BoxRec

Naandrew wrote:
Lewis won the European title in his 14th fight as a pro dunno if the guy he beat was good though.

No, Jean Maurice Chanet was an overblown light heavyweight - a circus strongman who was basically a journeyman who
got lucky (twice) against Derek Williams, but Lewis only stopped Chanet on cuts, and if I am right, he couldn't floor him.

And a fight people tend to forget when talking about Lewis and his legacy was Ossie Ocasio - he went the distance with Lewis
bamboozled him, made him look clueless at times whilst surviving the distance (comfortably).

Now, if you had saw those two performances, and at the time without the benefit of hindsight, then you would come away thinking
Lewis isn't going to amount to a whole lot. This is boxing, right? An unimpressive performance against an unimpressive opponent does
not a career make.

lillywhite14 wrote:What's to say this upcoming era of heavyweights won't produce a crop of top class men that will give Joshua the stern tests needed to secure a legacy approaching someone like Lewis'?

The re-introduction of capitalism to Cuba - watch this space my man, that will single handedly transform professional boxing like the fall of the Berlin Wall did (and for the better). You are going to find a lot of the heavyweight top ten in the next 5-10 years having a very heavily flavoured Hispanic theme to it all.

Lennox was a lot more natural and fluid for me with as the above poster said, more going on upstairs. AJ is big, strong, textbook jab, textbook back hand etc and he is improving, but he has a real robotic Bruno look about him.

Although the heavyweight division is heating up atm. Its still went backwards even since lewis,s time in terms of boxing skills. Guys like gary cornish are basically part time fighters.

That martin the heavyweight champion of the world. Has never had an s and c coach up until the joshua fight. Even the guys lewis fought might have been domestic level around 14 fights but they were a lot handier than todays heavyweights around that same level. You ve got guys that are basically part time fighters. Some of them old out of shape part time fighters at that.

I really think the sport science aspect that the top guys use doesnt really allow for comparisons anyway. Nowadays they re learning how to be stronger but at the expense of boxing skills. Go back and look at the boxing skills of lewis,s opponents or lewis then look at joshuas and joshua. Lewis,s are way better imo. But with the strength work and advancements in training etc...joshua would maybe even have beaten lewis 14 fights in. As hard as that is to believe for some. Makes comparisons moot. Because lewis was far and away the better boxer. And joshuas probably the stronger more explosive man 14 fights in.

Two different eras all things not equal with the advancements in sport science etc. They ve foregone boxing skills for strength. Explosiveness etc.

Lennox definitely looked more natural to me as a sportsman and athlete in general, doesn't surprise me that he competed to a high level in other sports. Just has the look of one of those guys that would have been good at whatever sport he chose to dedicate himself to.

The power thing is interesting to me though. Joshua is obviously blowing guys away, but his power doesn't seem to be as concussive as Lennox's was. Plenty of his opponents have been stopped on their feet or, in Charles Martin's case, quit. Obviously Lennox went the distance a few times but he seemed to have a different type of power, like he could genuinely knock you unconscious with his right hand.

Comparing the two is pretty difficult and almost pointless. Lennox more athletic, a more seasoned amateur, better skillset, probably hit harder. I don't see Joshua getting anywhere near the skill and talent levels that Lewis reached as a boxer.

However at this stage Joshua is ahead on paper as he has a version of a world title. Though even then comparisons are almost impossible, the depth in the heavyweight division of the late 80s to late 90s was light-years ahead of the scene today.

As others have already said, Joshua reminds me more of Bruno. Possibly slightly more athletic but the similarities in style are there. The media image is a slightly modernised, less panto version of Bruno's as well.

Joshua must be a dream to train. He is eager to learn the skills he needs. That is pretty much how he has got a World ( and Olympic ) title. He started late and is still learning.

Lewis had been boxing far longer than Joshua and looked a more natural, fluid fighter.

That's why Joshua has the look of Bruno about him. I'm not sure we will ever see the best possible Joshua due to his late start in the sport. He has a lot of learning to do and his eagerness to learn is helping but I think by the time he learns most of the tricks of the trade he may be past his 'physical' best. They may not synchronise during his career.

However, I don't think you can say he doesn't have the natural talent of Lewis, it's just that the potential may not have been unlocked yet.

For that reason.....it's Lewis all the way.

There is no way that Lennox is even nearly as humble as AJ.

Fat Git wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:What's to say this upcoming era of heavyweights won't produce a crop of top class men that will give Joshua the stern tests needed to secure a legacy approaching someone like Lewis'?

The re-introduction of capitalism to Cuba - watch this space my man, that will single handedly transform professional boxing like the fall of the Berlin Wall did (and for the better). You are going to find a lot of the heavyweight top ten in the next 5-10 years having a very heavily flavoured Hispanic theme to it all.

I hungrily await the day Jorge Luis Gonzalez Jnr battles Odlanier Solis II for the undisputed WBA heavyweight championship of the world!

Boxing Writer wrote: He looked far from good against old small cruiserweight Ossie Ocasio, glass-jawed bum Levi Billups (he didn't even stop them).

Bloody hell. Imagine going 10 rounds on your feet with Lennox Lewis, absorbing some ghastly full-blooded power shots along the way, right after doing 10 rounds with Bonecrusher Smith, climbing off the floor with a broken jaw to scrape the win - only to be called a "glass-jawed bum" by some fat fingered blogger 20 years later. Requiem for a heavyweight.

To be fair AJ took a couple of big shots from Dillon White & whilst he wobbled he composed himself & finished him in ruthless fashion.


quote="johnswan1"]Some good points.

The biggest question over AJ is whether he is a natural fighter. By that I mean, what happens when he gets hit. Can he take a punch and if he's under pressure does he remain calm and cover up, does he know how to survive if he gets hurt? Can he pick himself up and fight on when everything is against him?

The guy hasn't had a single competitive round his whole pro career so far and is severely lacking in rounds experience.

Go back to any of the greatest champions or hardest hitters in the sports history and you will see that the one thing they all had in common is that they had tough fights on their way up and often also close fights which helped their development.

On paper this is the first guy who isn't just perceived as durable but also one who poses a legitimate threat, unlike Cornish who although young and undefeated had no power and was completely out of his depth and old farts who were once durable but are now at the end of their careers.[/quote]

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:What's to say this upcoming era of heavyweights won't produce a crop of top class men that will give Joshua the stern tests needed to secure a legacy approaching someone like Lewis'?

The re-introduction of capitalism to Cuba - watch this space my man, that will single handedly transform professional boxing like the fall of the Berlin Wall did (and for the better). You are going to find a lot of the heavyweight top ten in the next 5-10 years having a very heavily flavoured Hispanic theme to it all.

I hungrily await the day Jorge Luis Gonzalez Jnr battles Odlanier Solis II for the undisputed WBA heavyweight championship of the world!

That's right Jim - those two boxers signify a whole amateur programme as successful as the Cuban one - probably the most successful one that has ever been produced in the history of the sport... if you think that is the best they are going to produce once they are let out into the world of capitalism, then you need your head read.

I jest. I would welcome a wave of dynamic violent Cuban heavies to rid us of these mechanical, methodical Eastern European bores.

95gerog wrote:I struggle to see any noteworthy comparisons yet, but maybe when Joshua is tested i might. Joshua seems much slower on his feet than Lewis. Lewis was a great thinker in the ring, and Joshua hasn't had to think too much as yet.

This is a fair point.

Gary Mason alone is better than everyone Joshua has fought.

Fat Git wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:What's to say this upcoming era of heavyweights won't produce a crop of top class men that will give Joshua the stern tests needed to secure a legacy approaching someone like Lewis'?

The re-introduction of capitalism to Cuba - watch this space my man, that will single handedly transform professional boxing like the fall of the Berlin Wall did (and for the better). You are going to find a lot of the heavyweight top ten in the next 5-10 years having a very heavily flavoured Hispanic theme to it all.

Perhaps, that's the hope anyway. The truth is we might see even fatter versions of Solis and co!

Tuan_Jim wrote:I jest. I would welcome a wave of dynamic violent Cuban heavies to rid us of these mechanical, methodical Eastern European bores.

Thank God for that! We need to be rid of these awful Eastern Euros...

lillywhite14 wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:What's to say this upcoming era of heavyweights won't produce a crop of top class men that will give Joshua the stern tests needed to secure a legacy approaching someone like Lewis'?

The re-introduction of capitalism to Cuba - watch this space my man, that will single handedly transform professional boxing like the fall of the Berlin Wall did (and for the better). You are going to find a lot of the heavyweight top ten in the next 5-10 years having a very heavily flavoured Hispanic theme to it all.

Perhaps, that's the hope anyway. The truth is we might see even fatter versions of Solis and co!

You will, and you will see some shit hot fighters also,Solis, Gonzalez and co were the cream of their crop and turned over very very late as pros - I think now, the ones that turn over at 22 or so and still have that hunger will be a force to be reckoned with.

But you will get some crap fighters with the good ones, always the case.

lillywhite14 wrote:

Fat Git wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:What's to say this upcoming era of heavyweights won't produce a crop of top class men that will give Joshua the stern tests needed to secure a legacy approaching someone like Lewis'?

The re-introduction of capitalism to Cuba - watch this space my man, that will single handedly transform professional boxing like the fall of the Berlin Wall did (and for the better). You are going to find a lot of the heavyweight top ten in the next 5-10 years having a very heavily flavoured Hispanic theme to it all.

Perhaps, that's the hope anyway. The truth is we might see even fatter versions of Solis and co!

A fatter version of Solis?

That isn't humanly possible!!