BoxRec

Tuan_Jim wrote: El Presidente was somewhere between Mercer and the 1994 Oliver McCall. He's far more well equipped than Hasim Rahman. To dismiss his chances vs Lewis defies logic.

Re Mercer and Rahman, I think Lewis was underprepared or didn't take their challenges seriously, something he wouldn't have done with the post-Tua/Byrd Ibeabuchi. The Lewis that turned up to face Tua was certainly a lot more focused and sharper than the version that fought Rahman first time.

johnswan1 wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote: El Presidente was somewhere between Mercer and the 1994 Oliver McCall. He's far more well equipped than Hasim Rahman. To dismiss his chances vs Lewis defies logic.

Re Mercer and Rahman, I think Lewis was underprepared or didn't take their challenges seriously, something he wouldn't have done with the post-Tua/Byrd Ibeabuchi. The Lewis that turned up to face Tua was certainly a lot more focused and sharper than the version that fought Rahman first time.

Well he definitely didn't prepare for Rahman, as he didn't even bother acclimatising to the altitude, however, I see no evidence he didn't take Mercer seriously - who knows though, fighters have off nights, the better ones fewer, but they have them nonetheless.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

Tuan_Jim wrote: El Presidente was somewhere between Mercer and the 1994 Oliver McCall. He's far more well equipped than Hasim Rahman. To dismiss his chances vs Lewis defies logic.

Re Mercer and Rahman, I think Lewis was underprepared or didn't take their challenges seriously, something he wouldn't have done with the post-Tua/Byrd Ibeabuchi. The Lewis that turned up to face Tua was certainly a lot more focused and sharper than the version that fought Rahman first time.

Well he definitely didn't prepare for Rahman, as he didn't even bother acclimatising to the altitude, however, I see no evidence he didn't take Mercer seriously - who knows though, fighters have off nights, the better ones fewer, but they have them nonetheless.

He took Ray Mercer very seriously. Mercer had come off a war with Evander Holyfield and Lewis knew what he was up against. Lewis was in the process of repairing his image and this was the big MSG/HBO showcase that would prove he, not Tyson or Bowe, was the top man in the division. He had even guaranteed that he would be the first man to stop Mercer.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:
Re Mercer and Rahman, I think Lewis was underprepared or didn't take their challenges seriously, something he wouldn't have done with the post-Tua/Byrd Ibeabuchi. The Lewis that turned up to face Tua was certainly a lot more focused and sharper than the version that fought Rahman first time.

Well he definitely didn't prepare for Rahman, as he didn't even bother acclimatising to the altitude, however, I see no evidence he didn't take Mercer seriously - who knows though, fighters have off nights, the better ones fewer, but they have them nonetheless.

He took Ray Mercer very seriously. Mercer had come off a war with Evander Holyfield and Lewis knew what he was up against. Lewis was in the process of repairing his image and this was the big MSG/HBO showcase that would prove he, not Tyson or Bowe, was the top man in the division. He had even guaranteed that he would be the first man to stop Mercer.

Yes, that's what I thought, he'd have been made to dismiss mercer out of hand. Mercer was an animal in his prime.

With regards to mentall illness - just because you have a mental illness doesn't abscond you from any kind of responsibility.

All serial killers are or should be classed mentally ill, but it doesn't mean they weren't evil, nasty pudenda either.

And there are many kinds of mental illnesses, most benign as far as danger to other is concerned, but, not all mental illnesses are equal as they say!

reggaereggae wrote:With regards to mentall illness - just because you have a mental illness doesn't abscond you from any kind of responsibility.

All serial killers are or should be classed mentally ill, but it doesn't mean they weren't evil, nasty pudenda either.

And there are many kinds of mental illnesses, most benign as far as danger to other is concerned, but, not all mental illnesses are equal as they say!

I agree with your general point (and agree regarding Ibeabutchi) but serial killers on the whole don't tend to suffer from a mental illness in the sense of having schizophrenia or bipolar which often leads to psychosis and thus peoples judgement being clouded ie if they think they've got a demon chasing them or some shit like that. They suffer from differing forms of personality disorders like Antisocial personality disorder, etc. It's kind of a grey area. They're definietly not normal but at the same time they're aware that their behaviour is wrong but still do it.

lefty wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:With regards to mentall illness - just because you have a mental illness doesn't abscond you from any kind of responsibility.

All serial killers are or should be classed mentally ill, but it doesn't mean they weren't evil, nasty pudenda either.

And there are many kinds of mental illnesses, most benign as far as danger to other is concerned, but, not all mental illnesses are equal as they say!

I agree with your general point (and agree regarding Ibeabutchi) but serial killers on the whole don't tend to suffer from a mental illness in the sense of having schizophrenia or bipolar which often leads to psychosis and thus peoples judgement being clouded ie if they think they've got a demon chasing them or some poo like that. They suffer from differing forms of personality disorders like Antisocial personality disorder, etc. It's kind of a grey area. They're definietly not normal but at the same time they're aware that their behaviour is wrong but still do it.

Yeah I agree. I think the definition of what is and isn't a mental illness is, as you say, a difficult grey area. One could argue that psychopathy is a mental illness in itself. Our knowledge of mental illness and the brain is at a very immature level too, given the complexity of the brain.

reggaereggae wrote:

lefty wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:With regards to mentall illness - just because you have a mental illness doesn't abscond you from any kind of responsibility.

All serial killers are or should be classed mentally ill, but it doesn't mean they weren't evil, nasty pudenda either.

And there are many kinds of mental illnesses, most benign as far as danger to other is concerned, but, not all mental illnesses are equal as they say!

I agree with your general point (and agree regarding Ibeabutchi) but serial killers on the whole don't tend to suffer from a mental illness in the sense of having schizophrenia or bipolar which often leads to psychosis and thus peoples judgement being clouded ie if they think they've got a demon chasing them or some poo like that. They suffer from differing forms of personality disorders like Antisocial personality disorder, etc. It's kind of a grey area. They're definietly not normal but at the same time they're aware that their behaviour is wrong but still do it.

Yeah I agree. I think the definition of what is and isn't a mental illness is, as you say, a difficult grey area. One could argue that psychopathy is a mental illness in itself. Our knowledge of mental illness and the brain is at a very immature level too, given the complexity of the brain.

Yeah can't argue with any of that. There's probably a lot of offenders in prison who should be in a secure hospital instead but it probably costs too much.

lefty wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:

lefty wrote: I agree with your general point (and agree regarding Ibeabutchi) but serial killers on the whole don't tend to suffer from a mental illness in the sense of having schizophrenia or bipolar which often leads to psychosis and thus peoples judgement being clouded ie if they think they've got a demon chasing them or some poo like that. They suffer from differing forms of personality disorders like Antisocial personality disorder, etc. It's kind of a grey area. They're definietly not normal but at the same time they're aware that their behaviour is wrong but still do it.

Yeah I agree. I think the definition of what is and isn't a mental illness is, as you say, a difficult grey area. One could argue that psychopathy is a mental illness in itself. Our knowledge of mental illness and the brain is at a very immature level too, given the complexity of the brain.

Yeah can't argue with any of that. There's probably a lot of offenders in prison who should be in a secure hospital instead but it probably costs too much.

Ultimately, my conclusion is: don't let Ike near any hookers!

Metal Fingers wrote:No one is downgrading those wins, but he completely went batshit crazy and if he struggled to keep it together for long enough to bang a call girl how would he cope with the build-up to a fight with someone as calm as Lewis or, for that matter, Klitschko?

Vasyl Lomachenko
David Reid
Erislandy Lara
Carl Frampton
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Demetrius Andrade

Are some of the people who took on top 20 opposition within 20 and won.

Note that not one of them is a heavyweight, which is what I asked for, and which supports my contention that what Ike did is unheard of in modern heavyweight boxing. Like Mike Tyson, irrespective of the idiots he attracts, the quality is undeniable.

What did Ibeabuchi say? "Ooga booga. I rape you.... I dindu nuffins!"

reggaereggae wrote:

lefty wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:
Yeah I agree. I think the definition of what is and isn't a mental illness is, as you say, a difficult grey area. One could argue that psychopathy is a mental illness in itself. Our knowledge of mental illness and the brain is at a very immature level too, given the complexity of the brain.

Yeah can't argue with any of that. There's probably a lot of offenders in prison who should be in a secure hospital instead but it probably costs too much.

Ultimately, my conclusion is: don't let Ike near any hookers!

Ibeabuchi is crazy (no pun intended) if he thinks he can come back after a 17 year layoff, of which 15 of those years he was banged up, with those man tits & make waves in the HW division.

The division is starting to look a little bit healthier than it did about five years ago, so he's coming back at the wrong time.

He needs to let sleeping dogs lie & get on with his life.

He peed away his chance of glory back in 1999 & that was an awful long time ago now.

Can't think of too many pro fighters who have come back after 17 years. But at 43, the calendar doesn't necessarily say he is too old.

Will watch with interest.

I remember back in mid 2000s there wasnt a week when someone didnt post about Ike, blindly believing he'd be released and save the HW division. Fast forward 10 years and some still believe he could comeback.

He's 43 and hasnt boxed in 17 years. At best he'll be absolute shite.

Wales wrote:I remember back in mid 2000s there wasnt a week when someone didnt post about Ike, blindly believing he'd be released and save the HW division. Fast forward 10 years and some still believe he could comeback.

He's 43 and hasnt boxed in 17 years. At best he'll be absolute shite.

I remember that era and yes, he was utterly deified by online boxing forums. But again, I ask anyone to name me one heavyweight prospect in the last 20 years who, in his first 20 fights, went through two of the top and most avoided contenders in the world.

What Ike did is, unfortunately, extraordinary in modern heavyweight boxing. That he did it in such a thrilling manner is one of the reasons why he looms in the imagination.

he certainly seems to 'loom' in your imagination, Jim.

Tuan_Jim wrote:

Metal Fingers wrote:No one is downgrading those wins, but he completely went batshit crazy and if he struggled to keep it together for long enough to bang a call girl how would he cope with the build-up to a fight with someone as calm as Lewis or, for that matter, Klitschko?

Vasyl Lomachenko
David Reid
Erislandy Lara
Carl Frampton
Guillermo Rigondeaux
Demetrius Andrade

Are some of the people who took on top 20 opposition within 20 and won.

Note that not one of them is a heavyweight, which is what I asked for, and which supports my contention that what Ike did is unheard of in modern heavyweight boxing. Like Mike Tyson, irrespective of the idiots he attracts, the quality is undeniable.

I still wait for someone to name a prospect who went through two of the world's top contenders in his first 20 fights in the last 20 years.
Tuan_Jim circa 2016

Counter-puncher wrote:he certainly seems to 'loom' in your imagination, Jim.

He does, unfortunately!

Any word on this guy? Anyone?

I'm amazed at the fascination of people with him.

Just because of the destruction of Chris Byrd. Just off one fight!

I had "the president" beating Tua in their slugfest, but I seem to be in a vast minority.

Lewis wasn't the champ everybody wanted, because of his aloofness and his ability to fight big and win in dull fashion and sometimes blow a bit over the twelve rounds- so I can see how people got excited back then about Ibeabuchi. OK, Ike had that Tyson bad man aura, and some feel he resembled Liston, making him irresistible...


But still? He didn't have it mentally to be champ or to have a semblence of an organised personal or professional life. He'd have imploded in the ring eventually.

Guys a fornicating rapist ,,and the way he talks , and acts prior too his conviction was a bit off to say the least ,If he's mental and got a problem , which makes him anti social and a rapist ,

Then the fornicator needs putting down thats what we do with mad dogs

If he's completly sane and not mental , he's an evil bastard ,and still needs putting down ,, SIMPLE .... Unfortunatly i don't subscribe to the, Oh he was a boxer so all must be forgiven theory

I don't know a thing about the guy outside of the ring. I know he can throw though, so when I heard he was making a comeback this year, I was wondering as to when and whom it will be against.

Oh well sounds like he's a loser anyway. I don't care what he gets up to outside of the ring but life outside of the ring is important as we know to becoming the man inside of it.

coneye wrote:Guys a effing rapist ,,and the way he talks , and acts prior too his conviction was a bit off to say the least ,If he's mental and got a problem , which makes him anti social and a rapist ,

Then the fornicator needs putting down thats what we do with mad dogs

If he's completly sane and not mental , he's an evil bastard ,and still needs putting down ,, SIMPLE .... Unfortunatly i don't subscribe to the, Oh he was a boxer so all must be forgiven theory

So all mentally ill people should be put down?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

coneye wrote:Guys a effing rapist ,,and the way he talks , and acts prior too his conviction was a bit off to say the least ,If he's mental and got a problem , which makes him anti social and a rapist ,

Then the fornicator needs putting down thats what we do with mad dogs

If he's completly sane and not mental , he's an evil bastard ,and still needs putting down ,, SIMPLE .... Unfortunatly i don't subscribe to the, Oh he was a boxer so all must be forgiven theory

So all mentally ill people should be put down?

Mentaly ill or challenged and harmless NO ,, Mental , Mentaly ill , insane , call it what you will who run around raping and destroying the lifes of others . YES and whats more they want someone who would tie the knot , look no further , give me a shout ,, and all the bleeding heart liberals who say i'm wrong ,, well i think you would change your mind when some nutcase , rapes , or murders your wife , mother , or god forbid daughter .