Lennox confused by Fury words

[HomicideHenry]

All the points you make are valid indeed but if fury was to beat a prime lewis i'd be absolutely shocked,well lets be honest it just wouldn't happen,lewis lost both fights being hit with huge right hands,something fury has never once shown capable of producing.

How many people would have EVER thought someone would be capable of out boxing, and winning a decision over Vladimir Klitschko? He's never lost a points decision in his life. Knockouts, yes, but never being out hustled. I was one of the VERY few who said it from the start years ago, that Fury would be the man to do it and rather easily. I can't help but think most who are sticking up for Lewis, are just nostalgic Britains who can't let go of yesteryear. It reminds me of people who still want to elevate Henry Cooper up as something great, when the man crumpled anytime he stepped up.

Just because Lewis lost to guys with powerful right hands, doesn't mean he wouldn't lose to Fury. Muhammad Ali outright lost to Jimmy Young, but was given the decision. I think Lewis could be outboxed. Why? Because (again) Lewis nor Klitschko has ever fought someone like Fury. A man nearly seven feet in height, who can switch from orthodox to southpaw, with fast hands, great ring generalship, who can change tactics and do it every fight. He's never the same fighter. What you see with one man, is not the same with another.

I suppose the question to be asked is..... just how much greater (supposedly) was Lennox Lewis, than Vladimir Klitschko?

Lewis wasn't able to dominate like Klitschko, and the opposition was virtually the same. Just because (for a time) he shared the same era as Tyson and Holyfield and Bowe?... The fact is, Klitschko and Fury both could have beaten the Mike Tyson that Lewis defeated, as well as the Holyfield that Lewis defeated. They were too small and too old. The best man he ever beaten, in my estimation, was Ray Mercer and that fight was almost life and death. One can even make the case Mercer should have won.

[Monte Fisto]

All the points you make are valid indeed but if fury was to beat a prime lewis i'd be absolutely shocked,well lets be honest it just wouldn't happen,lewis lost both fights being hit with huge right hands,something fury has never once shown capable of producing.

How many people would have EVER thought someone would be capable of out boxing, and winning a decision over Vladimir Klitschko? He's never lost a points decision in his life. Knockouts, yes, but never being out hustled. I was one of the VERY few who said it from the start years ago, that Fury would be the man to do it and rather easily. I can't help but think most who are sticking up for Lewis, are just nostalgic Britains who can't let go of yesteryear. It reminds me of people who still want to elevate Henry Cooper up as something great, when the man crumpled anytime he stepped up.


Just because Lewis lost to guys with powerful right hands, doesn't mean he wouldn't lose to Fury. Muhammad Ali outright lost to Jimmy Young, but was given the decision. I think Lewis could be outboxed. Why? Because (again) Lewis nor Klitschko has ever fought someone like Fury. A man nearly seven feet in height, who can switch from orthodox to southpaw, with fast hands, great ring generalship, who can change tactics and do it every fight. He's never the same fighter. What you see with one man, is not the same with another.

I suppose the question to be asked is..... just how much greater (supposedly) was Lennox Lewis, than Vladimir Klitschko?

Lewis wasn't able to dominate like Klitschko, and the opposition was virtually the same. Just because (for a time) he shared the same era as Tyson and Holyfield and Bowe?... The fact is, Klitschko and Fury both could have beaten the Mike Tyson that Lewis defeated, as well as the Holyfield that Lewis defeated. They were too small and too old. The best man he ever beaten, in my estimation, was Ray Mercer and that fight was almost life and death. One can even make the case Mercer should have won.

You really need that question answering?.?.? Lennox was soo much better I don't know where to start. But it seems your intent in keeping them all in similar leagues, so good luck convincing the rest of the population..

[bigjack]

All the points you make are valid indeed but if fury was to beat a prime lewis i'd be absolutely shocked,well lets be honest it just wouldn't happen,lewis lost both fights being hit with huge right hands,something fury has never once shown capable of producing.

How many people would have EVER thought someone would be capable of out boxing, and winning a decision over Vladimir Klitschko? He's never lost a points decision in his life. Knockouts, yes, but never being out hustled. I was one of the VERY few who said it from the start years ago, that Fury would be the man to do it and rather easily. I can't help but think most who are sticking up for Lewis, are just nostalgic Britains who can't let go of yesteryear. It reminds me of people who still want to elevate Henry Cooper up as something great, when the man crumpled anytime he stepped up.


Just because Lewis lost to guys with powerful right hands, doesn't mean he wouldn't lose to Fury. Muhammad Ali outright lost to Jimmy Young, but was given the decision. I think Lewis could be outboxed. Why? Because (again) Lewis nor Klitschko has ever fought someone like Fury. A man nearly seven feet in height, who can switch from orthodox to southpaw, with fast hands, great ring generalship, who can change tactics and do it every fight. He's never the same fighter. What you see with one man, is not the same with another.

I suppose the question to be asked is..... just how much greater (supposedly) was Lennox Lewis, than Vladimir Klitschko?

Lewis wasn't able to dominate like Klitschko, and the opposition was virtually the same. Just because (for a time) he shared the same era as Tyson and Holyfield and Bowe?... The fact is, Klitschko and Fury both could have beaten the Mike Tyson that Lewis defeated, as well as the Holyfield that Lewis defeated. They were too small and too old. The best man he ever beaten, in my estimation, was Ray Mercer and that fight was almost life and death. One can even make the case Mercer should have won.

You really need that question answering?.?.? Lennox was soo much better I don't know where to start. But it seems your intent in keeping them all in similar leagues, so good luck convincing the rest of the population..

Please henry do us all a favour when you have time,watch all of lewis's fights,then watch all of fury's fights and point out one thing that you think fury had in his favour that would beat lewis,don't say because he's nearly 7 feet tall,because fury is not 6 foot 9 tall,he was clearly the same height as wlad in almost all of the photos,as for young beating ali,what does the record book say ?oh and just for the record i picked fury to beat wlad,look through some of the posts on here pre fight and you'll see,however lewis was superior in every department and you'll never convince me fury would ever beat him,lewis always found a way to win,and usually by savage ko,the last person fury ko'd was a cruiserweight with an illegal blow.

[HomicideHenry]

Please henry do us all a favour when you have time,watch all of lewis's fights,then watch all of fury's fights and point out one thing that you think fury had in his favour that would beat lewis,don't say because he's nearly 7 feet tall,because fury is not 6 foot 9 tall,he was clearly the same height as wlad in almost all of the photos,as for young beating ali,what does the record book say ?

I suppose the question would come down to the following things to consider:

-At age 27 just what had Lennox Lewis accomplished?
-In 25 fights just what had Lennox Lewis accomplished?
-Lennox Lewis lost on knockouts to men he shouldn't
-Fury was dropped by men that he shouldn't

Lewis was born in 1965, so by the year 1992 he was 27. By that time he had already won the Commonwealth title over Razor Ruddock, and the EBU championship (as well as the British BBBC title). In 1993, he would win the WBC title from Tony Tucker and defended that title against Frank Bruno. Now, let's compare that to Tyson Fury: 2x's the BBBC British champion, Commonwealth champion, Irish champion, as well as the EBU championship and WBO International. Three heavyweight title eliminators as well. He's also won (in essence) the lineal heavyweight championship as well as the unified championship. He did this in 25 fights. Lennox Lewis, no offense, accomplished less in 22 fights.

All kidding aside (which there isnt much to kid about), the two men are in exact parallel with one another at this exact same stage of their prospective careers. Whose to say that Fury will not accomplish the same, if not more so, than Lewis? Don't forget, Lewis would lose (on knockout) to McCall just three fights later after winning a fraction of the title. No disrespect to Tony Tucker, but in 1992 he was NOT the true champion of the world, so Lewis defeated a pretender. Fury, on the other hand, defeated the recognized champion.

As to the latter two points (or questions) I made, concerning their losses/weaknesses.... to their credit, Lewis avenged his losses by knockout... Fury on the other hand, got off the canvas to win by knockout... I would argue, in comparison, Fury getting dropped and knocking out Steve Cunningham is more significant than Lewis losing to McCall or Rahman and avenging the losses.... Why? Because both McCall and Rahman were considered laughable, joke defenses. They were fringe contenders at best. They had no real business fighting for the title. Cunningham on the other hand was one of the greatest Cruiserweight title holders ever, and it was considered an even matchup between the two men. In fact, most thought that Cunningham would beat Fury. Outside of the flash knockdown, Fury was in no real danger and despite the many objections made by Cunningham and his fans (alleged illegal tactics, etc) he was on his way out anyways. Had the fight gone on any longer, he would have fell. And what's more? Cunningham, since Fury, has not been kayoed. Cunningham before Fury, was only stopped due to a cut inflicted by a head butt.

The point being.... Tyson Fury is evenly matched with Lewis at this point.... When both men were the same age, both men accomplished the same things (though Fury defeated a dominate champion whereas Lewis didnt). Now, the Lewis who would later go on to fight Morrison, Mercer, Botha, Tua, etc. may be a bit much for Fury at present.... but the Lewis who fought Tucker and Ruddock? It would of been a competitive, interesting fight.... but I see Tyson Fury giving him alot of issues and problems. NEVER FORGET, Lewis was taught by Emmanuel Stewart and it was Stewart who morphed Klitschko into a more defensive fighter in the mold of Lewis and gave warnings that Fury would be the man to watch out for. If Fury is Klitschko's kryptonite and Stewart knew it, who knows what else Stewart may have known concerning Lewis.

[Counter-puncher]

Christ on a bike henry your gypsy fetish is painful to behold.

[SNG]

The Lewis who fought Ruddock would have gotten Tyson out of there in the first two. That version of Lennox is a million miles better than any Tyson Fury we've seen.

[HomicideHenry]

The Lewis who fought Ruddock would have gotten Tyson out of there in the first two. That version of Lennox is a million miles better than any Tyson Fury we've seen.

And how do you know this? This version you say was so much better got bombed out by McCall in two rounds, and McCall wasn't even ranked. Everyone talked how the matchup was a joke. Have you ever considered that Ruddock, was in essence, washed up by this point? Following the Tyson fights he was NEVER the same. There was a huge disconnect between the man who fought Tyson and the man who followed. Alot of it, too, is that Lewis was NOT ever tested to that point. Most men crumbled, or were simply too small.

I would say that Anthony Joshua, in a sense, reminds me of Lennox Lewis. Alot of build up, hype around the man. Lots of talent. But at present time, he hasn't been pressed or tested by anyone. If he can get passed Dillian Whyte, and come out smelling like a boquet of flowers, the hype train will continue. The difference between Tyson Fury and Lewis, is Fury can say that he's been tested so far. It's only after the fact that he wins, does his opposition and victories get diminished. Even as early as Martin Rogan, I remember many picking Rogie to win. Same with Cunningham, same with Chisora. Hell, I am sure there's people out there still convinced that Fury would of lost to David Price had they fought.

I guess we all have to agree to disagree. But what Lewis accomplished at 27, and what Tyson Fury accomplished at 27, is virtually identical. Fury may not look as fluid, or graceful, or have Lewis's punching power.... but I think his speed and awkward style and fast recovery from shots, would make him even with Lewis.

[crusader]

Christ on a bike henry your gypsy fetish is painful to behold.

x2

[SNG]

Tell me what Tyson Fury can do to Lennox Lewis? He isn't a hard enough puncher to stop him, he isn't good enough to outbox him, he hasn't got the chin to last twelve rounds with Lewis who was a great puncher. What can Tyson Fury do?

Oliver McCall would beat Tyson too for what it's worth.

[HomicideHenry]

Tell me what Tyson Fury can do to Lennox Lewis? He isn't a hard enough puncher to stop him, he isn't good enough to outbox him, he hasn't got the chin to last twelve rounds with Lewis who was a great puncher. What can Tyson Fury do?

Oliver McCall would beat Tyson too for what it's worth.

Both men at the same age.... again, Fury has accomplished more at the same stage than Lewis did.... I'm being generous in saying earlier that the two men were on an even level.... Lewis=Tucker, Fury=Klitschko.... there is no comparison in who beat the better opponent for the title. Fury, like Lewis before him, will only get better as time goes on. But I think that history will be more kinder to Fury than say Lewis when it is all said and done. Why? In this era, at least, the men are more evenly sized. Lewis' best wins were against two small, old men. I have no doubt in my mind that Fury could have beaten the same Tyson that Lewis did. I also have no problem in believing Fury would beat the Holyfield that Lewis defeated.

As for your assertion that Fury can't outbox Lewis, again we are talking about the two men at the same age. Based on accomplishments, Fury is ahead of Lewis (slightly) at the same age. It's a bigger question mark than people would think. I think with Fury's long reach, size, speed, awkwardness, ability to switch hit, etc. it would prove problematic to Lewis---- just like it was for Klitschko. However, I will give Lewis more credit, as he was more willing to be explosive in fights than Klitschko. Those moments were few and far between, but he was more willing to do it than Vlad was. Still, I think what you would see is an ugly fight with Lewis not landing enough clean, hard shots---- and Fury landing in spurts, but without much authority. A draw wouldn't be out of the question.

[SNG]

He's achieved more in a far weaker division against the worst Wladimir Klitschko we've ever seen, lets see where they are when Tyson retires. All that is an irrelevance anyway. Lewis would starch Tyson, Tyson simply isn't good enough to be in there with Lewis, particularly the younger more devastating Lewis, the later more thoughtful Lewis would actually be a better fight for Tyson, but he still wouldn't see the final bell. How you can extrapolate anything from the Klitschko fight astounds me, Klitschko was a shell of his former self, he threw fornicate all. I threw more right hands watching the fight than he threw fighting it.

[HomicideHenry]

He's achieved more in a far weaker division against the worst Wladimir Klitschko we've ever seen, lets see where they are when Tyson retires. All that is an irrelevance anyway. Lewis would starch Tyson, Tyson simply isn't good enough to be in there with Lewis, particularly the younger more devastating Lewis, the later more thoughtful Lewis would actually be a better fight for Tyson, but he still wouldn't see the final bell. How you can extrapolate anything from the Klitschko fight astounds me, Klitschko was a shell of his former self, he threw eff all. I threw more right hands watching the fight than he threw fighting it.

Its amazing to me, how you were one of those who felt he would starch Fury prior to the contest.... now all of a sudden he's a shell of his former self and old, washed up... Have you ever considered the possibility that YOU CANT HIT WHAT IS ALWAYS MOVING? YOU CANT HIT WHAT DOESNT GIVE YOU OPPROTUNITIES TO HIT?.... Just another detractor from what Fury accomplished. That's why I wish Vladimir would fight someone else first, someone of substance, like Wilder just to prove he is far from washed up, cus when Fury defeats him again---- everyone is just going to say Vladimir got worse, rather than that Fury has gotten better.

[SNG]

He's achieved more in a far weaker division against the worst Wladimir Klitschko we've ever seen, lets see where they are when Tyson retires. All that is an irrelevance anyway. Lewis would starch Tyson, Tyson simply isn't good enough to be in there with Lewis, particularly the younger more devastating Lewis, the later more thoughtful Lewis would actually be a better fight for Tyson, but he still wouldn't see the final bell. How you can extrapolate anything from the Klitschko fight astounds me, Klitschko was a shell of his former self, he threw eff all. I threw more right hands watching the fight than he threw fighting it.

Its amazing to me, how you were one of those who felt he would starch Fury prior to the contest.... now all of a sudden he's a shell of his former self and old, washed up... Have you ever considered the possibility that YOU CANT HIT WHAT IS ALWAYS MOVING? YOU CANT HIT WHAT DOESNT GIVE YOU OPPROTUNITIES TO HIT?.... Just another detractor from what Fury accomplished. That's why I wish Vladimir would fight someone else first, someone of substance, like Wilder just to prove he is far from washed up, cus when Fury defeats him again---- everyone is just going to say Vladimir got worse, rather than that Fury has gotten better.

When did I say he would starch him? Show me.

I said I thought Wlad would win, I was never particularly emphatic about it.

I also haven't said he's washed up, but use your fornicating eyes, was that the Wlad we've always seen? I can't remember him being that gunshy before.

[HomicideHenry]

When did I say he would starch him? Show me.

I said I thought Wlad would win, I was never particularly emphatic about it.

I also haven't said he's washed up, but use your effing eyes, was that the Wlad we've always seen? I can't remember him being that gunshy before.

Here's the rub..... that's been the biggest complaint of Klitschko's career.... that he never let his hands go enough. As powerful a puncher as he is, as good a boxer as he is, etc. he always seemed more inclined to jab and clinch. The proof? Let's go to CompuBox and compare some numbers. Let's say his last eight fights prior to Fury?

Jennings

Total Punches Thrown: 545
Total Punches Landed: 144
Percentage: 26%

Pulev

Total Punches Thrown: 89
Total Punches Landed: 38
Percentage: 43%

Leapai

Total Punches Thrown: 396
Total Punches Landed: 147
Percentage: 37%

Povetkin

Total Punches Thrown: 417
Total Punches Landed: 139
Percentage: 33%

Pianeta

Total Punches Thrown: 277
Total Punches Landed: 116
Percentage: 42%

Wach

Total Punches Thrown: 693
Total Punches Landed: 274
Percentage: 40%

Thompson

Total Punches Thrown: 121
Total Punches Landed: 51
Percentage: 42%

Now.... the interesting part is..... in fights with men who had speed, or were gifted boxers.... Klitschko's punch rate was far less, and he landed less.... against Haye his numbers were 509 thrown, landing 134.... against Tony Thompson in their first fight the numbers were 411 thrown, 121 landed. As far as anyone can see in the punch stats, Klitschko's work rate never seemed to dip or decrease or really deviate at any time. Only when combated against those with speed, skill, awkwardness, did those numbers ever dip.

The numbers for Klitschko and Fury? Klitschko threw in total 231 punches, landing only 52. Fury threw 371, landing 86. With Fury's herky jerky defense (which reminded me almost of Michael Spinks), and constant jabbing and moving around the ring... he never presented Klitschko the opprotunity to really throw anything in the twelve rounds. Gun shy? Only because he couldn't hit what wasnt available for him to hit. Had Fury been slower, shorter, etc. Klitschko would have had those opprotunities. But the evidence is clear... against fast, skilled men the numbers went down... their issue was being too small, too old, or not having the punch resistence, or not throwing enough to offset Klitschko even more than they did.

[SNG]

Those numbers are with me no? He threw less than 50% of the punches he threw in the fights that went twelve. Gunshy.

[observer1]

Surely this is no more than a publicity exercise?

[HomicideHenry]

Those numbers are with me no? He threw less than 50% of the punches he threw in the fights that went twelve. Gunshy.

Gunshy would imply that Klitschko was A) afraid to throw anything, B) to prove my point that he simply couldn't get off shots because Fury never presented him that many chances to do so.

[Tuan_Jim]

Boxrec posters...

I should warn you that Homicide Henry was a reputation on Boxers of the Past as something of a 'village idiot'. He has been laughed out of numerous threads. He has gone on long, long tangents about 'fights that should have happened' only for other posters to point out to him these fights did happen, famously. And then he usually claims "I've been ill lately" or something. Why he has recently drifted into the UK forum I don't know, but you should know before engaging him that the wiring in his brain is hopelessly faulty and any attempt to speak sense to him will only result in these long confused novellas. Please proceed with caution.

[bigjack]

Surely this is no more than a publicity exercise?

oh right i've got it now it's a piss take,well done Henry you had us all there,i couldn't care less on who achieved what and when,the simple fact is lewis was far better in every department than fury,fury did well to beat wlad,but please,enough with the lewis stuff,you really are making a fool of yourself now.

[bigjack]

Boxrec posters...

I should warn you that Homicide Henry was a reputation on Boxers of the Past as something of a 'village idiot'. He has been laughed out of numerous threads. He has gone on long, long tangents about 'fights that should have happened' only for other posters to point out to him these fights did happen, famously. And then he usually claims "I've been ill lately" or something. Why he has recently drifted into the UK forum I don't know, but you should know before engaging him that the wiring in his brain is hopelessly faulty and any attempt to speak sense to him will only result in these long confused novellas. Please proceed with caution.

Thanks Jim i knew there had to be some kind of reasoning behind it all,i haven't heard such nonsense for ages on here.

[banjo]

Fury outpointed Wlad in a dull fight, Lewis would have damn near killed Wlad had they met when Wlad was a young man.

[banjo]

Also there hasn't been a lineal champion for 12 years, Wlad has never been the undisputed champion.

[Monte Fisto]

Tell me what Tyson Fury can do to Lennox Lewis? He isn't a hard enough puncher to stop him, he isn't good enough to outbox him, he hasn't got the chin to last twelve rounds with Lewis who was a great puncher. What can Tyson Fury do?

Oliver McCall would beat Tyson too for what it's worth.

Both men at the same age.... again, Fury has accomplished more at the same stage than Lewis did.... I'm being generous in saying earlier that the two men were on an even level.... Lewis=Tucker, Fury=Klitschko.... there is no comparison in who beat the better opponent for the title. Fury, like Lewis before him, will only get better as time goes on. But I think that history will be more kinder to Fury than say Lewis when it is all said and done. Why? In this era, at least, the men are more evenly sized. Lewis' best wins were against two small, old men. I have no doubt in my mind that Fury could have beaten the same Tyson that Lewis did. I also have no problem in believing Fury would beat the Holyfield that Lewis defeated.

As for your assertion that Fury can't outbox Lewis, again we are talking about the two men at the same age. Based on accomplishments, Fury is ahead of Lewis (slightly) at the same age. It's a bigger question mark than people would think. I think with Fury's long reach, size, speed, awkwardness, ability to switch hit, etc. it would prove problematic to Lewis---- just like it was for Klitschko. However, I will give Lewis more credit, as he was more willing to be explosive in fights than Klitschko. Those moments were few and far between, but he was more willing to do it than Vlad was. Still, I think what you would see is an ugly fight with Lewis not landing enough clean, hard shots---- and Fury landing in spurts, but without much authority. A draw wouldn't be out of the question.

you need to focus more on eras not the age of them. 1990s era included Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Foreman, Ibeabuchi, Moorer, Douglas, Mccall, Holmes, Mercer, Tua, Morrison, Bruno, Grant, Golota, Tucker, Witherspoon

Match this up with the current lot...Its highly unlikely that Fury is a world champ at his current age in the 90's.

A draw is highly unlikely. A mauling is quite likely.

[Monte Fisto]

Boxrec posters...

I should warn you that Homicide Henry was a reputation on Boxers of the Past as something of a 'village idiot'. He has been laughed out of numerous threads. He has gone on long, long tangents about 'fights that should have happened' only for other posters to point out to him these fights did happen, famously. And then he usually claims "I've been ill lately" or something. Why he has recently drifted into the UK forum I don't know, but you should know before engaging him that the wiring in his brain is hopelessly faulty and any attempt to speak sense to him will only result in these long confused novellas. Please proceed with caution.

Thanks Jim i knew there had to be some kind of reasoning behind it all,i haven't heard such nonsense for ages on here.

just, saw this. noted.

[SNG]

Also there hasn't been a lineal champion for 12 years, Wlad has never been the undisputed champion.

Wladimir became lineal at some point surely? Either against Ibragimov or Chagaev.