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Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 01 Mar 2016, 14:34
by Nile4000
Definitely Greg Page, Bernard Taylor and Howard Davis Jr. definitely belong to this list.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 01 Mar 2016, 17:01
by davie
Counter-puncher wrote:Never committing to punches for fear of being countered is a fatal flaw for any pro boxer.
Being an utter shitebag is another
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 01 Mar 2016, 21:04
by tagjohnson
I would defend my choice of Corrie Sanders. Even in the Klitschko fight. He did win a huge upset but no he wasn't great shape and the win was because he fought a perfect fight not because he fought with any particular intensity or fire.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 02 Mar 2016, 16:24
by Bodyshot3
I would defend my choice of Corrie Sanders. Even in the Klitschko fight. He did win a huge upset but no he wasn't great shape and the win was because he fought a perfect fight not because he fought with any particular intensity or fire.
We're basically on the same page regarding Corrie mate
But I think Corrie was actually well-up for the WK fight, I am fairly sure that his trainer Harold Vorbrecht read him several chapters of the proverbial riot act and told Corrie that it was now or never (win this or doing something else) and that he'd better go out there and put it on Wlad.
The attitude as well as the tactics came together that night - and even a less than trim Corrie - had the talent to deliver.
Sanders was a hell of a talent who should have been pushed far harder but I think being a big, well-paid star in South Africa and still being able to have some fun/interests outside of the ring was always a problem.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 02 Mar 2016, 16:47
by tagjohnson
You're right. We are on the same page. :)
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 20:51
by jarvis
mimmy123 wrote:campfire wrote:tiny_acres wrote:
It wasn't much to Tim, just an awkward fighter
Honestly one of the most talented heavyweights I have seen. But lacked dedication
That's sad but true, The way he could judge a punch and its speed to turn his head at the exact time as a punch was launched at his chin was
unbelievable it would barely touch him or it would sail by catching thin air legend material for sure was Tim,He would be a great teacher
Maybe being under Don king took away his motivation. After all Im sure Witherspoons purse share would have been 20% and King 80%
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 20:54
by jarvis
One thing we must realize about boxing is that good fighters are always avoiding decent fighters by any means necessary
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 21:14
by keithmoonhangover
A lot of the names mentioned are contenders or world champions. Surely biggest unfulfilled potential should be guys that didn't get anywhere near the top.
I'll go for a British fighter, Allan Hall. He was and still is the best amateur boxer I have ever seen and I've seen some amazing amateur boxers. He won the ABA's twice, then signed for a top London promoter and spent the money on booze, girls and a bit of sniff, That ruined him, he didn't train properly and the rest is history.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 05 Mar 2016, 21:28
by SaadOffTheDeck
I agree with that. Jimmy Clark was very talented.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 06 Mar 2016, 16:15
by Bodyshot3
A lot of the names mentioned are contenders or world champions. Surely biggest unfulfilled potential should be guys that didn't get anywhere near the top.
I'll go for a British fighter, Allan Hall. He was and still is the best amateur boxer I have ever seen and I've seen some amazing amateur boxers. He won the ABA's twice, then signed for a top London promoter and spent the money on booze, girls and a bit of sniff, That ruined him, he didn't train properly and the rest is history.
Fair call and good observation Keith:TU:
The temptation is to focus on short-term champs or contenders who could/should have been even better.
Understandable really - because they'd shown talent - but then failed to deliver more. Which in turn is disappointing.
But there are those guys who had all the tools but actually never even got started or got fatally exposed early...often due to their own shortcomings. Sanders and Harrison did at least have their moments.
Hall is a prime example and Matt Thirwall - who was much talked about at the time and boxed beautifully in a vest - never made an impact.
Not sure whether Matt Ellis genuinely falls into the same category - maybe a PR job - but when he turned-over he was supposed to be a superstar.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 06 Mar 2016, 19:15
by keithmoonhangover
Bodyshot3 wrote:A lot of the names mentioned are contenders or world champions. Surely biggest unfulfilled potential should be guys that didn't get anywhere near the top.
I'll go for a British fighter, Allan Hall. He was and still is the best amateur boxer I have ever seen and I've seen some amazing amateur boxers. He won the ABA's twice, then signed for a top London promoter and spent the money on booze, girls and a bit of sniff, That ruined him, he didn't train properly and the rest is history.
Fair call and good observation Keith:TU:
The temptation is to focus on short-term champs or contenders who could/should have been even better.
Understandable really - because they'd shown talent - but then failed to deliver more. Which in turn is disappointing.
But there are those guys who had all the tools but actually never even got started or got fatally exposed early...often due to their own shortcomings. Sanders and Harrison did at least have their moments.
Hall is a prime example and Matt Thirwall - who was much talked about at the time and boxed beautifully in a vest - never made an impact.
Not sure whether Matt Ellis genuinely falls into the same category - maybe a PR job - but when he turned-over he was supposed to be a superstar.
Errol Christie is a classic example. He looked incredible in the gym and I mean world class.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 07:05
by PredatorHayds
Tony Jeffries I always thought would of done well as a Pro. Especially with his Olympic pedigree and fanbase.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 10:35
by man
ClivePatrickLyons wrote:Tim Witherspoon
that was my first pick too.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 10:38
by man
juan carlos gomez
the man had tons of talent but a horrible
work ethic. that is the worst thing. one
of the things i always admired about
floyd mayweather was his absolute
dedication to his sport. always in shape,
always smart.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 10:45
by man
tagjohnson wrote:I would defend my choice of Corrie Sanders. Even in the Klitschko fight. He did win a huge upset but no he wasn't great shape and the win was because he fought a perfect fight not because he fought with any particular intensity or fire.
i find sanders difficult to assess. yes
he seemed very solid at times and the
argument can be made that he could
have been great with more training.
on the other hand if guys decide never
to show up in shape that is part of who
they
really are.
to me unfulfilled potential means more
than having the theoretical ability, it
needs to be more concrete than that.
had sanders started out with a body
fat like wlad and faded then i'd say it
is unfulfilled potential, but that was
just not the case.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 08 Mar 2016, 14:03
by gregor
tagjohnson wrote:I would defend my choice of Corrie Sanders. Even in the Klitschko fight. He did win a huge upset but no he wasn't great shape and the win was because he fought a perfect fight not because he fought with any particular intensity or fire.
Good choice. I really wonder why he did not bother to train against Vitali in rematch. Vitali strategy against fast & hard-hitting southpaw was as bad as Wlad, but since he had much better chin Sander just slowly run out of gas and finally got KO'd... I guess with in shape Sanders the outcome could be different, especially as he was close to knocking down Vitali in the 1st round.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 08 Mar 2016, 15:02
by tagjohnson
Regarding the above point about fighters never getting started or fading early in their career; Leo Randolph, Howard Davis, Ronnie Harris, and Shawn O'Sullivan come to mind.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 09 Mar 2016, 15:03
by Bodyshot3
Good choice. I really wonder why he did not bother to train against Vitali in rematch. Vitali strategy against fast & hard-hitting southpaw was as bad as Wlad, but since he had much better chin Sander just slowly run out of gas and finally got KO'd... I guess with in shape Sanders the outcome could be different, especially as he was close to knocking down Vitali in the 1st round.
@gregor...I think some of it boiled down to Corrie being diffident about his boxing in general and by that point being long in the tooth as well.
As Tag and I have alluded to...heaps of natural talent but not much dedication.
Vorbrecht often had to put a bomb under him to get him to wake up and deliver.
In the Vitali fight he went back to his bad old ways - if I can't bomb the guy out early - I don't really have a plan B or C.
One thing I would disagree with you on is the Vitali-Wlad comparison. At that point of their respective careers, Vitali was the far more complete package. Better chin for sure, but he also knew how to pace a fight way better than Wlad and actually knew how to throw off the back foot and generally use his size to defend himself.
Vitali was also hugely pumped for the Sanders fight and wanted to right a wrong; Vitali did have a proper mean streak to his character and I think Sanders underestimated that he was facing an older brother looking to sort things out.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 11 Mar 2016, 13:08
by Syntax Error
Would it be unfair to nominate Herol Graham?
He was supremely gifted & did great things, be he lost every time he stepped up to world level.
He looked like a world beater, but never actually achieved that.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 12 Mar 2016, 16:17
by semtexreilly
Herol graham,herbie hide with better management, and Naz also
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 12 Mar 2016, 16:21
by palooka
Spencer Oliver was a fantastic talent and so exciting to watch, he suffered a very serious injury and had to retire but he had talent and skill in bucket loads.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 13:38
by Bodyshot3
Herol graham,herbie hide with better management, and Naz also
What Hide needed was a Shrink!
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 13:42
by palooka
Bodyshot3 wrote:Herol graham,herbie hide with better management, and Naz also
What Hide needed was a Shrink!
Hide was scarily good very young and I don't think he adjusted well to being young with money. He wasn't all bad, he looked after a young lad (might have been his adopted brother) who was really ill.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 14:01
by Bodyshot3
Hide was scarily good very young and I don't think he adjusted well to being young with money. He wasn't all bad, he looked after a young lad (might have been his adopted brother) who was really ill.
Agreed - Herbie was not evil, just someone who really needed good, strong counsel beyond the ring and probably to keep better company as well.
Read a piece on him going a few years back that said he was a very complex fella; sometimes angry and arrogant but also kind and vulnerable.
I also really liked him when he started out, very exciting fighter for a while.
Re: Biggest unfulfilled potential?
Posted: 13 Mar 2016, 14:06
by palooka
Bodyshot3 wrote:Hide was scarily good very young and I don't think he adjusted well to being young with money. He wasn't all bad, he looked after a young lad (might have been his adopted brother) who was really ill.
Agreed - Herbie was not evil, just someone who really needed good, strong counsel beyond the ring and probably to keep better company as well.
Read a piece on him going a few years back that said he was a very complex fella; sometimes angry and arrogant but also kind and vulnerable.
I also really liked him when he started out, very exciting fighter for a while.
I watched a video of him beating my friend, David Jules and Herbie was incredibly fast and so aggressive - if the weight limit for cruiser had been the same as now he'd have been an exceptional champion.