHT. Not sure how pointing that out is helping your point. Barrera, Morales, Pac, Naseem were all involved in multiple PPV successes . . .many more than their contemporaries at heavyweight . . .of which beyond the Lewis-Tyson charade were in a bunch of PPV duds. Vitali-Danny Williams anyone??

Are you talking United States PPVs?

Hamed and Barrera were only ever in one - at Featherweight. Morales was in three against Pacman - at Super Featherweight.

So in the whole history of PPV boxing in the US, only one Featherweight fight has headlined a PPV and no fight ever below that weight has headlined one.

.

You are wrong, there have been many. Carbajal-Gonzales was a PPV headline all the way back in 1993.

Badhusker wrote:I know they are 10lbs apart, but what are the chances he could fight Rigo? They are about the same height and similar reach I think. It would be a great fight. Roman is a great fighter, but just not much competition at his weight.

Untrue. At Flyweight he's got the rematch with Estrada and potential fights with the likes of Ruenrong, Ioka, and Reveco. 3 pounds north he's got Inoue and Cuadras.

By the time he moves up as high as 118 or 122 (which is pretty unlikely, I'd say), Rigo will be an afterthought in the minds of boxing fans.

Did Gonzalez secure that title now to all you guys claiming Klits was the number 1?

kidbazooka1 wrote:Did Gonzalez secure that title now to all you guys claiming Klits was the number 1?

Nope. I agree with Bobby:

Bobbyptsd wrote:I could see Gonzalez or Golovkin being #1. If someone suggested Kovalev they'd get no argument from me. I would mention Ward, but that's hard to say when his last win over two years is an unmotivated Paul Smith. If Inoue recovers (he was injured to my understanding) and becomes active again I think he could certainly be mentioned.

Basically, I don't think it's that clear, there are other contenders to what's always going to be a subjective title. But that's pretty much always true in boxing.

ikorolev wrote:

kidbazooka1 wrote:Did Gonzalez secure that title now to all you guys claiming Klits was the number 1?

Nope. I agree with Bobby:

Bobbyptsd wrote:I could see Gonzalez or Golovkin being #1. If someone suggested Kovalev they'd get no argument from me. I would mention Ward, but that's hard to say when his last win over two years is an unmotivated Paul Smith. If Inoue recovers (he was injured to my understanding) and becomes active again I think he could certainly be mentioned.

Basically, I don't think it's that clear, there are other contenders to what's always going to be a subjective title. But that's pretty much always true in boxing.

Not surprised at all.