David Haye

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:07

tea wrote:I really think u guys r easily impressed by fight commentaries cos if anyone can point out to me whats so incredible that Haye has dun id be pleased to hear ,I really cant think what ur so amazed about,was it the 1 round mauling of Dowling or when he was sat on his arse by that lightheavy.....or maybe King Arthur who looked brilliant probably in his prime at this moment.U lot need to get real when him and Macca beat someone young,fresh and dangerous ill let u know.

Haye hits hard and fast and has good reflexes.... that cannot be denied... and I think that is enought to beat Thompson at this stage in Carls career... What do you think??????

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:11

As much as I love Thompson, Haye would slaughter him. I hope we don't get that fight. I don't mind seeing Thompson in more wars just not against punchers.

Matchfixer · Post by **Matchfixer** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:15

tea wrote:I really think u guys r easily impressed by fight commentaries cos if anyone can point out to me whats so incredible that Haye has dun id be pleased to hear ,I really cant think what ur so amazed about,was it the 1 round mauling of Dowling or when he was sat on his arse by that lightheavy.....or maybe King Arthur who looked brilliant probably in his prime at this moment.U lot need to get real when him and Macca beat someone young,fresh and dangerous ill let u know.

It's not a case of what he's done but what he's going to do.

Don't forget he was a world amateur silver medallist. Why not just sit back and admire his skills, power and personality and watch his success instead of looking on the negative side of things.

knockout artist · Post by **knockout artist** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:23

adamiw wrote:Septmeber 10th, probably against Carl Thompson

Carl dont want the fight. He says Haye is a novice, wheras he feels he's a world champ.

This wont happen in September

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:26

knockout artist wrote:
adamiw wrote:Septmeber 10th, probably against Carl Thompson
Carl dont want the fight. He says Haye is a novice, wheras he feels he's a world champ.

This wont happen in September

Good. I don't like these Enzo Maccarinelli-type fighters who go straight for a 'world' title without challenging for a British title first. It's a cop out. Let Haye fight Mark Hobson - then he can go for a 'world' title (if he wins).

Foggy · Post by **Foggy** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:28

Like most of yourselves i feel Haye will be to much for 'old' Carl but i was in Sheffield that night to watch Carl beat Rothman and the punch that finished the fight was a beauty - from where i was sat Rothmans face distorted when the punch landed - looked well nasty, if Carl can land one of these on haye we'll get to see if Haye is the real deal i.e. If he can take a shot, if he can the future looks bright for Mr Haye.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:41

bennie wrote:
knockout artist wrote:
adamiw wrote:Septmeber 10th, probably against Carl Thompson
Carl dont want the fight. He says Haye is a novice, wheras he feels he's a world champ.

This wont happen in September
Good. I don't like these Enzo Maccarinelli-type fighters who go straight for a 'world' title without challenging for a British title first. It's a cop out. Let Haye fight Mark Hobson - then he can go for a 'world' title (if he wins).

Hobson was Hayes 1st choice for the September fight, unfortunately Hobsons people wanted to have options on Haye which obviously put the fight to bed.

I want him to fight Hobson as much as the next man but unfortunately the TV politics rears its ugly head again.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:45

Again u guys missing the point ,i havent got anything negative to say about Haye but theres not much happened in the positive dept either .What im saying is lets see the young fresh fighters in together ,i mean u guys are talking Braithwaite n stuff,Idont think hell ever reach that level never mind a50/50 fight now some of u lot r saying.I mean tell me 1 british fighter ever who conquered the best yanks......uum.....exactly.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:53

Naseem Hamed (sure he lost to Barrera, big deal), Lennox Lewis, Nigel Benn.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:53

tea wrote:Again u guys missing the point ,i havent got anything negative to say about Haye but theres not much happened in the positive dept either .What im saying is lets see the young fresh fighters in together ,i mean u guys are talking Braithwaite n stuff,Idont think hell ever reach that level never mind a50/50 fight now some of u lot r saying.I mean tell me 1 british fighter ever who conquered the best yanks......uum.....exactly.

Naz, Lennox, Honeyghan, Benn... (braithwaite isnt a yank anyway)

anyway I hear what you are saying to a degree, Haye versus an old Carl Thompson isnt a fight i would look forward to and it would be much better putting Hobson/Big Mac/Haye all in together...

If Thompson catches Haye, be in no doubt David will be fast asleep...... but i dont think he will catch him

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:55

How can Hobson avoid Haye like jameswilson says,if the bbbc say Hobson fights Haye then they dont have a choice but u gotta understand that Hayes team r trying to cut corners but ask urself ....what do they bring to the table?Its not tv politics but common sense Hobson could possibly fight Thompson or have his fourth british and claim the belt or defend the commonwealth so wheres Hobsons problem...hes got plenty to offer any prospective challengers,so what does Haye offer Hobson?

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 Jul 2004, 08:56

On one hand I think Haye would win this fight, but on the other hand I think he's taking it too early.
Reason being, after an early KO over Carl, he'll find himself in the top ten - which is not a place he really needs to be, considering the poor level of opponents he's fought so far. Where would he go from there, more fights with journey men?
Ok Williams was a good name, but let's be honest, he looked like an extra from Night of the living dead in there.

Haye does look a massive puncher, and I think he's fast enough to take out the almost shot Carl very early. Put a good ref in there and I think it's stopped after a couple of early knockdowns, with Thompson protesting and safely off for a well earned retirement.

Haye just seems to be rushing things at the moment. He's the exact opposite of Audley in that respect.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:02

tea wrote:,so what does Haye offer Hobson?

Haye is the golden boy of the division domestically (ie) media coverage, amateur pedigree, etc etc

So I think it would be huge for Hobson to beat Haye, certainly more so than Haye to beat Hobson.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:04

Uthink Benn wouldve beaten Jones and Toney...no chance,Naz just didnt do it so i dont know why u mentioned him,and Lennox didnt fight a peak Tyson or Bowe so well never know.But realistically thats a pretty poor record of boxing domination from britain,and i wouldnt be relying on Haye to put the record straight for britain.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:07

tea wrote:How can Hobson avoid Haye like jameswilson says,if the bbbc say Hobson fights Haye then they dont have a choice but u gotta understand that Hayes team r trying to cut corners but ask urself ....what do they bring to the table?Its not tv politics but common sense Hobson could possibly fight Thompson or have his fourth british and claim the belt or defend the commonwealth so wheres Hobsons problem...hes got plenty to offer any prospective challengers,so what does Haye offer Hobson?

As far as I know the BBBoC havent made Haye the mandatory. Also should Haye win the IBO belt the BBBoC wont be able to make Haye the mandatory as World title holders cant be made mandatory. Haye on paper may not offer a lot (English title Holder, undefeated, all victories by KO) but I think most people know he is an exciting fighter, young and someone who many including myself believe can go and win recognised World titles.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:07

or, to put another spin on it, a peak Tyson & Bowe did not want tofight Lewis

I don't mind Haye ( hate this fight though as I say ) but I don't think he is as good as they make out. At his age he gets away with his technical failings. As he gets older and slower, he wont.

Slapsie

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:09

David Haye is clearly impatient but I don't have a problem with that. He doesn't want to end up like Ricky Hatton, a fighter who's 36-0 but already on the slide before he's even had a world title fight.

Haye is hugely confident when he steps through the ropes, backing up exactly what he says outside of them. Why wait? His head is so screwed on I don't think there's much out there to surprise him. If he loses he'll know exactly why. If there's one British fighter who looks capable of learning from his mistakes big time it's this lad.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:11

tea wrote:Uthink Benn wouldve beaten Jones and Toney...no chance,Naz just didnt do it so i dont know why u mentioned him,and Lennox didnt fight a peak Tyson or Bowe so well never know.But realistically thats a pretty poor record of boxing domination from britain,and i wouldnt be relying on Haye to put the record straight for britain.

yeah but the cruiserweight division isnt full of Jones, Toneys, Tysons or Bowes is it.... the division is weak as most decent fighters go up to Heavy chasing bigger money.

I dont think anyone is suggesting Haye is going to be a P4P legend but there is a possiblity he may become a genuine world champion in the next year or two

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:14

tea wrote:Uthink Benn wouldve beaten Jones and Toney...no chance,Naz just didnt do it so i dont know why u mentioned him,and Lennox didnt fight a peak Tyson or Bowe so well never know.But realistically thats a pretty poor record of boxing domination from britain,and i wouldnt be relying on Haye to put the record straight for britain.

So who were the top Yanks that Naseem didn't beat. And don't say Morales or Marquez, as neither of them are yanks, who did he avoid?

You cannot blame Lewis for those fights, nobody really wanted to make the fights, and HOlyfield wasn't interested until he had no other options.

I don't think for a moment Benn would have beaten Toney, but Benn did beat McClellan as a massive underdog, when everyone was assuming that McClellan was going to go on a bit superfight with RJJ.

Lewis beat Holy and Tyson, admittedly past their peaks, Mercer, Briggs, Grant, Ruddock, Golota were all at or near their repsective bests and that's a better list than Tyson ever beat.

Tyson's two best wins were against a terrified and underprepared Michael Spinks, and Larry Holmes who was coming off a two year layoff. Aside from that he beat a lot of washed up old men to get to the title, and hasn't beaten a top 10 contender since he fought Ruddock.

If you're going to criticise Lewis for avoiding the top men, you most certainly have to level that at Tyson and Bowe, Holyfield is the only one who fought them all.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:14

Slapsies got it bang on ,too many technical flaws for me ...not to mention the suspect chin ,lets not forget it let him down in the amateurs as well,never mind the upper echelons of the pros.JW if thats the best britain has had to offer im gonna keep buying my american tape collections.....its just a different level of operator.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:21

I have been the first to highlight his technical flaws, I agree that at some stage he needs to tighten up, as has been said his speed of thought and action right now allows him to get away with it.

However, the talent in the cruisers is paper-thin, look at the top eschelons of the division, Jean-Marc Mormeck, O Neill Bell, Wayne Braithwaite, none of these men look unbeatable, and Haye looks to be the greatest natural talent in the division.

tea · Post by **tea** » 12 Jul 2004, 09:49

A good fighter will read him he sets himself much too much... needs a lot more variety to his general boxing,a little bit like Macca in that dept ,seems a bit one dimentional.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:01

I get the impression though that Haye's quality of performance will step up to match the level of his opponent. Of course, could be wrong.

Seriously though, how many talented and experienced fighters are there in the cruiserweights, very few.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:10

I do think he can go a reasonable way, but I find some of his technique ( or lack thereof ) alarming. His hands are down by his knees and, he brings his jab back so slowly he leave himself wide open

At the moment he is getting away with it but, as he steps up in class he is going to have to change. Trouble is, if he doesn't know it at this stage, it is too late

Slapsie

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Jul 2004, 10:14

I did notice that his defence was tighter against Williams, and he also used a lot more head movement and moved around the ring a lot more. Prior to that Haye did a lot of posing interspersed with big combinations. Against Williams he convinced me that he has decent movement and good reflexes. He could certainly do with getting his hands up and keeping them there more often though.