BoxRec

G0mez wrote:I think vitali has always been the fighter of the two, the gutsy one.

Whereas Wlad is more a physical specimen, a more tactical fighter but whom lacks the steeliness of his older brother when it truly boils down to it.

He could have bit down and got in the trenches with Fury but instead he let it time out.

A leopard (especially an old one) rarely changes its spots.

big lennox wrote:

G0mez wrote:I think vitali has always been the fighter of the two, the gutsy one.

Whereas Wlad is more a physical specimen, a more tactical fighter but whom lacks the steeliness of his older brother when it truly boils down to it.

He could have bit down and got in the trenches with Fury but instead he let it time out.

A leopard (especially an old one) rarely changes its spots.

Agreed. Vitali is as tough as old boots (mentally and physically). Brendan always used to say to me that there are two types of personality in boxing when it comes to getting hit:

1. Those that get hit and their eyes suddenly go really wide and they panic (to different degrees)
2. Those that get hit, and their eyes narrow and they bite down on their gum shield, ready for revenge.
Wladimir is the former (as was I), and Vitali very much the latter.

Tarkus wrote:I think Klitchko will be a bigger favorite when the fight nears. One win is not enough to prove to the world that you are better then a dominant champion. Fury was a huge underdog.

I think Klitschko can not win with jab and grab approach. To have a chance he needs to employ some of his pre Steward approaches, aggressive combination punching. Interesting thing is that Klitschko in the interview strongly indicated that in fact this is his plan.

I have Fury as a slight favorite like I did before the first fight. But I dont discount Klitschko win at all.

boxingya wrote:

Tarkus wrote:I think Klitchko will be a bigger favorite when the fight nears. One win is not enough to prove to the world that you are better then a dominant champion. Fury was a huge underdog.

I think Klitschko can not win with jab and grab approach. To have a chance he needs to employ some of his pre Steward approaches, aggressive combination punching. Interesting thing is that Klitschko in the interview strongly indicated that in fact this is his plan.

I have Fury as a slight favorite like I did before the first fight. But I dont discount Klitschko win at all.

What interview was that if you don't mind me asking?

Tomasino wrote:

magwitch wrote: Reading between the lines it sounds to me like Wladimir did next to nothing in the fight. I would think that if he has any interest in it whatsoever (unless it's just to nail an extra few mil, before bowing out, which is very possible) - I would think a man like Wladimir would have enough of a grasp on sports psychology to be able off-set the inevitable concession of confidence to Tyson Fury....or if he can't, then work with a sports psychologist.... many fighters don't need this of course, but it works for some.
The question is, if Wladimir turns up full of self-belief, will he revert to type as soon as he gets in the ring?

I really can't see Tyson Fury blowing this money-making belt of his by turning up in anything less than excellent condition.

In summary, if Wladimir boxes at 90-95% of his game, he can win the fight.......however, if Tyson Fury boxes at his best, then I don't think it matters what Wlad does, Tyson will win.

Let me guess...you've not even watched this fight?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

boxingya wrote:

Tarkus wrote:I think Klitchko will be a bigger favorite when the fight nears. One win is not enough to prove to the world that you are better then a dominant champion. Fury was a huge underdog.

I think Klitschko can not win with jab and grab approach. To have a chance he needs to employ some of his pre Steward approaches, aggressive combination punching. Interesting thing is that Klitschko in the interview strongly indicated that in fact this is his plan.

I have Fury as a slight favorite like I did before the first fight. But I dont discount Klitschko win at all.

What interview was that if you don't mind me asking?

Attitude Magazine.

boxingya wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

boxingya wrote: What interview was that if you don't mind me asking?

Attitude Magazine.

I'm sensing a piss take there but ok.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Well I stand corrected.

Anyway, I did agree regarding Fury's movement. I guess none of those other guys utilised their reach well. Still, I think you'd have to concede that Wlad overall enjoyed advantages in height and/or reach for the vast majority of his fights.

Yes, but I can compare Wlad to Lewis here. Lewis looked good against big guys other than Vitali and Wlad looked good too against all his big opponents other than Fury. Both Lewis (37 y.o.) and Wlad (39 y.o.) were slowing down, both were still very good but not in their "prime" anymore and both struggled badly rather because of the opponent's style than his size. The only difference there is that Lewis had balls to turn Vitali fight into brawl and Wlad wanted to stay safe until the last minute of the fight. A lot of people are saying that Lewis got lucky against Vitali, but hey, if he wasn't throwing punches (like Wlad against Fury) he wouldn't cut his face.

Yes, when Lewis saw plan a wasn't panning out - he thought 'right, balls to the wall, I'm going to muller this bredder' - and he did. For all the talk about how well Vitali was doing, Lewis walked through his best shots, and started roughing his man up. It could have ended badly for Lewis, as he took quite a few shots on the way in to get into range and start hurting Vitali, but he was prepared to take that risk.

I'd say the size of both Vitali and Fury were significant however, as neither man could have executed such a strategy without having the height and reach to do so - Vitali was throwing lots of straight shots from range, which nullified Lewis' jab, and Fury used his reach advantage to move around the ring potshotting and unsettling Wlad - in both cases the height and reach were a factor, though not the only factor.

Wlad, is not Lewis, and seemingly preferred to accept his fate, barring a late rounds miracle, rather than get his arse kicked.

For what it's worth, I think Lewis would have eaten Wlad alive.

HomicideHenry wrote:A few points:

1) Klitschko will be another year older

2) Klitschko has made a certain way of fighting his comfort zone for so long, its difficult to see him change it up at this stage

3) Fury will only (surely) improve and have more confidence than he did the first time

4) If Klitschko decides to fight more aggressively, he's taking a gamble that he will gas out and leave himself open to counters; even as a master tactician, Klitschko wears down after so many rounds

5) Fury will more than likely be looking to put an exclaimation point on this fight, and will be more aggressive, to show the first fight was no fluke---- so I see Fury's work rate not only get higher, but his all-around movement increase, making him more difficult to hit

I think the game plan, will be to box the same as before, and following six rounds the pace will increase and Fury will be looking for a stoppage. Klitschko, older and worn down with chasing Fury, trying to be more aggressive, will be worse for wear at this point and Fury will ultimately drop him somewhere between 8-10 rounds. A stoppage TKO will come not long after.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

boxingya wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Attitude Magazine.

I'm sensing a piss take there but ok.

No flies on you....

Boxing Writer wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote: Yes, but I can compare Wlad to Lewis here. Lewis looked good against big guys other than Vitali and Wlad looked good too against all his big opponents other than Fury. Both Lewis (37 y.o.) and Wlad (39 y.o.) were slowing down, both were still very good but not in their "prime" anymore and both struggled badly rather because of the opponent's style than his size. The only difference there is that Lewis had balls to turn Vitali fight into brawl and Wlad wanted to stay safe until the last minute of the fight. A lot of people are saying that Lewis got lucky against Vitali, but hey, if he wasn't throwing punches (like Wlad against Fury) he wouldn't cut his face.

Yes, when Lewis saw plan a wasn't panning out - he thought 'right, balls to the wall, I'm going to muller this bredder' - and he did. For all the talk about how well Vitali was doing, Lewis walked through his best shots, and started roughing his man up. It could have ended badly for Lewis, as he took quite a few shots on the way in to get into range and start hurting Vitali, but he was prepared to take that risk.

I'd say the size of both Vitali and Fury were significant however, as neither man could have executed such a strategy without having the height and reach to do so - Vitali was throwing lots of straight shots from range, which nullified Lewis' jab, and Fury used his reach advantage to move around the ring potshotting and unsettling Wlad - in both cases the height and reach were a factor, though not the only factor.

Wlad, is not Lewis, and seemingly preferred to accept his fate, barring a late rounds miracle, rather than get his arse kicked.

For what it's worth, I think Lewis would have eaten Wlad alive.

I think Lewis played a very risky game against Vitali and mostly not because he got hit a lot in the process since Vitali, unlike his brother, never was a huge puncher. The main risk for Lewis was losing his energy. Vitaly looked tired after round 6, but Lewis looked completely exhausted. He spent so much energy, that he collapsed to his stool like a sack of potatoes after round 6. I think 2 more rounds and Lewis would be barely able to stand because of lack of stamina. Lewis basically put all eggs to one basket, and he proved to be right at the end. I think people are still underrating Lewis' heart, because he wasn't risking in many of his fights. But he didn't took many risks in the fights he was winning. When he needed to step up and fight/brawl, he wasn't afraid to do that (against Vitali, against Mercer).

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Boxing Writer wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Yes, but why did Wlad wait until the 12th - because he probably figured Fury wouldn't have time to hurt him and stop him.

Wlad's gunshyness was, and will again be his undoing, mark my words.

I've a feeling Fury might actually toy with him this time, I think he has Wlad's number.

Without the physical advantages he's enjoyed over every single opponent prior to the Fury fight, Wlad looks incredibly ordinary.

You are wrong. Wach was 4 cm taller and heavier than Wlad, McCline and Jefferson were the same height but heavier. Ray Austin and Tony Thompson were like 1 inch shoter, Carlos Monroe was the same height but heavier. Fury's style, movement, speed and tricks/feints made Wlad look ordinary, not Fury's size.

I'm pretty certain, that Fury is the first guy who had a longer reach.

I do agree however that it was Fury's movement that made the difference.

boxingya wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

boxingya wrote: I'm sensing a piss take there but ok.

No flies on you....

Do you have anything useful to add or is your contribution made up of references to a non-existent interview with a gay magazine? A 12 yr old should be proud of that but not a grown man.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

boxingya wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
No flies on you....

Do you have anything useful to add or is your contribution made up of references to a non-existent interview with a gay magazine? A 12 yr old should be proud of that but not a grown man.

Lighten up mate - jesus!

I'm pretty proud of it in any case.

boxingya wrote:

Tarkus wrote:I think Klitchko will be a bigger favorite when the fight nears. One win is not enough to prove to the world that you are better then a dominant champion. Fury was a huge underdog.

I think Klitschko can not win with jab and grab approach. To have a chance he needs to employ some of his pre Steward approaches, aggressive combination punching. Interesting thing is that Klitschko in the interview strongly indicated that in fact this is his plan.

I have Fury as a slight favorite like I did before the first fight. But I dont discount Klitschko win at all.

What interview was that if you don't mind me asking?

Tarkus wrote:

boxingya wrote:

Tarkus wrote:I think Klitchko will be a bigger favorite when the fight nears. One win is not enough to prove to the world that you are better then a dominant champion. Fury was a huge underdog.

I think Klitschko can not win with jab and grab approach. To have a chance he needs to employ some of his pre Steward approaches, aggressive combination punching. Interesting thing is that Klitschko in the interview strongly indicated that in fact this is his plan.

I have Fury as a slight favorite like I did before the first fight. But I dont discount Klitschko win at all.

What interview was that if you don't mind me asking?

Here it is, enjoy: http://www.championat.com/boxing/articl ... ichko.html

boxingya wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

boxingya wrote: Do you have anything useful to add or is your contribution made up of references to a non-existent interview with a gay magazine? A 12 yr old should be proud of that but not a grown man.

Lighten up mate - jesus!

I'm pretty proud of it in any case.

No you're right. I probably should lighten up. Fair point. I did want to read the actual interview though.

ALI wrote:It's Fury's fight to lose IMO. Wlad can plan any game plan he likes but he is gun shy and will revert to type when chin checked, Fury can then keep him in his pocket with jabs and feints.

Fury should aim to be more aggressive and look for the KO throughout, if he can wobble Wlad he will be there to be taken out.

rd350lc wrote:I don't know if anybody has mentioned this , but in the interview he did live of SPOTY i'm sure he said nothing can top that night when he won the heavyweight championship of the world and even if he lost his next fight nobody can take that away from him ,anybody else think that sounds like a man who doesn't sound overly confident of defending the title many times ? I also personally think if the first fight with Klit is anything to go by people won't be filling halls to watch ,might be a masterful boxing display , but as a spectacle as dull as dishwater .

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

rd350lc wrote:I don't know if anybody has mentioned this , but in the interview he did live of SPOTY i'm sure he said nothing can top that night when he won the heavyweight championship of the world and even if he lost his next fight nobody can take that away from him ,anybody else think that sounds like a man who doesn't sound overly confident of defending the title many times ? I also personally think if the first fight with Klit is anything to go by people won't be filling halls to watch ,might be a masterful boxing display , but as a spectacle as dull as dishwater .

Think he's just being honest.

I think he's probably achieved his goals in many ways - whatever he does from here is gravy really.

I don't think he'll be a dominant champ, if he wins the rematch, he still looks beatable by others, but he wouldn't be the first fighter to become much better after winning the belt - confidence is a great thing in sports.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

big lennox wrote:He didn't throw punches last time because he couldn't.

Incorrect my good man. He could have thrown punches, he might not have landed many of them, but he definitely could have thrown them.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

ALI wrote:It's Fury's fight to lose IMO. Wlad can plan any game plan he likes but he is gun shy and will revert to type when chin checked, Fury can then keep him in his pocket with jabs and feints.

Fury should aim to be more aggressive and look for the KO throughout, if he can wobble Wlad he will be there to be taken out.

Yes, agreed. The only concern is not to get too cocky and present a static target for too long. If Fury starts planting his feet, and get's tagged, Wlad undoubtedly still has the power to hurt him, and stop him. One big left hook and it's light's out.

ALI wrote:Well, most bookies have them level at 10/11, but Victor Chandler and William Hill both make Wlad a very slight favourite at 4/5 with Fury at 11/10.

This has surprised me, Fury has to be favoured in my book, even though it would be hard for Wlad to put in a worse performance than he did first time around i still think Fury is the one who can, and most likely will, improve on his performance.

Anyone else make Wlad favourite to win the rematch, or have it a 50/50 fight?