How can anyone believe that Joshua beats Fury?

[Bard of Boxrec]

I'm done, no mater how much I back up what I'm saying you guys are ust going to keep going "Nuh-uh" no tactical insights, nothing to back it up. I like talking with people I disagree with but you guys are tedious. I don't think I know it all, but atleast I put in a little effort to make my case, I cited specific fights, used gifs. Even looking at footage of something happening (Wlad's body mvement) you still denied it. Just a pointless nonargument.

Your position is untenable. I cannot wait for people like you to be proved wrong when these guys finally fight. It's going to be so sweet.

[broadhurst]

I don't see how people say Fury's chin is a weakness.

He has a pretty sold chin imo. Yes he was floored by Cunningham and Pajkic but most heavyweight greats have been down in their career. Shots you don't see coming, sweet shots on the button, off balance shots etc. The way Fury used to fight was turning it into a 50-50 brawl which left him open. The difference is the last 2 years he's completely restyled as a fighter to make use of his extreme height and reach and make sure he isn't as wild and open as he used to be. If you were training to fight him I don't think anyone should be looking at old videos.

He's taken plenty of big shots flush from the likes of Chisora, Mcdermott, Abbell (big KO'er). He took a few from Klitsckho without trouble. It's like saying Whyte has a bad chin because he got floored or even Mike Tyson, Lewis etc.

Joshua has literally taken 1 punch in his career to the head and he was shaken. Took a few body shots and he was very slow for the next round so he has questions on how he can take a punch. He's a powerhouse and can certainly knock anyone out given half a chance, however styles make fights and if he was to fight Fury or Klitschko this year, I'm not so sure either would let him get in range so easily as he has been allowed to do.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'm done, no mater how much I back up what I'm saying you guys are ust going to keep going "Nuh-uh" no tactical insights, nothing to back it up. I like talking with people I disagree with but you guys are tedious. I don't think I know it all, but atleast I put in a little effort to make my case, I cited specific fights, used gifs. Even looking at footage of something happening (Wlad's body mvement) you still denied it. Just a pointless nonargument.

[BitPlayer]

I'm done, no mater how much I back up what I'm saying you guys are ust going to keep going "Nuh-uh" no tactical insights, nothing to back it up. I like talking with people I disagree with but you guys are tedious. I don't think I know it all, but atleast I put in a little effort to make my case, I cited specific fights, used gifs. Even looking at footage of something happening (Wlad's body mvement) you still denied it. Just a pointless nonargument.

Your position is untenable. I cannot wait for people like you to be proved wrong when these guys finally fight. It's going to be so sweet.

If that's the case then show it. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That was a brief "done". As predictable as Joshua squashing fury.

[BitPlayer]

That was a brief "done". As predictable as Joshua squashing fury.

I only meant done actually making a case, putting a little effort and thought in. All I've done is posted to clarify, mostly so you can claim I ran away and got pwned with your fearsome "nuh-uh".

[SaadOffTheDeck]

[Taki...]

Hard to understand why some people imagine that Fury is HW version of Mayweather off the back of beating Wlad.
Fury's size and movement took Wlad completely out of his comfort zone. No reach advantage for the jab and no size advantage for the grab.
Most guys 6'6"+ tend to be stiff, slow and often not natural movers and punchers. Whilst Fury isn't exactly Ali he's slicker smoother than most other fighters from the land of the giants.
Would Joshua back-off the Fury jab?
Would he throw 5 or 6 power shots a round?
Would jab and grab be his plan A?
Would he look every inch a 40 year old man by nights end?
The variables are infinite, the outcome utterly speculative.

[Badhusker]

I think folks just need to re-watch Fury vs Wlad again. Fury will get taken out by Joshua, Wilder, or Ortiz...maybe Parker too. He doesn't throw straight punches that will keep guys off him. He has a sloppy weak jab, and his feints won't matter against an aggressive guy. Remember, he beat a badly faded almost 40 yr old Wlad. I wouldn't be surprised if Wlad beats him in the rematch if he can pull the trigger either!

In my opinion, Wilder, Joshua, and Ortiz are the best heavies now, and Povetkin will sub for Wilder if he beats him. I would love to see Povetkin vs Parker, win or lose vs Wilder....but Parker winning isn't a lock either.

Joshua, even though he won is still a bit untested, but really think he is a force to be reckoned with. Martin was unknown, but I was dumb enough to bite predicting the upset. Just goes to show anyone can look great against poor opposition.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I'm done, no mater how much I back up what I'm saying you guys are ust going to keep going "Nuh-uh" no tactical insights, nothing to back it up. I like talking with people I disagree with but you guys are tedious. I don't think I know it all, but atleast I put in a little effort to make my case, I cited specific fights, used gifs. Even looking at footage of something happening (Wlad's body mvement) you still denied it. Just a pointless nonargument.

Your position is untenable. I cannot wait for people like you to be proved wrong when these guys finally fight. It's going to be so sweet.

If that's the case then show it. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

What more needs to be said? I could copy and paste what I wrote before maybe. Your gif didn't say anything at all. Posting a gif showing Fury dancing away from Wlad doesn't serve the purpose of equipping Wlad with the skill of body movement. I can move my upper body too. It doesn't mean it's a relevant part of my skill set in a boxing ring.

This situation is just another 'Kovalev/Cleverly on the British scene', splitting the forum down the middle when there really is only one winner. Just a crystal ball really. You'll have the pro Fury folks 'But looks, he beat the heavyweight champion, and, like, totally MADE HIM THROW NO PUNCHES!', you have the sage chin-stroking fence sitters who insist nobody is equipped to make an accurate prediction because Joshua is 'STILL SO UNTESTED!' (lol) and you have the pro-Joshua crew, who actually use their eyes to understand how the style matchup, power, volume of Joshua means demise for the sloppy and chinny Fury, who *SHOCK* hasn't turned into a defensive wonder despite his murderer's row opposition of Hammer, Abell and shot Chisora, followed by a man who wouldn't fight.

I'm going to make so much money.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I can't wait to resurrect this thread after Joshua walks through Fury.

[Ricky_]

Joshua is untested though.

Thus far his career consists of fighting only 1 live opponent, and even Whyte had his limitations both physically and ability. The rest have been tomato cans that came to get the Hearn dollar while limiting the damage. It was only a couple of fights ago that Joshua was fighting Cornish. Charles Martin a couple of fights ago was facing Tom Dallas.

The Joshua hype is all a bit David Price. He may keep KOing guys for now. He could even do Fury in a round. But someone is going to tag AJ sooner or later and he'll be flat on his back. Beyond his bodybuilder power he's bang average.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Joshua is untested though.

Thus far his career consists of fighting only 1 live opponent, and even Whyte had his limitations both physically and ability. The rest have been tomato cans that came to get the Hearn dollar while limiting the damage. It was only a couple of fights ago that Joshua was fighting Cornish. Charles Martin a couple of fights ago was facing Tom Dallas.

The Joshua hype is all a bit David Price. He may keep KOing guys for now. He could even do Fury in a round. But someone is going to tag AJ sooner or later and he'll be flat on his back. Beyond his bodybuilder power he's bang average.

The 'untested' brigade are very inflexible. They subscribe to this odd notion that automatically 15 fights=Novice! without accounting for specific situations. 'Careful, Linear Progression Until Proven World Credentials' in the heavyweight division is a myth. In a division this shallow, you can burst onto the scene and belong there. That doesn't stop the sage chin-strokers who, in order to be able to trust their own eyes, have to see these incremental improvements despite the situation categorically not existing at heavyweight. It's like when Fury beat Wlad. What on earth had Fury done to make people think he was capable of beating Klitschko? Beat Christian Hammer? Lose to John McDonut? Get rocked by Chisora in their first fight? Dropped by Cunningham? Noone was picking him. But then he does win, and before long, people are saying exactly the same thing about Joshua's chances vs him, even when Joshua has shown exactly none of those deficiencies going in. They don't learn

Of course, it is somewhat a subjective assessment of how much ringtime is enough and versus who, but in my mind Joshua has already proved more than enough to tell us everything we need to know about what happens vs Fury. He passed the chin test vs Whyte and proved he can come back from adversity. The fact that he's proven too good for everyone else shouldn't work to his detriment.

[Nightmare Roy]

The truth of the matter is this, he's beat one good fighter in Dillion Whyte and he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

[Bard of Boxrec]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

I would pick Whyte over Cunningham and also over the version of Chisora Fury fought first time out. Any other sparkling wins on Fury's resume that made people think he would beat Wlad? No? Didn't think so.

[Nightmare Roy]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

...but he did step in with Vlad.

[Bard of Boxrec]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

...but he did step in with Vlad.

That part is irrelevant to my point, I'm taking about the people who consider it 'too soon' to predict Joshua winning when Fury didn't exactly have extensive evidence to support a claim he would beat Wlad, and now some find it so outrageous for people to be picking Joshua over Fury when Josh has shown none of the deficiencies that Fury did before he faced Wlad.

For the 'untested' crew, you're not going to learn anything more about Joshua in the time between now and fighting Fury because he's going to be dispatching everyone very quickly indeed. So I guess you'll never be equipped to make a decision about this fight :(

[Ricky_]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

I would pick Whyte over Cunningham and also over the version of Chisora Fury fought first time out. Any other sparkling wins on Fury's resume that made people think he would beat Wlad? No? Didn't think so.

Whyte hir him clean and gave him the bambi legs. Joshua's power came through for him in the end but if there's 1 thing i've learned watching the fight it's power only gets you so far. In the HW it gets you even further but lacking in other areas always catches up with you.

Joshua has great power, put him there with Golovkin or Kovalev for p4p punch power, but the rest of his skillset isn't as polished.

He's ecxiting though, can't wait to see him in a real fighf.

[BitPlayer]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

I would pick Whyte over Cunningham and also over the version of Chisora Fury fought first time out. Any other sparkling wins on Fury's resume that made people think he would beat Wlad? No? Didn't think so.

Yes you declaring Chisora to be shot after the best streak of wins in his career makes him worse than Whyte. Despite Whyte's best win being a past it low level pumped up cruiser weight, but nah you're right beating a guy like that really puts you a level above being a cruiser weight champion.

[Bard of Boxrec]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

I would pick Whyte over Cunningham and also over the version of Chisora Fury fought first time out. Any other sparkling wins on Fury's resume that made people think he would beat Wlad? No? Didn't think so.

Yes you declaring Chisora to be shot after the best streak of wins in his career makes him worse than Whyte. Despite Whyte's best win being a past it low level pumped up cruiser weight, but nah you're right beating a guy like that really puts you a level above being a cruiser weight champion.

Sometimes you have to use your eyes and common sense as well as obsessing over records. Whyte clearly knew what he was doing in there. If he hasn't been wrecked by Joshua permanently, he will go on to be a contender in the division.

[Bard of Boxrec]

he came close to getting knocked out in that fight.

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

I would pick Whyte over Cunningham and also over the version of Chisora Fury fought first time out. Any other sparkling wins on Fury's resume that made people think he would beat Wlad? No? Didn't think so.

Whyte hir him clean and gave him the bambi legs. Joshua's power came through for him in the end but if there's 1 thing i've learned watching the fight it's power only gets you so far. In the HW it gets you even further but lacking in other areas always catches up with you.

Joshua has great power, put him there with Golovkin or Kovalev for p4p punch power, but the rest of his skillset isn't as polished.

He's ecxiting though, can't wait to see him in a real fighf.

What's the basis for him 'lacking in other areas'? The fact that he got hit on the chin by Whyte? Damn, Joshua is up against it if the fans aren't permitting him to take punches.

Not saying it's you, but some people seem to be anti-Joshua based solely on their dislike of the hype around him, let's call them the 'wanting the hype train to be derailed' crew. Please. Forget the hype and assess a fighter on what they bring to the table. Not what their backers say about him.

[BitPlayer]

No. No he didn't. Also, Whyte is at least as good as Fury's best win prior to stepping in with Wlad.

I would pick Whyte over Cunningham and also over the version of Chisora Fury fought first time out. Any other sparkling wins on Fury's resume that made people think he would beat Wlad? No? Didn't think so.

Yes you declaring Chisora to be shot after the best streak of wins in his career makes him worse than Whyte. Despite Whyte's best win being a past it low level pumped up cruiser weight, but nah you're right beating a guy like that really puts you a level above being a cruiser weight champion.

Sometimes you have to use your eyes and common sense as well as obsessing over records. Whyte clearly knew what he was doing in there. If he hasn't been wrecked by Joshua permanently, he will go on to be a contender in the division.

Yeah Whyte could become a contender, and I hope he does, but Chisora was a contender already, in fact he was WBO's No.1 contender.

[Tony1244]

""How can anyone believe that Joshua beats Fury?""

Very easily after watching Saturday's fight. Joshua may be able to beat anyone.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Yes you declaring Chisora to be shot after the best streak of wins in his career makes him worse than Whyte. Despite Whyte's best win being a past it low level pumped up cruiser weight, but nah you're right beating a guy like that really puts you a level above being a cruiser weight champion.

Sometimes you have to use your eyes and common sense as well as obsessing over records. Whyte clearly knew what he was doing in there. If he hasn't been wrecked by Joshua permanently, he will go on to be a contender in the division.

Yeah Whyte could become a contender, and I hope he does, but Chisora was a contender already, in fact he was WBO's No.1 contender.

Who cares. He was past his best, disinterested. Whyte would be the best win on Fury's record after Wlad.

[Ricky_]

What's the basis for him 'lacking in other areas'? The fact that he got hit on the chin by Whyte? Damn, Joshua is up against it if the fans aren't permitting him to take punches.

Not saying it's you, but some people seem to be anti-Joshua based solely on their dislike of the hype around him, let's call them the 'wanting the hype train to be derailed' crew. Please. Forget the hype and assess a fighter on what they bring to the table. Not what their backers say about him.

Things like footwork, lateral movement, etc. I understand that he's a massive burly heavyweight, and the game is different up there, so it's not expected of him to float around the ring like Floyd, but imo if you took away AJ's punching power you're left with a below-average boxer.

I'm not saying i think he's poor in any particular area, he go the nod for gold in the olympics and his short amateer background has installed good fundamentals, but minus his power i don't see anything special. I don't see a Cus D'Amato catskill peekaboo movement like Floyd Patterson or Tyson. I even see a clumsy-but-effective elusiveness that Fury has tailored to his game. I don't see a signature left lead like Frazier. Honestly I just see a guy with a wicked 1-2 that's made a dynamite highlight reel, but so far he's 1&0 imo vs Whyte and would have been out of there in the 2nd had he been up against a better finisher like KingKong Ortiz, Povetkin or Klitchko.

Time is on AJ's side however, but my gut instinct and opinion is that, like all power punchers, he'll find himself in against a counter-puncher with a solid chin and will be exposed as a hypejob.